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Inventory UI from Project Update 20

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In the post you mention building up from gamepad controls to ensure the game plays on both PC and consoles. I know those are screenshots taken on the PC version with gamepad controls shown but I just wanted point out that as is, with this screenshot fullscreen on a TV, the hero and tower stats as well as the level and hero requirement are hard to read. I'm also aware that I'm saying this before the BETA has even taken place but since the beta is gonna be PC only and we won't get the chance to test it on consoles, I wanted to point this out early.

Please ensure that the game doesn't just feels go on a gamepad but is also very easy to see/read at any given time. Bad "visibility" in a console game can really ruin a game for me.

When I went back to DD2 on ps4 a few months ago, I saw a couple things that were still very hard, even near impossible, to read on a TV from a decent distance.
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I just wanted to point this out, that's all. :) I was really happy to see that most of the gear stats from DD1 seem to still be present!

Edited by Windex
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1 hour ago, Windex said:

Please ensure that the game doesn't just feels go on a gamepad but is also very easy to see/read at any given time. Bad "visibility" in a console game can really ruin a game for me.

"feels good"?

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I am too a little concerned about readability for consoles and msotly for the Switch in handheld mode. With all the stats from Dd1 returning I do wonder just how easy it will be to tell the differences in equipment for those using a Switch in handheld mode with such a small screen to work with. I know it might sound rather petty to focus on the Switch, but this has been my main concern since they announced they would be including it for release. With Dd2 as you mention many of the text boxes are almost impossible to read on a 55" screen I can only imagine trying to read them on a Switch - magnifying glass anyone??? With the pictures we saw it also seems that the equipment screen took up the full screen so does that mean that it is impoissible to tell dur8ing waves if the gear will be worth using or not? With the return (apparently) of build tiimers it would mean that we would have t either pick up everything and then check at the end of the map or perhaps loot will remain on the floor until the end they we go around checking all the loot? Hvaing the stats displayed as they are would make it very difficult to check during combat on how good the item was. I understand that they wanted to redesign the equipment to display the stats clearly but I actually feel the original display was easier to read quickly.

One other thing I am curious about since they displayed a weapon is are we going to need/get elemental resists like DD1 and will the differences in stats between Insane and NM also be implemented? (resists being nerfed in Nm, Hp being increased but Hero damage nerfed etc)

maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by dizzydiana
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Some of the things that i had an issue with in DD1 was being able to accurately compare gear, as well as actually leveling gear up - PS3 mind you.

All gear leveling was one level at a time, a lot of button pushing, so i really hope DD2's system of instant max comes back.

As to comparisons, my issue was that you can level gear up, but when you compare that leveled up gear to something on the ground, it compared a level 1 item against a level 50 item... Neither one adjusts to the level of the other...so htf are you supposed to compare them? I always desperately wanted the gear to show their full range of stats, so you know if that new piece is better without having to memorize level 1 stats or level gear up, one notch at a time, just to see. Again DD2 had a decent fix to this, but we are not getting DD2, so i just hope some DD1 issues are not carried over.

I also was not a big fan of having to constantly match all armor types. I mean, i loved the extra bonus when it all worked out, but keeping track of 75% armor sets, and naming them in a way that makes it clear what that gear was for - got exhausting, quick. I was super glad DD2 simplified this process some. No more leather versus pristine checking...whew...

I'm anxious to see the new system in play...

Edited by Jaws_420
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I think the interface they have shown looks way too clinical and lacks any of the Dungeon Defenders charm.

Readability is obviously the main focus on UI design, but does it have to look so... dare I say it... Fortnite?

The example of the original menu that dizzydiana posted is a good example of what I mean. It fits well with the tavern theme and personally, seems more readable, if not a little messy about it.

Using icons to represent something makes so much more sense than using too much text when this game is also to work on a smaller screen, as they can be scaled easier for readability and is exactly why icons for applications are used. Now I know the white dots represent icons, but why have the label text at all? Make the icons bigger and have tooltips on highlight or somewhere to tell you what they stand for. It wont be long until we know them by the icon anyway, so the labels just waste space.

Or better yet, have the option to hide the labels and make the icons bigger in a detailed or simple mode. So you can rid them once you are comfortable with them.

It also seemed a lot more like a menu that could be used 'on the go', where as this one we have seen looks like you need to sit down and look through it in its own dedicated area.

 

Now I'm aware all of this is subject to change. But I do hope a little more consideration is put into the speed of which you can use this menu on a small screen, and maybe the theme or style of it.

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19 minutes ago, LemonyNebula said:

I think the interface they have shown looks way too clinical and lacks any of the Dungeon Defenders charm.

Readability is obviously the main focus on UI design, but does it have to look so... dare I say it... Fortnite?

Yeah, it really gives me the "contemporary" vibe rather than Medieval Fantasy theme as Dungeon Defenders should be. Definitely not going to be something that I'm going to enjoy looking.

Though If they must, why not have a setting to show this current interface to be the 'lite" version for preference or lower spec devices and have the main version of the interface go all out with medieval fantasy nitty-gritty.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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37 minutes ago, LemonyNebula said:

I think the interface they have shown looks way too clinical and lacks any of the Dungeon Defenders charm.

Readability is obviously the main focus on UI design, but does it have to look so... dare I say it... Fortnite?

 

personally I'm getting more of a Destiny vibe than Fortnite. I still struggle to see how the new Ui is easier to read than the old style with icons. it certainly doesnt seem that a passing glane will be anywhere enough to see if its a worthwhile thing to pick up or not. I see myself frantically running around picking up everything then going back to tavern to actually compare the drops. When they announced a Ui specialist had been hired I was hoping for something rather special not some Destiny clone, heck even the colour for legendary seems to come right out of the Destiny play book for Exotics. I have to agree it does look rather clinical when you consider Dd is supposed to be a little dare I say cartoony, eh maybe I'm being too harsh and I'll get used to it- shrug.

Edited by dizzydiana
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2 minutes ago, dizzydiana said:

eh maybe I'm being too harsh

Yeah I feel kind of bad mentioning things like I'm being picky, especially before the Beta is even out. But feedback usually helps.

I hope they do theme it better and maybe even that this menu is a different menu to the one that pops up mid game for speed.

They did say " All of it together, here’s what you can expect to see when playing solo " so there is a chance there is a different menu that pauses in solo games, than the one when the action continues in a group. Unsure.

It's all still in progress I guess.

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I did find the look of the UI very bland, though I'm hoping that was just an extremely early version and will be iterated upon prior to the official launch. To get it into our hands for beta and have something functional I would be okay with but in a game where you'll be looking at your inventory a lot, it is pretty imperative that it feels & looks good as well. 

I'll not raise a fuss about it too much because I haven't actually seen, or gotten to participate in any gameplay yet, and we know so little it's hard for me to be too bent out of shape. 

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Inventory is a huge part of the DD games and the UI used to control the inventory is a very important aspect. We are working really hard to make sure it is readable on any screen from a Switch to a 65" TV. This is part of the reason for the more "plain" look, but we also feel it helps the game feel more modern. Unfortunately adding the shading and colors for a more "medieval" theme makes visibility way worse. We're still making tweaks to things so these aren't the very final designs, and we've had a lot of people say the same thing.

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I do hope that things aren't going to be completely sacrificed for the sake of one console. 

That said, I do understand the reasoning. I just hope there's a fine balance in making it just seem overly bland and 'modern' and ensuring it's not an eyesore to look at, either. It is rather medieval, after all, and I do feel that part of the DD charm was the general aesthetics as well. 

But, I think people will be able to give more valuable feedback once the game is in our hands to test. 

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3 hours ago, cg_kyled said:

Unfortunately adding the shading and colors for a more "medieval" theme makes visibility way worse.

How about adding some adornment or borders to it? Maybe something outside of the actual readability and in the gaps.

I mocked up something to explain what I mean. (I know its not great, I'm just some internet random who stuck some bricks to it in a few minutes but you get the point I hope)

Just something little to stop it from looking too modern and clinical. As it should really keep to the theme at least a bit.

dundefinvent.png

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5 hours ago, cg_kyled said:

Inventory is a huge part of the DD games and the UI used to control the inventory is a very important aspect. We are working really hard to make sure it is readable on any screen from a Switch to a 65" TV. This is part of the reason for the more "plain" look, but we also feel it helps the game feel more modern. Unfortunately adding the shading and colors for a more "medieval" theme makes visibility way worse. We're still making tweaks to things so these aren't the very final designs, and we've had a lot of people say the same thing.

Should look into doing it how ff3(6usa) does it with a customize option.

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4 hours ago, LemonyNebula said:

How about adding some adornment or borders to it? Maybe something outside of the actual readability and in the gaps.

I mocked up something to explain what I mean. (I know its not great, I'm just some internet random who stuck some bricks to it in a few minutes but you get the point I hope)

Just something little to stop it from looking too modern and clinical. As it should really keep to the theme at least a bit.

dundefinvent.png

That's actually pretty cool!

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A little detail like that does indeed help, but I also can't help a different color scheme would go a long way as well. Not fond of that purple at all. 

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7 hours ago, Tristaris said:

I do hope that things aren't going to be completely sacrificed for the sake of one console. 

That said, I do understand the reasoning. I just hope there's a fine balance in making it just seem overly bland and 'modern' and ensuring it's not an eyesore to look at, either. It is rather medieval, after all, and I do feel that part of the DD charm was the general aesthetics as well. 

But, I think people will be able to give more valuable feedback once the game is in our hands to test. 

It's not just about a console. The game should be playable at lower resolutions on any device.

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10 hours ago, LemonyNebula said:

How about adding some adornment or borders to it? Maybe something outside of the actual readability and in the gaps.

I mocked up something to explain what I mean. (I know its not great, I'm just some internet random who stuck some bricks to it in a few minutes but you get the point I hope)

Just something little to stop it from looking too modern and clinical. As it should really keep to the theme at least a bit.

dundefinvent.png

Quality for a quick mock up, 100% agree. I think you can have a modern and clean, yet themed UI.

Can't think of many examples though... maybe Breath of the wild... quite simplistic, but fits the games theme.

Enjoying seeing these kind of discussions, bring on the beta :)

Edited by dcex1
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6 hours ago, Tristaris said:

A little detail like that does indeed help, but I also can't help a different color scheme would go a long way as well. Not fond of that purple at all. 

Yeah, I did actuatlly fiddle with colours to make it more like the original logo too with a sort of parchment colour, grey stone/ sandstone and wood, which looked great, but for the mockup all it did was mess up visibility which I was trying to avoid.

Not because they can't be changed, just because I don't have access to everything on seperate layers to stop the text and info changing colour when messing with the hue, and the image was too small to select just the colour around it without stealing pixels from the text sadly. If I put more time into it, I probably could have got around it, but it was only a speedy thing as an example, so I decided to just keep to the colour theme they had. A bit like how the bottom right details are just kind of sitting there lol.

But yeah It did look like it would work though and actualy looked pretty great if it wasn't for that. So colour changes would be good also. The parchment worked particularly well as its pretty well known for reading off of it lol. As long as its pale, or washed out a bit (like how that purple is lighter) there should be no reason not to be able to change it.

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11 hours ago, Alhanalem said:

It's not just about a console. The game should be playable at lower resolutions on any device.

Oh, I'm not saying the game shouldn't be playable. I'm saying it should look and feel like a Dungeon Defenders game rather than directly ripped from something like Fortnite. 

Thankfully that can be adjusted relatively easily with a simple color palette change. I think at least, lol.

As far as lower resolutions are concerned, yes I do agree that it needs to be playable. However, if someone is opting to play on a 6-inch screen, they need to also realize that when there's a lot of text on the screen it's just naturally going to be harder to read. How to fix that so all of the important information is available without squinting? I'm not entirely sure. Icons and red or green arrows are a good step, I guess and keeping all of the various numbers hidden until you open an item up/inspect it to look at it more in-depth? 

 

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I do not want a simple game. I want to farm, upgrade, and master map builds. I wanna have pages of gear and weapons and pets and folders to organize them all. I want DD1 but upgraded. If you do just that, make DD:A, DD1 upgraded this game will not fail.

I honestly have never looked at the numbers but I am sure If you follow in the footsteps of DD1 and just forget what happened in DD2 this game will be great. 

Sorry for dissing DD2 but to me it was a mistake making a F2P game. I'm really banking on this being an upgraded DD1 :/

Edited by ModWingz

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Quote

One thing you’ll notice is that there are Nintendo Switch inputs at the bottom. One of the biggest goals we had with the UIs for Dungeon Defenders: Awakened, was to make sure that it played well with a gamepad first. If it plays well with gamepad, then we can easily make it play well with mouse and keyboard.

Quote

Inventory is a huge part of the DD games and the UI used to control the inventory is a very important aspect. We are working really hard to make sure it is readable on any screen from a Switch to a 65" TV.[...]

It's not only the blank look and bad color scheme of the UI, but actually statements like the ones from above, which concern me the most. There is no optimal "one fits all" solution. The devices and especially the way of inputs are too different. Sure, you might get it to work somehow, but that solution will be far from optimal for every system and will always be a compromise to the "weakest part of the chain".

And it would be a shame, if the inventory UI would look like this on PC. I would like to give a few examples, how the inventory on a PC could differ: The advantage of a PC is high resolution and having the biggest screenspace (in relation to the viewing distance), so you can put much more functionality on the screen at the same time. For example I do not want to click on the "filter" button everytime. Filtering items is something, you will do extremely often, so the filters have to be right there in form of little toggleable icons (in a grid layout) for the item quality, item type (<selectAll>, Weapons, Helmets, Chests, Gloves, ..., <selectNone>), armor type (<selectAll>, Leather, Chain, Mail..., , <selectNone>) and what I am missing the most are stats: An icon of every stat and two input field next to it to specify the min. and max. value of this stat. So with a few precise clicks and with a few number inputs from the keyboard you should be able to quickly say "please show me all leather helmets of any quality with at least 50 tower damage and 40 tower rate of fire". Or you could filter "please show me all armors with max 30 tower damage and 25 tower HP", so you could then press the "sell all" button to get rid of low-level gear without going through every single item.

This would make inventory management so much easier and is just one of the example, how you can fully utilize the capabilities of a specific system. And that's why I am very concerned, that we will just get the most streamlined "one fits all" solution.

Edited by The Ich

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"Please don't listen to the guy..."

LOL

Try this - just state what you want and no need to step on anyone else's idea. We all get an equal say. 😉

Edited by Jaws_420
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:thonk: am I the only one who noticed that at the top right of the gear box it says lvl 1/1 and lvl Max. Wouldn't 1/1 also be max? Seems kind of inconsistent.

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10 hours ago, Exglint said:

:thonk: am I the only one who noticed that at the top right of the gear box it says lvl 1/1 and lvl Max. Wouldn't 1/1 also be max? Seems kind of inconsistent.

I did find it rather weird as well, but DD1 does the same thing with items, so its not a huge surprise. I'm just more concerned how readable it actually is on tvs and the Switch in handheld mode. All that info with text just seems a little overwhelming display wise. Without knowing for sure if there will be any auto collect feature I worry I am going to have to run around picking up every item, then spending forever inbetween maps going through the inventory. I see myself spending more time in the inventory screen than actually playing the game. They have said on a few occasions that they dont want to make it inventory manager the game, but atm I am seeing just that and not any easier to actually decide whats worth picking up off the floor.

Edited by dizzydiana

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On 11/5/2019 at 4:48 PM, LemonyNebula said:

How about adding some adornment or borders to it? Maybe something outside of the actual readability and in the gaps.

I mocked up something to explain what I mean. (I know its not great, I'm just some internet random who stuck some bricks to it in a few minutes but you get the point I hope)

Just something little to stop it from looking too modern and clinical. As it should really keep to the theme at least a bit.

dundefinvent.png

I like this. *screenshot*

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