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Ryzours

Single builder mode and multi builders mode

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Hello.

There are different ways to play dungeon defenders games. Why not make different game modes?

In single builder mode:

When you join the map, it's closed to other players (except members of your team or invite)

Whenever you want, you can open the map for dps players to join.

The dps players can't build or sell anything.

The builder can kick anyone he wants.

The builder can start the next wave even if dps players are not ready.

Dps players get only 90% of xp and gold. But all the loot. Edit: removed. This idea was unpopular and taking too much focus.

In multi builders mode:

Each player has his own du pool,  if 2 players are present at the start of the build phase, each get 60% of the base du of the map.

40% each for 3 players,  30% for four.

If only one player is here, he gets 60% of the du, and the next player to join also.

Votekick, as all players are equals.

Everyone gets 100% xp and gold.

With 2 builders, 10% chance to get an extra reward. 15% with 3 and 20% with four.

 

This idea probably needs a lot of refinement. What do you all think?

 

 

 

Edited by Ryzours
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I think multi builder gives people another reason to use split screen and play by themselves to get extra rewards and building DU, whereas single builder gives people a reason to not join public matches because if they aren't builder they're penalized. With a short enough build phase timer (something we don't know about yet) single builder wouldn't be used anyways.

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I really like the idea of this, but the execution would really need to be flushed out in full to avoid opportunism and abuse. 

Maybe zones on lanes where only the player assigned to that lane can build, But also have a rear zone by the crystal where all can build..,just throwing ideas out here.

I envision a map that looks like bowling alleys, side by side. There would also have to be limits on range, and like def in one zone cannot target or damage units in another lane...or something.

And i am thinking 1 lone map, so easily avoided if not your thing, and NOT in onslaught LOL. 

DD2 clearly showed that this game concept as a whole can be an incredibly lonely experience. I'd love to see the formula mixed up in some way to make multiplayer fun. Take some chances and think outside the box. Please... 😥

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14 hours ago, Martin Arcainess said:

Straight away no to the 90% exp/gold.

Ok. I think the solo builder mode would work anyway. It's the multi builder one that needs works. Starting with a better matchmaking interface. And maybe different rewards?

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Hard no to the stunted xp on DPS heroes. I would, however, support the heroes filling the DPS role to have an increased chance at loot geared towards DPS, and vice versa for the builder.  What I would like above all would be a detailed lobby making tool that can allow the host to set preferences at will, which can then be viewed by anyone looking for a lobby to see if they want in with your preset rules. 

 

As for a multi builder thing, I enjoy that idea. Maybe even have the ability to assign certain targets to certain players (ie. Only player A can damage Orcs, while only player B can damage goblins, etc.)

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On 9/4/2019 at 9:15 PM, Ryzours said:

Ok. I think the solo builder mode would work anyway. It's the multi builder one that needs works. Starting with a better matchmaking interface. And maybe different rewards?

Id say just make it all the same for all players. Builder or DPS.

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14 hours ago, Martin Arcainess said:

Id say just make it all the same for all players. Builder or DPS.

I removed that part.

Now, what about the multi builders mode? As proposed, people would get more du. Would that be an incentive enough to play it? Or maybe giving more loot like in DD2 would help?

Edited by Ryzours

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DD1 lobby settings can be manipulated to exactly create your single builder mode.

While the setup for multi builder mode is interesting, why does it give better rewards than single builder when it is significantly easier to clear a map with?

Making 1 person have all necessary builders makes a map much more stringent than spreading the requirement for good stats across multiple players, combined with 120% DU on the same map.

If this "Multi-Builder" mode was created on maps separate from "Single-Builder" maps, I can see it being a lot more interesting and fun, as I think you need the maps to be designed with that kind of setup in mind.

 

As a side note, votekick does not work under the multiplayer network framework Chromatic will be using for DDA.

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15 hours ago, Caimen0 said:

If this "Multi-Builder" mode was created on maps separate from "Single-Builder" maps, I can see it being a lot more interesting and fun, as I think you need the maps to be designed with that kind of setup in mind.

It pretty much comes down to this idea I gave in that thread.
 

Quote

A map divided in four separate parts. At first I was thinking of a map like a mine with 4 layers but it would probably be a better idea to have it be more or less flat and have all players be able to see what everyone else is doing if they want. Each part should either be identical or very similar in spawns/difficulty. At the start of the map the DUs would be divided equally among the players. Each player would spawn in their own part. I was thinking every single part would be isolated from each other and everyone would have to handle their own section. Or maybe they should be connected in some way so people can go help others if they need. But I was thinking there would be some kind of portals/jumps to travel to the other parts when missing players to handle the parts with no one in them. So if there were 2 players in the game, both players would be able to go back and forth between their 2 respective parts. With 3 players, 1 player would have 2/4 the DUs and half the map to take care of. Yes a player that joins halfway through wouldn't have DUs to build but did players who joined 2 waves late really ever get to build? Maybe there could be a pregame to let time for people to join where everyone has to ready up to spawn in their lane and have the DUs split. Or the host could just set the map in their tavern and wait for the amount of people they want to play with.

This wouldn't guarantee that you beat the map but it would be much easier for everyone to know what they have to do and this would incite all players to build. Also keep in mind that they said we would be able to restart at the wave we just lost on. So failing is gonna be a lot less punishing. This would also fix the possible leaver issues since upon losing on a wave because someone left we would be able to retry that wave and probably have the game redistribute the DUs.

This would involve each players killing less enemies individually so a possible fix would be to let each players able to roam the entire map at the end to loot. Another option could be to have all the drops from other parts that's theirs, actually appear in a special spot in their own part of the map.


Like Caimen0 said, if there was some kind of multi-builder mode/option, it should be on specifically tailored for maps. I really don't think making one amount of builders more rewarding than another is a good thing. I would also not like solo-building to be penalized in DUs. I think the best way to engage multiple people in building is to find a way that's fun and not frustrating game-play wise. Even if a map was supposed to be "easier" because everyone had their own share of a larger DU pool, there's no guarantee that everyone would be strong enough to build properly. I'm thinking mostly of the highest difficulty as it requires at lot more precision and power than everything else and I don't see a world where I would want to split building with someone else in survival. They talked about an option to retry a failed wave in DDA but I'm hoping that's not possible in Survival since I feel like it kinda defeats the purpose of the mode. And even if it is possible in survival, redoing an entire map build again with randoms upon failure, seems really annoying.

I would much rather have maps that encourage having multiple people building and that are possibly less penalizing rather than game elements that kind of force you to not solo build.

I really like the idea of a map(s) where there would be factors of 2 (2-4-6-etc) crystals to defend. The map could be built entirely solo but there would be options for the Host to activate 2 or 4 builders modes when hosting the map. Activating one of these options would split the map and DUs accordingly. Players would only have to worry about building and defending their own part of the map. I was thinking that a player losing their crystal(s) would only cause that player to lose. They would be forced back onto the remaining parts left and could only DPS. There should be some mechanics to prevent players from just losing and all falling back to the last player to DPS. Things like less rewards for every section destroyed or much harder waves scaling with the amount of players who lost their crystals. Also there should be an additional wave if a section of the map is destroyed on the last wave to not make the map too easy by just requiring one player to be able to defend their section in the last wave. Some maps in DD2 have additional objectives to defend that open new enemies spawns if destroyed. There could absolutely be a similar system in 2/4 builders modes with visual events that would cause the remaining sections to be much harder to defend every time a section is destroyed.


Personally, I really don't want any kind of system that penalizes you for solo building but I would love for new features or maps that have you want to build with other people. Like some kind of survival last man standing like I suggested in the thread I linked earlier or a multi-builder mode where I'm not penalized for weaker builders failing but instead challenged by it.

I don't see how having every builder just split what to build across the whole map can be fun. Having one person placing the walls in a predetermined spot and then the next one placing the auras and so on isn't actually more fun. Sure on an easier difficulty every one can place pretty much what ever they want where they want but on the hardest difficulty you unfortunately need the best combinations.

 

Edited by Windex

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