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ddace

CDT Update 6 RC is Here!!

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Posted (edited)

Thanks to all for testing and providing feedback for this Update 6 so far.  It has been coming along and has hit RC where you can now play it and have your Ranked data progress saved by selecting it.  We are looking to hopefully release this soon and quickly move to Update 7 for yall.  So please test this when you can and provide any further feedback and report any issues with the update or with the game that need to get fixed.  Minor issues may get fixed in Update 7 as that will be moving quickly to beta as well for all to test after this release. 

To go ahead and switch to version 8.6:

  1. Go to your Steam Library
  2. Right click on Dungeon Defenders and select Properties
  3. Click on the Betas Tab
  4. Click on the drop down box and select update6_rc

Note:  Your Ranked Progress will be saved but if something major happens where we need to update again or remove items, then you may lose those items.  Or if you happen to exit the beta and go back to the Live branch, items from Update 6 will disappear.  

Here are the current list of Patch notes for this this update.  


New Map - Crystalline Resurgence 4
 - Rewards buffed Sky City lower difficulty weapons and Mini Kraken pet

New Map - Coastal Bazaar
 - Campaign rewards  new lamp and carpet weapons
 - Survival rewards genie wave 25 and Mini Genie King end of survival wave 35

Updated Map - Emerald City
 - Reskinned Boss and changed name
 - Added survival 
 - Rewards imp wave 25 and Desert Cupid end of survival
 - buffed emerald sword and staff stats
 - Emerald thrower now has more central spread
 - Random rewards were buffed to Moonbase levels
 - Added magic carpets to help move around map faster

QoL
 - Added quality color around item names in inventory to help make it easier to identify item qualities.  Toggles with "CTRL+O" 
 - Display 3 decimals for buff beam boost values
 - Show DPS in tool tip for Bouncer Blockade and Slice n Dice like other towers

Edited by ddace
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Just to state my opinion in here. The rewards for CR4 are not worth the time investment you have to place in the map, especially when they are done on the same way the Polybius rewards are. Getting a pet that rolls ult and higher less than 10% of the time, and each time you want to farm one it takes you at least 10 minutes is not something nice. The map was made less annoying to run with the removal of one wave, but the rewards don't make it worth running for them.

Balancing around emerald city weapons was nice on the staff and sword were nice, but the gun change was questionable, the weapon is still very underwhelming when compared to a blaster rifle or even a pawn shot (weapons that came way back and are easier to farm) since they don't have a spread and do generic damage only.
The carpets on emerald city are kinda useless since the time it takes to get on them is higher than just running to where they take you most of the time, they should be moved or changed to something smaller imo.

Coastal Bazaar is by far the best map in this update. The end of map rewards are pretty good on campaign and the survival drops make it an alternative to moonbase (the old meta armor run that everyone did). The use of the higher quality makes people that don't have high end pcs able to farm armor without taking way more real time than ingame due to getting low frames.
The amount of ogres at the end of waves is kinda high at the moment, getting upwards of 50-70 on the last few waves of survival. Mini Genie King rolls are kinda underwhelming on the quality factor, suffering from the same problem as the Mini Kraken.

 

Overall, all 3 pets that were added this patch seem quite bad on the quality percentages. If you compare the difficulty of CR1 and CR3 to CR4 and Emerald city, they're around the same for farming a pet on them, but the CR1/3 pets roll ultimate or higher 50-60% of the time, while CR4 and Emerald only get 10% at most. The difficulty on Coastal, while not as high as the other 3 survivals, is higher than doing a King Game survival run for a dice, but the dice rolls ult 20%, which is double the percentage of the new mini genie king.
Speaking from experience on this, even when the Mini Spider Queen (MSQ) and Crystalline Dragon roll ult that often, due to the sheer difficulty of the map not many people farm them really often. Meanwhile Dice get farmed a lot due to the low difficulty of the map, low time it takes to run 2 waves and high quality of rolls on them.
The new pets need to roll ultimate more frequently, otherwise they won't be pursued after.

While talking about how useful they are and not only on the quality rolls, both the Mini Genie King and Mini Kraken irrelevant choices. For both of them you need around 500 upgrades with good hero stats to beat a 39k chicken (which only takes at most 3-4 hours to farm, compared to the hundreds of hours for a high quality roll of the new pets). They shouldn't need that high of rolls to be comparable, somewhere around 400 should be the number to aim for. The MSQ at 400 upgrades and decent stats does way more damage than a chicken on non-boss mobs due to her quirk of shooting webs. While the Mini Genie doesn't need to outright outdamage a chicken at lower upgrades due to it giving the player mana, it needs to be at least on the same level without a god tier roll on upgrades and stats.
The Mini Kraken on the other hand needs to outright beat a chicken due to the sheer dificulty of farming it, being awarded on one of the highest difficulty maps of the game.
I can't say anything about the desert cupid due to not farming a decent one yet, but once I do I'll come back and say something about it.


As always, this is only my opinion, but I think a bunch of people would agree on it.

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Hmmm seems like you forgot to write about a change in the QoL part of the post there Acen. Because I can't see where it says that item recovery is coming to maps such as Sky City and Kings Game...

But i guess it's understandable that you guys dont want to add it with the community being so against it (https://forums.dungeondefenders.com/forums/topic/165969-item-recovery-for-sky-city-kg/?tab=comments#comment-1548053)

 

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5 hours ago, Sam116 said:

Hmmm seems like you forgot to write about a change in the QoL part of the post there Acen. Because I can't see where it says that item recovery is coming to maps such as Sky City and Kings Game...

But i guess it's understandable that you guys dont want to add it with the community being so against it (https://forums.dungeondefenders.com/forums/topic/165969-item-recovery-for-sky-city-kg/?tab=comments#comment-1548053)

 

That was not designed to be a part of this update.  However that doesnt mean it isnt coming in the next one.

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I'd appreciated for making Coastal Bazaar, this map, easy management.

I just use my Tower Boost monk and it still has a high drop rate in NMHC(non-MM) survival game.

So far I got sup, ult, ult+ armor here.

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Posted (edited)

Baby djinn are stupid on emerald survival, they have 20m hp on later waves and only take damage from players. There shouldn't be a mob that can just two shot my towers on a map that's already this hard on non-MM. I can't even imagine how hard mixed mode is on this map. This map is way harder than any other map in the game on survival because of this and the fact that they are able to make all enemies golden.
I legitimately don't know what is less annoying to run for the rewards, campaign with the boss and the "kill all towers" mechanic or the survival with the "lose your run" djinns

The cupid pet is fine for dps, but I stand on the fact that

To add on this, the 40-50 ogres that spawn at once at the end of the map already make it hard enough as it is, the baby djinn just make it so the map is bs. It feels the same way as tow when kobolds killed the east crystal out of nowhere

 

Edited by Thaleskpl
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hullo its bon. not sure how i feel about this update. thales pretty much hit everything i was gonna say but ill reiterate some bits it based on my experiences and the experiences of other peeps who voice their opinions on DDRnG.


so first off the main things that are said about emerald is that baby djinns suck, the few who run it say theyre too tanky and they deal way too much damage. the big boy wyverns on that map have way too much hp and you arent able to clear the survival without wheeling. ive asked people in DDRnG and everyone agreed that any survival that NEEDS wheel to win is a really bad survival and isnt worth the hassle for a really bad pet. thales mentioned how bad the pets drop so just refer to his post up there ^ for  it. the carpets on emerald are scuffed cuz they are really slow. if you get hit by anything while youre on the carpet, it returns you back to where the carpet starts, its really frustrating when youre trying to use the shortcut that floops you across the map when the shortcut is really bad and is slower in most cases to use them than running normally. its faster to run from east core to any other core than to use the carpets there.

for coastal the weapons drop reaaaaaally well for being a really easy map, idk if you guys plan on changing weapons already in the game or whatever but those are definitely the mid game meta weapons since they drop ult like 55% of the time. i get that coastal surv is supposed to be the alternative to moonbase but i feel like its everything and more. but maybe too much more. my testing sample has been really small so farm at only 11 runs but so far ive gotten an average of 8 ults per run on non mix mode from waves 21-35. idk if that maps broken but from watching others get loot as frequently as i did, this is probably intended for the most part.

cr4 isnt too difficult if you have super high stats, ive soloed it around 8 times to make sure it wasnt just luck, the rewards are really underwhelming. specially the krakens, theyre a cool pet dont get me wrong, but they roll horribly. same for the weapons they rolled pretty bad from what ive seen. i definitely havent had enough testing yet but im not sure whether theyre dps weapons or builder weapons since all of their damage is horrid and the stats dont roll high at all. i was expecting them to be a bit better, specially since it comes from cr4 which is arguably the hardest map yet aside from cr3 old one and the survival maps.

im not sure what else there is to say besides this update was kinda butts lol, it is definitely nice having another good armor farming map but this one might be a tad bit op lol

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Posted (edited)

I don't have very strong opinions about other things but one thing I can talk about is CR4.

Chewy and I put a decent amount of time into the map to see how far we could push the times learning new things here and there. Significantly more time than anybody else.

During this update, VERY few people ever ran the map. For over a week there were 7 people on the Nightmare leaderboard in total. It is now up to around 20 compared to Coastal with significantly more, don't have the number off the top of my head but its in the hundreds.

The map is up there in terms of effort and difficulty put in. The only thing I could say that takes more effort than it is Temple of Polybius.

Temple of Polybius drops the best weapons in the game. Nothing compares to their stat rolls. CR4 weapons on the other hand are pretty much on par with Coastal in terms of ult chance and stat rolls.

Both maps require multiple people to get any decent time on it, rewards are account based etc. These maps have a lot of similarities, except for the rewards. The thing about this is that CR4 is on par with Poly in terms of difficulty and effort but takes longer and drops half the weapons. You also can't target a specific weapon you want without using an extremely suboptimal class in most cases. These things should be on par with Polybius' weapons stat wise just considering how the maps function relative to eachother.

Now, the real problem at hand. The Kraken. There isn't much to be said about this thing other than, it sucks. It doesn't deal even moderately close to enough damage to make it usable. Nearly 500 upgrades with a max damage roll is absolutely insane just to beat a chicken on melee damage that can be gotten in a few runs. They need extreme buffs to their melee damage to ever be considered usable.

Even more of a problem, their ult rates. They drop ult or higher less than 10% of the time. This map takes 10 minutes if you're doing it very well in a 2p run. Anything above 2p gets incredibly laggy to the point that I don't care if it was faster, its basically unplayable for the people who aren't hosting. It's already incredibly hard to even get a hawk off on a Barbarian on 2 player due to lag, regardless of connection. You get 1 Kraken per run. Needing to do 10-11 runs on average for an ultimate immediately means they will not be farmed at all, they could beat chickens at 350 ups and still nobody would use them because it is so ridiculously rare to get one for a map this difficult and engaged. To be quite honest, depending on the damage buff that they require, they should be brought to a 50% ult rate. It feels really bad on a map that only drops 1 of a reward you're looking for to have a low ult rate. 

A personal opinion is that I would like to see them beat a 39k chicken at 350 ups assuming max damage roll with a 35-40% ult rate. Another number I think could be looked at is beating it at ~400 ups with a 50% ult rate. Anything below 30% and I honestly couldn't see many people running the map regardless of how good they are.

Krakens roll pretty well on their stats so no complaints about that but might be necessary to bump them up for the sake of their ult rates without problems elsewhere.

The Kraken's ranged attack is pretty uninteresting and mediocre but I've heard there is already work being done on that so I won't bother talking about it.

Genie Kings are basically the same pet without ranged damage and give mana instead. These things should be buffed too obviously since they basically have the same numbers as the Kraken but I do think they should deal a considerable amount less than Kraken but give more mana. They really don't have a usage currently. The mana isn't enough to mean much for a DPS pet, could do with a small buff to mana to give it a purpose even if it was outclassed on raw damage.

Edit: I've been complaining about the Emerald Staff for a long time now but apparently never added it to this post after getting so worked up over the Kraken (please fix this damn pet).

The Emerald Staff was buffed to more acceptable stats, this was a more than welcome buff but in the process had its drop rate destroyed by a base damage nerf to intentionally make them worse tower weapons. This honestly just makes no sense. There is no logical reason that a weapon from such a difficult and slow map should have such a low ult rate, especially when this even guts the original intended use of the weapon for DPS. The Emerald Staff is obviously a particularly nice weapon to make an alternative to Clavas due to the movespeed it gives.

In reality, everybody just wants an alternative to Clavas, most people are more than willing to take a stat hit when compared to Clavas for better drop rates, people that already have good Clavas will probably stick with theirs. Akatiti has had the best staff in the game for way too long for such an easy map, give it up.

 

TL;DR. CR4 is a complete flop rewards wise. Very nice map now that a wave was removed but lag issues really hurt it.

Edited by dangermoose125
Typos, Emerald Staff stuff added.

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Even though it's great to have new updates and the new maps are really great, it's rather disappointing seeing so little quality of life improvements being added. So many things that could be improved, but what is implemented is just more numbers to Buff Beams... As if now its values are any less irrelevants than were before...

> Not differentiating golden enemies on the mini map
> Not being able to cycle while checking towers (not to mention ethereal trap overlaying everything)
> Not being able to type how much mana to drop instead of dropping all or using those extremely sensitive arrows
> Not having a scrollbar in the Accomplishments section
> Not having the option to equip accs to serve purely as cosmetic without the need to remove whatever you were using for stats

I don't want to sound ungrateful in any way, but adding carpets that barely saves any time and more numbers to Buff Beams... So much more relevant things could have been done... But at least north crystal of Temple of Water was finally fixed (and took only 1 or 2 weeks since its release, or a little more...).

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Emerald Staff needs a buff to roll ult more, no one wants to farm Akatiti forever for a good builder staff. 

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Hello MrCookedGuy here.

Keeping it short cause it annoys me.. Currently "0.9% Emerald staffs is Ultimate++" and "0.72% clavas is ult++" (uber short last sentence)

Some differences...

Clavas, can triple cap, Clavas/akatiti takes 9-10minutes to farm(semi-afk). But Clavas is 1/3 per character in... and theres a 0.72% clavas rolls ult++.

Emerald Staffs, can double cap, has extra hero speed, is character based drop. Emerald staff/city takes 20+minutes to farm(with constant playing and wheeling).. and there is a 0.9% chance Emerald staffs roll Ultimate++..
---------------

Those are some differences i've noticed doing it so far(thank you for the math you smart people). I like that the staffs are going to right way towards outsorcing the Clava. With the extra hero movementspeed, slightly higher ++ drop rate and a possebility to double cap(Although i've understood it that they roll so poorly that youd have higher chance to get ++ Clava double cap then Emerald ++ single cap). 

But as one that still lacks a good ++ clava(Ya'll seen my current ones.. its.... bad). I can say that even though its on the right path, its not remotely close to get me to move from farming Akatiti to farming emerald city...

The map(Emerald) is generally a pain the ass... Shortcuts that generally take longer then running to crystals, mini-djinns that deal buttload of damage and mega wyerns that requires you CONSISTENTLY WHEEL for the last 2waves(Including boss wave and when boss is up, if you dont kill it quick enough). 

Now to my cooked conclusion(yeah short one uh?), Emerald is a challenging map even for high endgame players... But rewards are NO... WAY... NEAR... worth the struggle to farm. I heard rumours the Staffs were getting a buff, making this map actually worth the time for players. Now i hear rumours that this is not going to happen which BREAKES MY HEART cause that means the map will go back to being as dead as it was before, and is currently... Which maps are worth farming is(ofcourse) Measured in effort vs reward... Emerald is 50times the effort vs Akatiti with not even close to 2x chances of a good reward, cooked math if you ask me?

 

Makes sense? No? i guessed so...

 

 

As of current, Emerald City is not worth farming for staffs vs Akatiti, there needs to be a buff on the Emerald staffs ult % for it to even be considerd worth our time.

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On 7/27/2019 at 1:37 PM, ddace said:

Thanks to all for testing and providing feedback for this Update 6 so far.  It has been coming along and has hit RC where you can now play it and have your Ranked data progress saved by selecting it.  We are looking to hopefully release this soon and quickly move to Update 7 for yall.  So please test this when you can and provide any further feedback and report any issues with the update or with the game that need to get fixed.  Minor issues may get fixed in Update 7 as that will be moving quickly to beta as well for all to test after this release. 

To go ahead and switch to version 8.6:

  1. Go to your Steam Library
  2. Right click on Dungeon Defenders and select Properties
  3. Click on the Betas Tab
  4. Click on the drop down box and select update6_rc

Note:  Your Ranked Progress will be saved but if something major happens where we need to update again or remove items, then you may lose those items.  Or if you happen to exit the beta and go back to the Live branch, items from Update 6 will disappear.  

Here are the current list of Patch notes for this this update.  


New Map - Crystalline Resurgence 4
 - Rewards buffed Sky City lower difficulty weapons and Mini Kraken pet

New Map - Coastal Bazaar
 - Campaign rewards  new lamp and carpet weapons
 - Survival rewards genie wave 25 and Mini Genie King end of survival wave 35

Updated Map - Emerald City
 - Reskinned Boss and changed name
 - Added survival 
 - Rewards imp wave 25 and Desert Cupid end of survival
 - buffed emerald sword and staff stats
 - Emerald thrower now has more central spread
 - Random rewards were buffed to Moonbase levels
 - Added magic carpets to help move around map faster

QoL
 - Added quality color around item names in inventory to help make it easier to identify item qualities.  Toggles with "CTRL+O" 
 - Display 3 decimals for buff beam boost values
 - Show DPS in tool tip for Bouncer Blockade and Slice n Dice like other towers

Wow this thread is kicking into action. Good to see feedback flowing. Like to add in as well - 

 

-Have not done CR4. Immediately once I heard the math on the Kraken, I knew I would never farm that for the pet. Seems to be pretty tough with rewards not worth it, a trend I am noticing in map after map

-Emerald city is pretty rough. I agree with others on the mini djinns and difficulty factor, that it is very hard even with end game gear. I am competent at building, either making my own or using others, and this map was frustrating. The staff changes are pretty yikes, in the sense it was a purposeful nerf ... for what? Becuase once again, it is somehow still worth your time in akatiti with the current rates. And neither is fun, keep in mind a good ++ for apprentice weapons is a nightmarish grind that most either drop out, or accept a poorly rolled over clava. Buffing the ult rate back up and still keeping the stats for double keep is a necessity. I don't see any of the other weapons being farmed STILL, except people hoping and wishing for the staff. 

-Coastal is a great map. Ult rates are good and I believe its a very good improvement over moonbase. As oppoised to bonny, I think the rewards are fine in their current state, but would support a buff to the enemies and health. It just felt easier than moonbase for me but that is very subjective. Iv only done around 10 survival runs and maybe 10 campaign runs as well. Love the addition of the new weapons rolling better, hope to see the sandstone sledge and the other Death from Above weapons too!

-Quality color around items - love it. 

-DPS tool tips - great to see added as well (even if those towers are.. rarely used late game)

-Buff beam decimals - love it. 

 

 

In general though, the end game maps being made are trending on the side of being too difficult vs the rewards. CR1-3 really stepped it up a notch for mid game players, and even in their current states are very very tough. Campaign bosses on 2 and 3 were already nerfed, and feel more ok. Survivals are a whole other story. CR2 and 3 are just ridiculous. I should not be required to wheel on any map or have that be such an essential component of the build, that people WILL NOT run without 2-4 jesters. Wheeling every 30 seconds 100% accuracy. Luckily, I was told base damage on insane for CR1 and CR3 W35 pets are actually using the NM damagen I believe still. This is allowing me a chance to farm good pets on insane, where ogres are still 20m hp+ and a nightmare for mid game players. I am only farming Insane as Nightmare is too much effort with forced roles to be enjoyable with my stats, which are more than sufficient. 

 

So, get your good pets before they nerf insane base damage and require you to do ridiculous 20, 150M+ hp ogre Nightmare! Aren't you having fun yet?

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The new maps are pretty fun but the survival modes are a little bit harder than I can handle. I don't know i have great stats it seems like the it was balanced for the top 10 builders or something 

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The last 2 patches have begun a horrible habit of having bad droprates for subpar weapons on annoying maps.

As well as mind numbingly strange weapon "balance" changes.

Emerald Staff is the one weapon on Emerald City that I want to farm, but it has the worst droprate of all the weapons on the map. The map is also a slog to run through and the magic carpets did not appreciably change map run time. Furthermore I don't think sub 50% is a good droprate when I can get better on Buccaneer Bay which is about 50x easier to run and takes half the time.

Every single weapon on CR4 is a hot pile of garbage that is not worth farming. The Mini Kraken has an abysmal drop rate for only being able to get one per account per run. Unlike Ultimate Seahorses, they also are not strong enough to justify farming despite the awful drop rate.

I do appreciate the changes that were made to CR4 that made it a lot better to run through.

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Yeah i can vouch for emerald staff's, i have no idea why they had to somehow have there ult rate nerfed for the stat increase, and with even high neg chance than before :/....
I was looking forward to next patch hearing the ult rate would probably be fixed but if it stays the way it is now, i'm never touching that again map for a high stat staff and would rather go back to farming clava's which are better regardless. It's just not worth the time and effort in it's current state for emerald staff's.

survival isn't exactly great either...

Yeah the carpet's really aren't useful either. as many others have said, it's faster to run to places than use them.

As for cr4, the kracken's drop rate is BEYOND abysmal. only 1 per account the drop rate is way too low for that considering the maps difficulty. 

Edited by Lootlovinggamer

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Just wanted to say i would like to see some improvement for the emerald staffs, like others allready said, i was looking forward to farming a good builder one after the stat increase but sadly its still not an option.
 

And regarding cr4 it isnt played at all for a reason for the difficulty and the single reward per account the rewards are just way tooooooo bad, even less worth farming then emerald imo

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I don't like CR4 because we have to kill a dragon every wave, but I think the difficulty was a RIGHT step forward.

For 3k stats, I think the difficulty of CR4 is comparable to solo 3k CR3 (no Rainmakers, Calvary, or hero boost) as well as  2k CR1 and 2k CR2. 

With higher stats/events, CR4 is easier but not reduced to a joke like CR1-3.

I definitely agree that CR4 needs better rewards though. I'm not fond of the kraken pet, but the weapons should drop ults as often as Polybius.

For emerald city, I think campaign boss is manageable with a solid build. Survival should be modified so we don't need to wheel, but I have no suggestions on how that could be achieved.

Bazaar is a good farming map and I have no opinion on that.

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8 hours ago, K00lDudE1 said:

Are crystalline resurgence, coastal bazaar etc. available on mac? if not, will they be at any point?

They're not and probably will never be. The updates on Mac stopped on 2012 or 2013. Your best shot is getting dual boot and playing on windows

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