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DD:A Backer International Shipping Megathread

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Defenders,

We’ve been receiving and pouring over the feedback about the additional shipping fee that our international backers are having to cover in order to receive physical goods at various tiers. Last week we outlined what the options available were, which we put up as soon as possible while we investigated everything going on. The options provided are still the options we have, but we wanted to provide more background info as to why this happened. Our goal at Chromatic is to be as transparent as possible, and this is an opportunity for us to do so.

Originally when we created our Kickstarter campaign, in our setup we were told that shipping fees are included in the information collection stage (surveys). The guidance we had received from the fulfillment company we were going to use insisted that this was the best practice, because based on the success of the Kickstarter, shipping rates could vary because of the bulk of the order, and we’d be charging customers unfairly. We ended up not going with our original fulfillment company, as the prices were incredibly steep and included a higher shipping fee added, something we learned a little too late into the process. During our Kickstarter campaign, we had to then pivot and get setup with BackerKit very quickly. We ended up working with a local company to do fulfillment and decided to soften the blow of having to pay for international shipping by eating a portion of the shipping cost. This is why US shipping is free, and international shipping is at $30. It is much higher than that, but the more we start to cover, the entire order for us starts going into the negative. This means our options would be to cancel certain orders, or provide an opportunity to still get the goods ordered. We went with the latter, and provided two options in a post we listed last week.

The options provided here are still the options that we have available to us, with an additional one as well. However, we want to try and make things right to the best of our ability. So here’s what we’re going to do in addition:

  • For any international backer that pays the shipping fee, we are also going to provide a redeem code for 3300 Gems in Dungeon Defenders II.
     
  • We are going to provide a redeem code for 1100 Gems in Dungeon Defenders II for international backers who pay the shipping fee and then put in a ticket to have the shipping fee refunded, to compensate for the fact that you are not getting a t-shirt/poster (depending on your tier).
     
  • Downgrade your pledge below the $40 (USD) pledge tier that does not have any physical goods. You would miss out on any higher pledge digital bonuses, but this would give BackerKit credit, allowing you to use any excess funds to be spent toward other goods (such as an additional copy for a friend or another platform to play with cross-saves). This would not require any additional shipping fees as there are not any physical goods to receive.
     
  • Refund the entire pledge.

For any option that requires a downgrade or refund, please contact preorder@chromatic.games . We want to make sure that our supporters are taken care of and happy, without making others feel left out. This is what we want to do to help make an unfortunate situation into a better one. We’ll offer clarity where we can, and to keep things concise, we’ll be moving any further discussions on the topic to this thread so that it’s easier for information to be disseminated.

We’re currently manually working through all the support tickets that we’ve received ourselves instead of BackerKit support, as we want to make sure that every bit of support is appropriately handled, so it might take a little longer, but we believe we'll have a better outcome as a result.

Moving forward, we’ll do our best to avoid things of this nature. We’re still working hard, and will have some amazing stuff to show for DD:A over the next couple of months.

For Etheria!

Chromatic Games
 

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Posted (edited)

Its still unfortunate that this information and offer comes at this stage and some backers may not be happy. Im glad you are offering a digital reward as a measure of compensation although it may not suit everyone,. Its also nice to see a third option for those not wishing to pay for delivery. I had assumed that there were circumstances you had not planned for and tried to remain fair to yourselves. I still wish that during the duration of the kickstarter there was some mention that delivery charges may be additional. Just a hint of this would of avoided allot of the threads and posts made so far. I just hope that any digital goods not tied to DDA are given out reasonably soon or at least an ETA of such given. Not knowing your plan for when we will get what we have paid for will just get even more negative threads. Please try to be proactive and not retroactive, this will go along way to rebuilding our faith in you.

Edited by dizzydiana
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Posted (edited)

Thank you for the explanation, I do apprecciate it.  It's really good to see that you're trying to put things right and  it's also nice to see an open thread that we can engage with.

I can understand  it would be very difficult for you to make everyone happy. Since I do play DD2, I would be satisfied receiving gems.

However, as much as I, and others might apprectiate it, I do think that the amount of gems on offer is on the low side (in terms of monetary value) and I'm not quite sure how you came to that figure.. 1100 gems would set me back £7.99 here in the UK.. (around 10$) That's one cheap t-shirt and poster!.. 10$ would only cover half the cost of a shirt alone, considering you have them priced at 20$ in your backer store. Then you have to take into account the poster's value. 

Additionally, although 3300 gems would seem to cover the 30$ postage, It's not really comparable. For example, the option is always there for DD2 players to purchase gems in game should they chose to do so at thier own free will. In this case offering to 'trade' gems as a reinbursement for postage costs or, to make up for a loss in physical goods isn't the same, as no other option is viable without either of us losing out in some way, financially or otherwise. 

With all that said, you have come up with a reasonable solution that may please a fair number of us, but with the utmost respect to you all at Chromatic, I think you could to be a little more realistic with the amount of gems on offer, and maybe look more at a fourth solution, like creating a custom bundle for those wishing to downgrade?  

Best regards to you all, keep up the hard work. Really looking forward to see what awesomeness DD:A will have in store for us! 

 

Edited by All Your Yeahs

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Posted (edited)

Thank you, I appreciate the work you are doing here but I would like a refund.

I closed my eyes on any DD2 costumes from tiers reward since I don't play the game. So I don't see what gems for a game I don't play will change.

Also:

Quote

During our Kickstarter campaign, we had to then pivot and get setup with BackerKit very quickly. We ended up working with a local company to do fulfillment and decided to soften the blow of having to pay for international shipping by eating a portion of the shipping cost.

"During" the campaign you knew that non US backers will have to pay but didn't say anything. This is the problem here, if you told us back then we could have adjusted our pledge or cancel it without going through all this.

 

The 3rd option looks good but what I'm going to do with another game key ? Told my friend about the kickstarter and we both backed, I bought a gaming computer and don't own any consoles.

I still have DD1 collection in my steam inventory from back when you announced the end of DDE and don't wan't to have a DDA key (that will probably have an expiration date).

Edited by Matthew974
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Great! This is better than nothing! But... not all of us play DD2. There is a reason why I backed this project in the first place - I only enjoyed the style, game-play and feel of the first game. So the extra gems doesn't really help. Right now its either me sending my stuff to a random address(in my case a drop shipping company, which if asks for too much money -  I will let them keep the goods) and thus not pay the 30 dollars. Or pay the 30 dollars and wait for a refund (which may take quite some time). I would have loved to receive a extra game key for my blunder, or an in-game DD:A item.

In the end, this is better than nothing. Some people on this forum will accept this result (Though 1100 gems does not seem like a huge amount? )

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I wonder if it might be possible especially for those with no use or desire for DD2 gems to offer something like a giraffe on a treadmill pet for DDA? With backers all intending to get DDA it would make more sense top offer some digital reward for that instead. I am quite happy with the existing offer as it does show some good faith on your part, but others are not. I realise you offering gems was a way to reward customers earlier, but perhaps backers would be happy to wait if the offer was tied to DDA. I personally was not looking for compensation, just upset at the lack of information before I backed. Please consider offering some sort of digital reward tied to DDA like a pet or costume at least as an option for those not wishing gems.

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34 minutes ago, dizzydiana said:

Please consider offering some sort of digital reward tied to DDA like a pet or costume at least as an option for those not wishing gems.

This would be a very good solution. 

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Just make a stab at yourselves and provide an in game gag item like a "Sword of Developer regret" or a "Tunic of Company shame" as gift.  Beats a pittance worth of "Gems" for a game a lot of folks never had an interest in.

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I don't think giving DDA exclusive reward instead of gems is a good idea. US backer will not be able to get it and another riot will start. But I still don't think giving gems is a good idea, some people backed because you said that Awakened will capture the magic of DDI. Guess what I hate DDII, having to pay for additional bag/chest/heroes/..., always online, average 600 players daily on steam.

 

I want to say something about this part:

Quote

The guidance we had received from the fulfillment company we were going to use insisted that this was the best practice

I looked at more than 20 ongoing project about different thing (games, art, music, sand drawing thing,...), project going from 200$ to 4m$ (yes 4 million, I guess people like 3d printer) and all of them put the shipping in the campaign. So people know what they have to pay. You don't wan't to put it in the campaign ? Fine put it in the FAQ but at least tell us that we will have to pay.

In France: "the delivery costs is responsibility of the seller and removal expense of the buyer, unless stipulation of the contrary". I buy on Amazon, I pay shipping at checkout, bought my phone OP5T, I paid shipping at checkout. The only time I had to pay an additional fee was because the package was stuck at customs post and I had to pay taxes. 

In EU: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shipping-delivery/index_en.htm

Quote

Delivery costs
You must always be clearly informed of the total price for your purchase, including delivery and other related costs.

I don't need to quote you again right ? You knew during the kickstarter...

I want a refund of my 75$ pledge.

Thank you.

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Wish i were as polite as you are Matthew, i just can't handle the nonsense and go about with a different tone like here: 

I hope they will refund some of us with this opinion... and see that we cannot be made 'happy or at least neutrally' ok with DD2 in-game goods.

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Quote

4. Don’t wait to issue refunds.
If you have a few backers who decide that they’d like to cancel their pledge and request a refund after the campaign—please take it seriously and just do it. Don’t waste time negotiating. You want to give refunds immediately so you don’t get any chargebacks. If you get enough of them it could be a threat to your relationship with your payment processor and turn into a huge problem for you. You can easily give refunds via Stripe on Kickstarter, or via credit card or Paypal on Indiegogo. Also, it’s handy to keep track of all your refunds in an excel spreadsheet.

lol https://www.backerkit.com/blog/12-top-5-things-to-know-when-your-campaign-ends/

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I really wanted the t-shirt but I can not justify 30 shipping + 40% import duties on the total value (t-shirt and poster + shipping) customs would charge me.

 

I understand you are a small company and mistakes can happen, 

but 1100 gems instead of a t-shirt and a poster seems like a really cheap replacement. at least offer the same value in gems as the poster and t-shirt are on your store.

USA backers get 30$ value in physical goods, EU backers can either pay over 50 euros on top to get the same or get a digital reward for an older game worth only 10$

Seems not fair, even for a DD2 player like myself it feels cheap.

 

I will not do a chargeback out of sympathy for a small company like chromatic, if this was any other big gaming company I would have done the chargeback without even posting comment.

 

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I'm trying to fill in my survey but like many have an issue with the shipping cost. In this mentioned post it is mentioned that I can "Pay the shipping fee, and in the address put "I do not want the physical goods"". So my question is if I cant just set the shipping country to USA and write "I do not want the physical goods" there so I dont have to pay the shipping fee up front? Or will this create issues later on with region locking codes or something of the kind?

Also I just wish to double check that in the $75 dollar tier the only item that would be shipped is the T-Shirt? All other rewards will be delivered by mail or on Kickstarter?

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4 hours ago, ezelking said:

I'm trying to fill in my survey but like many have an issue with the shipping cost. In this mentioned post it is mentioned that I can "Pay the shipping fee, and in the address put "I do not want the physical goods"". So my question is if I cant just set the shipping country to USA and write "I do not want the physical goods" there so I dont have to pay the shipping fee up front? Or will this create issues later on with region locking codes or something of the kind?

Also I just wish to double check that in the $75 dollar tier the only item that would be shipped is the T-Shirt? All other rewards will be delivered by mail or on Kickstarter?

  Stores Like PSN have different top ups and stores depending on region so if you requested a game key for console I could see a problem  (you could always make a fake account though) . If you only wish to play on PC I dont forsee any region locking as most store fronts like Steam have the same stores everywhere just with languages to suit yourself. The only restrictions on PC are down to different countries policies on censorship etc which DDA should not have any issues with.

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I dont want Gems in DD2... i already have heaps... i'd perfer to just get a season pass for DDA... you know the game i supported with the kickstarter ;)

The compensation should be for the game involved not some other game.. once DDA is out i dont expect i would play DD2 at all.. and i have everything i want to buy with gems in DD2 already.. so its a complete waste for me.. and there are many other players that dont even play DD2 to begin with..

again.. Support and Compensate for the game we have purchased not another game.

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11 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

  Stores Like PSN have different top ups and stores depending on region so if you requested a game key for console I could see a problem  (you could always make a fake account though) . If you only wish to play on PC I dont forsee any region locking as most store fronts like Steam have the same stores everywhere just with languages to suit yourself. The only restrictions on PC are down to different countries policies on censorship etc which DDA should not have any issues with.

Yeah I will be using steam although I believe there still is region locking on there for some games, could anyone from Chromatic confirm or deny whether there will be region locking on steam codes? Or else I would like know how I should go about requesting a refund for the shipping fees. In the previous post it simply says: "...and we will refund you the shipping cost." but in this one it is mentioned that I should submit a ticket ("and then put in a ticket to have the shipping fee refunded"), where would I have to submit this ticket?

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Please listen to what people are saying. You have to understand that you messed up by not posting anything about delivery upfront and actually broke law in some of the countries you sold.

Kickstarter does give the option on startup to list an estimated delivery, or at the very least, you could yourselves have left notices clearly in any point of the description about the potential delivery costs. By leaving it out completley, you advertised it as being included in that tier. Whatever happened after with the cost of delivery or its fullfilments is not an excuse for a failure to inform at the start. You chose to do this.

If you have to eat costs, you have to eat costs. Even though it doesn't affect me personally and could be detrimental to the game I am excited for (it is a kickstart after all) so I personally have no benefit, it should never be on the consumer to pay for your mistakes and it does not seem right for this to happen in the slightest.

Gems for your previous game are not a replacement to physical goods. It just makes them pay you a different way for something not everyone wants and is why you can't bait and switch.

It also hasn't gone amiss, that you have not really even apologised, but stated excuses on your failure, making it seem like you are 'trying hard' to fix a problem that isn't your own. Own it and sort it. These people have shown they care about the success of your product and many have paid above and beyond to support you. The last thing we need are them backing out with chargebacks and other methods.

Eat the delivery costs, or give partial refunds for those physical goods as an option. Most cases of this would be treated as fraud. Nobody believes that is the intention, so prove them right.

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Posted (edited)

o/ First off... Thank you Chromatic for taking a hit for us so the shipping is "only" 30$...

Secondly... i dont want your dirty DD2 gems, i dont play DD2 and i dont enjoy DD2. And i was in all honesty not happy with the kickstart offers giving people DD2 skins and rewards. since i got the understanding that this would be a "remake of DD1". Although i do see the marketing point off it... i do not agree!

 

Now thirdly my real point... Am i the only one seing a semi-easy solutions?
People pay 30$ for shipping(+ taxed inside country). Unless your in america, now this in doesnt seem fair right? So heres some solutions that in my opinion is possible with a bit of love..

1. Give us something extra, a DDA pillow, plush pet? Something that sends us the message "We fucked up, were trying to be better". NOW, as mentioned in other peoples comments... NA might go "why do they get extras? not our fault they live in stupid EU/Asia or w/e", now theyre right... so what do you do?!?! 

You take what you gave us non NA peasants and put it in the store for 30$ - Problem solved

 

2. Upgrade the pledge. Alrighty, so some one pledged 75$? why not give them the pledge reward for 100$?(possibly excluding some extreme rewards). This would again, show us non NA people that you do still care about people outside of NA, and that you wish for us to get the things we payed for. Cause lets be real here... a Forum title, a Digital soundtrack or keys for DD2/DDA costumes/skins doesn't cost you shit.

If NA people were to complain here... i only see the simple reason to say "well they payed 30$ more then you, pay up or suck it up" :-)

 

3. Last solution for now, is honestly a middle finger to the guys and gals recieving it for free shipping(i just want to put this up as an option, would not recommend it however).

We pay 30$ for shipping they dont... Or do they? the solution to make it cheaper for uss is easy! You simply make NA pay 30$ for shipping aswell!, the money not needed for shipping will be spent on making the shipping cheaper for us non NA people! - Epic Winning

Now, ofcourse this is to late... cause im voicing it here, so NA people will know, BUT this is what you could had done from the start.


Now with my amazing solutions given, from what i've understood your post on here is that you took this goal: "Chromatic’s goal is for our team to remain independent and to be able to maintain a “player first” mentality. " And went "well... you know what? Players are annoying anyway, lets just make sum munaaaay" (i suggest reading that in Rick sanchez voice for a giggle).

Reading the options that was given, i am again grateful that you take a fall for us to "only pay 30$", but the whole "Player first" mentality isnt there, if it was... you shouldnt have had this problem from the start... you should have informed us at the pledge that customs for shipping might apply and so on and so on.

 

I am extremly hungover writing this, and since english isnt my first language, im about as bad on writing it as i am with my first language(ACTUALLY TERRIBLE, HOW DID I EVEN MAKE IT THRU SCHOOL?!??!!) So things being spellt wrong and sentences being weird/awkvard might come... Please do PM me what to change, and how to change it if you find something like this.

Edit1: BTW please change so im not Junior Defender :( My mom says im a big boi...

Kind Regards MrRandomGuy
Cheers time to barbeque 

gettyimages-73726819-1024x1024 (2).jpg

Edited by MrRandomGuy
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Posted (edited)

As I mentioned before I feel most but perhaps not all would be allot happier if the digital goods as compensation were tied to DDA instead of DD2. Everyone who so far has paid for DDA is intending to play that regardless of whether they play DD2 or not. It just makes more sense to me. Whether its a giraffe on a treadmill, some silly costume, some armor set etc. I dont really care, these wont cost CG actual money so I dont see why not. The gems although are not great does in kind cost them money(loss of revenue), so surely digital goods would be best all round. Please consider this CG as I feel it would help improve relations between yourselves and your customers.

Edited by dizzydiana
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

As I mentioned before I feel most but perhaps not all would be allot happier if the digital goods as compensation were tied to DDA instead of DD2. Everyone who so far has paid for DDA is intending to play that regardless of whether they play DD2 or not. It just makes more sense to me. Whether its a giraffe on a treadmill, some silly costume, some armor set etc. I dont really care, these wont cost CG actual money so I dont see why not. The gems although are not great does in kind cost them money(loss of revenue), so surely digital goods would be best all round. Please consider this CG as I feel it would help improve relations between yourselves and your customers.

Good idea there for sure. But I can't see a single costume or pet being worthy of 30$.. Maybe if we got promised in some way access to future dlc content up to the value of 30$ And that would be a lot of dlc indeed. 

We could perhaps argue on forever on what might be best. All we can 100% agree on at the end of the day is that we want them to make DD:A The greatest ever. 

Taking into account the fact there are over 2000 backers with the physical rewards (and we don't know what portion of those backers are from outside of the U.S.) and the fact that Chromatic have already 'ate' a portion of that cost (and again, a figure we don't know) 

Just to speculate, If 50% of those 2000+ backers were outside of the U.S  it would mean a whopping $30,000 or more.. or less.. to cover the rest of the shipping cost.

Chromatic made a mistake. They're human, and what's done is done. 

Say they just took it on the chin and ate the rest of the cost, worse case for all of us would mean either dropping down a flex goal or maybe enduring some delay in the game..

They've already eaten a portion of the cost. Why not go the WHOLE way? (It can be assumed that it was taken out of the Kickstarter fund anyway unless they had spare change lying around) either way, they paid part of it. 

So basically give a FULL REFUND to those who have already paid shipping. 

To mitigate their cost and to lessen any potential impact on the production of the game (if any); 

-They could offer us a meaningful amount of DD2 gems (for those that want them) so that current and new DD2 players can splash out a bit, have some fun and make the most of the game up to, and beyond the launch of DD:A, which could also act as another path to promote interest and get new backers. 

-And as a second option, they could offer us something premium that's DD:A related, (like a future dlc bundle pass, themed hero costume set etc)

They simply add these two options direct to the Backer store (and maybe the DD2 emporium?) available as a limited time only and one-off special purchase for ALL backers and DD2 players. Pricing wise, each bundle would have to be affordable, lets say between 10$ and 25$  That above all, must represent great value for money. 

Those are just my thoughts and suggestions..

 

Edited by All Your Yeahs

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I am willing to wager a part of the reason DD2 rewards were chosen was because they could be delivered in the present, and not down the line in Oct in a game without an easy equivalent. Still, the option to chose would be a good compromise at this point. Special flair or pet? VIP room? Idk... I play DD2 so i am a bad judge at the equivalent exchange cuz I'd love gems. 

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Another question.

Don't you think you should post this on the Kickstarter itself, for those who are unaware what to do and are not members here?

You need to be clearer and converse more when it comes to issues like this. There are people out their not filling in their surveys as they don't know what to do about the shipping. That is your primary communication point as that is where your backers start.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, LemonyNebula said:

ere are people out their not filling in their surveys as they don't know what to do about the shipping. 

About this, is there a deadline until u lose everything because I don't respond to the survey untill this is resolved? 

Because they haven't said a thing for a week now..... 

Edited by FriedKentacoBell
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