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dizzydiana

Kick options in DDA

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With discussions being made about what we do and do not wish to see in DDA. I would like to turn some attention to how the game intends to deal with problem players in DDA. In DD1 who ever hosts the game can unilaterally kick any player they so choose. In DD2 to kick a player this is done by the way of a majority vote.Both systems have drawbacks and benefits and I am not entirely sure which is the better system. I thought perhaps in addition to/instead of these we could have some sort of block/ban list so we could avoid those players we feel cause issues.  I wonder as a whole what the community thinks about how best to address this.

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A block/ban list will be the best idea to go with. If CG doesn't plan to do so, my opinion below. 

If I know a person having a bad rep for kicking on wave 5, once I enter and see him hosting, I can just leave. I lose maybe 30 second for re-entering (they get nothing by kicking except ruining their own names anyway, and lose all the bonus from multi-player at the end)

However, by vote kick, I can literally join any game I want with a friend, that host has to get kicked by me with no choice, except playing private, and lose wtv win streak he's on, or map he already built. 

For me, it's more of, which one has a better solution, which one has no solution at all on player side. Hence, host kick > vote kick. 

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Let host kick whoever they want in their game. Don't like it, make your own game.

 

/closed

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9 minutes ago, xAtlas said:

Let host kick whoever they want in their game. Don't like it, make your own game. 

 

/closed

You have to be careful with host kicking as people could get people to play up to a point, then kick them last second, and just abuse it as much as they can. It can put people off playing altogether and make finding people to join your game harder as everyone would want to host their own.

You could also go the way of majority vote, as at least then there would be less chance of abuse. If you are already in a game with a majority who behaves like that, then you wouldn't want to be in a game with them anyway. However this could also mean hijacking of your game from a joined team, or losing control of kicking a particularly bothersome player.

I honestly don't know what is best.

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1 hour ago, LemonyNebula said:

You have to be careful with host kicking as people could get people to play up to a point, then kick them last second, and just abuse it as much as they can. It can put people off playing altogether and make finding people to join your game harder as everyone would want to host their own.

You could also go the way of majority vote, as at least then there would be less chance of abuse. If you are already in a game with a majority who behaves like that, then you wouldn't want to be in a game with them anyway. However this could also mean hijacking of your game from a joined team, or losing control of kicking a particularly bothersome player.

I honestly don't know what is best.

Deciding who to kick in your own game > allowing others to make that decision for you and hijacking ur game. Maybe even kicking you in your own game (if they even have that feature)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, xAtlas said:

Deciding who to kick in your own game > allowing others to make that decision for you and hijacking ur game. Maybe even kicking you in your own game (if they even have that feature)


This works only if you're hosting. In a 4 players game, only 1 is hosting, and 3 are not. So, 3/4 of the time, votekick>hostkick.

When you're kicked unfairly, you won't remember who kicked you, so leaving the game when you recognize a bad host will never happen. You'll be kcked again. Up to the point where you'll only play solo.

But DD is more fun in multiplayer!

A blacklist is the way to go. Or maybe some rep system? Or a really huge reward for finishing a game with four players, so that trolls kicking for no reasons are penalised in the long run.....

Edited by Ryzours
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With reading the posts so far I am more and more convinced that some sort of block list should be implemented regardless of what kick system is in force. Being able to have a button to click block/avoid or what ever while selecting a player in your session and leaving the session gives assurance that you wont run into that player again unless you then unban/unblock later. I still cant decide whether host kick or vote kick is the way to go. In Dd1 you would get hosts who would get a little power crazy and initially when defenses would retain their stats some have people build and then just kick them. With vote kick system all other players have to agree to kick the player and if only 2 it is impossible to kick at all. As I said both systems have issues and i wonder if a block list was in place would we be better off removing the kick function entirely.

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Host kicks player. This can only be done before wave 3 out of 5. or less than half way through a match

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Just now, super_slayan said:

Host kicks player. This can only be done before wave 3 out of 5. or less than half way through a match

Guess now I can safely afk 3 waves and cook dinner :Emoji_GobHuntress:

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, super_slayan said:

Host kicks player. This can only be done before wave 3 out of 5. or less than half way through a match

Seems reasonable, if it was made that after a certain point new players were unable to join that match. Since it seems survival is returning a match can last until wave 40 there, so there is a need for flexibility. If I was forced to choose between I probably come down on the side of Host kick for at least private multiplayer. If you are playing in a private session you should have complete control over what happens there. In public matches is where I feel it gets a little murkier unless it might be possible with party leader type system to make the party leader have these host kick powers and these powers can be transferred. When the host leaves or disconnects in DD1 from a map everyone else is kicked regardless. It would be nice for those other players especially in public matches could remain if they so wish.

Edited by dizzydiana
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I've been a victim in DD1 of "5 sec before match is over" kick. Also the DD2 "2 players kick host" and "never readies up" as well. 

IMO host should be able to kick and retain control of a map, but some kind of restrictions on doing that are definitely needed to prevent abuse and trolling - which will totally happen. 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Hello how to unlock new costume the gold  plates squire?

Hey there! This is an off-topic question so I might suggest creating a thread to ask about that but....

To answer your question, currently, the golden heroes skins are only exclusive to those who backed the DDA kickstarter (which is now over sadly). But if you have already backed, the codes for it will come in the next week or so.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, hailminion said:

Guess now I can safely afk 3 waves and cook dinner :Emoji_GobHuntress:

“before” so they can kick before the start of wave 3.  good luck cooking in 2 waves of time

Edited by super_slayan
wrong word used
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Posted (edited)

From what I have read from the devs, they appear to be coding it like DD1 multiplayer, that being P2P connections. Votekick doesn't work here because if the host player is kicked, everyone else's session would also be terminated since the host's client has been disconnected.. Not exactly fair if you were the one hosting the session to begin with. I can't see it happening in a P2P system.

Edited by Caimen0

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, super_slayan said:

“before” so they can kick before the start of wave 3.  good luck cooking in 2 waves of time

Nah. I will do this. 

Play 2 waves → Start 3rd wave →  Warm up pan, boil water, cut meat

Join another game  → play 2 waves (water boiled, pan warmed)  → start 3rd → Drop pasta, pan-fry meat → drop in pasta and mix

Join another game  → play 2 waves (soaked in all the flavor to perfection) → start 3rd  → Eat my dinner and watch Youtube. 

Join another game  → play 2 waves  → start 3rd → Clean dishes

Edit: Finish dinner → start private, so others don't slow me down after wave 3,4,5, chest, continue :Emoji_GobHuntress:

Edited by hailminion
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52 minutes ago, hailminion said:

Nah. I will do this. 

Play 2 waves → Start 3rd wave →  Warm up pan, boil water, cut meat

Join another game  → play 2 waves (water boiled, pan warmed)  → start 3rd → Drop pasta, pan-fry meat → drop in pasta and mix

Join another game  → play 2 waves (soaked in all the flavor to perfection) → start 3rd  → Eat my dinner and watch Youtube. 

Join another game  → play 2 waves  → start 3rd → Clean dishes

Edit: Finish dinner → start private, so others don't slow me down after wave 3,4,5, chest, continue :Emoji_GobHuntress:

alright go ahead and be a douche then 

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Posted (edited)

This gives me an idea to autokick anyone who doesnt press anything within 10 seconds or has the same keys, buttons pressed for at least 15 seconds lol

 

this would be an addition to the host kick feature

Edited by super_slayan

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Just now, super_slayan said:

This gives me an idea to autokick anyone who doesnt press anything within 10 seconds

I'd happily vote for that. I'm not trying to go thru loop holes for the sake of doing it. Just want to voice, there might be others like me who see efficiency over benefits of someone we may never encounter more than once every 50 games. and it's not hard to choose when the system offers "free carry + anti-kick + no consequence"

There may not be many like me, but CG needs to make sure there're counter measures for people like me if they decide to implement anything anti-kick. 

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I am all for host kicking.  The good outweighs the bad. Theres a simple solution to stop people from kicking too far into the match: in much the same way as a match cant be joined after wave 3, disable host kicking past that point as well. It's not a perfect solution, but it alleviates the worst of the issues in both DD1 and DD2's kick systems.

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6 hours ago, super_slayan said:

This gives me an idea to autokick anyone who doesnt press anything within 10 seconds or has the same keys, buttons pressed for at least 15 seconds lol

 

this would be an addition to the host kick feature

Maybe not so harsh of a time limit, but an afk timer would definitely be a plus to me. So long as it was a toggle option, and that it was clearly displayed whether the host was using it or not before joining a game.

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1 minute ago, Thorgonator said:

Maybe not so harsh of a time limit, but an afk timer would definitely be a plus to me. So long as it was a toggle option, and that it was clearly displayed whether the host was using it or not before joining a game.

thr reason i say 10 seconds and not something like 30 is so that people aren’t just sitting around and just clicking one button every 29 seconds so that they dont get kicked but are still able to comfortably do whatever they’re doing afk without being annoyed by the kick timer.

i could definitely see people clicking a key and then just go on their phones for like 25 seconds then hit another key and repeat. i feel 10 seconds would encourage for people to play consistently

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Posted (edited)

When you're kicked, your defenses become almost useless in DD2, so if you're the builder and people votekick you out, they also screw themselves over. Votekick can't be abused this much.

Hostkick except in the last couple of waves: sounds ok. Might work. Difficult to be sure. We should definitely try this sometimes.

The afk timer shoud be optional, i stopped playing DDE when I got afk kicked from my own solo game because of a phone call. Don't autokick people who plays solo!

A block/blacklist system would be useful with any of the solutions proposed, and can't be abused. (Can it?}

I tbought the kick system has been discussed to death, but this thread is bringing new ideas, and the topic is back to life.  Maybe we can find other, better options?

Edited by Ryzours
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15 hours ago, Caimen0 said:

From what I have read from the devs, they appear to be coding it like DD1 multiplayer, that being P2P connections. Votekick doesn't work here because if the host player is kicked, everyone else's session would also be terminated since the host's client has been disconnected.. Not exactly fair if you were the one hosting the session to begin with. I can't see it happening in a P2P system.

I think you are correct on this, which means I guess the discussion is a little moot. I dont think it should be a direct clone of the existing host kick that exists on Dd1 however and perhaps we can improve the system for DDA. Suggestions so far:

1 adding a limit to which wave you can kick or join a match - must have flexibility where longer sessions exist eg survival

2 adding a block/ban list so players can avoid players who they feel cause issues

I am not sure if there is anything else which could improve the system to keep it fair and less open to abuse. Perhaps you have ideas?

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Posted (edited)
On 6/27/2019 at 7:12 AM, Ryzours said:

The afk timer shoud be optional, i stopped playing DDE when I got afk kicked from my own solo game because of a phone call. Don't autokick people who plays solo!

AFK timers are basically the reason I would rather play DD1 over DDE or DD2.  I mean, if I want my defenses to do all the work, why should I have to run around or shoot randomly?

I also think it helped encourage builders to play with others.  I often would start a session, build the map, then let other players farm XP or items while they repair or upgrade towers.

Edited by Batophobia
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