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The build timer in DD1 was originally intended to be acontrollable setting, but t hat was tossed out, in favor of lower difficulties not having it and higher ones having it. I'm not a big fan of tihs as its a very artificial sort of difficulty, especially on some of the larger maps in the game that are difficult to build quickly, especially alone.

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I disagree with timer being mandatory 


In DD2 I've spent hours trying to do 1 floor because of the insane difficulty (talking floor 945+) 
It is possible to have challenge while not having any timer

In DD1 Winter wonderland NM is super easy !!! But it is also super boring !!! The timer makes it so annoying !!

Overall can a build timer bring anything to the game ? Yes if it's for a special challenge mission, or even an option you can choose (example reward an achievement for completing all maps with the timer option). But in general gameplay it wll just make the game more annoying !

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Oh kids need something.. timer fail. It seems timers will be a thing. I will have to wait to reserve judgement until i see how it plays but it will be  death of DDA for me. I want to play on my time frame.

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Posted (edited)

Smh, just give all options and make everything optional. ugh. 

Those who wanna build to timer, turn your timer on; those who don't, turn it off. 

Those who wanna spend 5 minute running back and forth to forge to swap, feel free to do so; those who don't, just open your hero deck and swap. 

Literally no reason to force anyone's play style onto others. Instead of making part of the community happy, just make everyone happy the same time.... :shrug: :classic_huh:

 

Edit: Isn't it game's best interest to always create various modes w/ various options, so that ppl w/ diff interests and play styles can ALL HAVE FUN? How did we even get started w/ this "u have to play the way I like it" thing? (That goes both ways. Don't force no-timer on all players, give us options to turn timer on to our interests; and don't force timer on all players, give us options  to turn it off to our interests) (same goes for hero deck, see above)

Edited by hailminion
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, uzar said:

Oh kids need something.. timer fail. It seems timers will be a thing. I will have to wait to reserve judgement until i see how it plays but it will be  death of DDA for me. I want to play on my time frame.

I have a similar response hearing that build timers will be a thing in DDA. My main concern is how frustrating it will be for players in handheld mode on switch as well as consoles in general. Controllers will never allow the same functionality that keyboard and mouse allows which always shows when strategy games are ported to console. If a game is being planned for both console release and PC i feel it should be made with consoles in mind. This was by far the biggest issue for DD1 when it released it was a far more frustrating experience on console than on PC. Even DD2 gives an impression that consoles are an afterthought compared to PC. i am glad they are working with nintendo to optimise gameplay for the switch but I still worry with the smaller screen and the joycons how more difficult it may be to play compared to the other platforms. i only see adding build timers in the mix as adding in even more frustration. with cross saves being a thing you should be able to go between all 4 platforms and have the same amount of enjoyment and difficulty although admittedly graphics and controls will have to be adjusted for each platform.

Edited by dizzydiana
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The literal premise of the game is tower defense. We are defending crystals from the enemies. They are not going to respect your 23 minute build, this is not a casual "all the time in the world" invasion. They will destroy it. If you can't build in a timely manner, that is clearly part of the challenge to encourage learning the map, knowing your characters, and learning how to build. If you can successfully load into the map and look around and spend time in it like in DD2, there is 0 problem with a timer. I have had again, 0 problems with DD timers after practice and actually holds you to some sort of playable standard.

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57 minutes ago, Garzhod said:

The literal premise of the game is tower defense. We are defending crystals from the enemies. They are not going to respect your 23 minute build, this is not a casual "all the time in the world" invasion. They will destroy it. If you can't build in a timely manner, that is clearly part of the challenge to encourage learning the map, knowing your characters, and learning how to build. If you can successfully load into the map and look around and spend time in it like in DD2, there is 0 problem with a timer. I have had again, 0 problems with DD timers after practice and actually holds you to some sort of playable standard.

well you can check the “Build Timer” box :). the rest of us will take all the time as much time as we want.  

Just think of the Build Timer box like the energy field from Avengers infinity war. They just died if they tried to get through, but then when they were ready(aka set up all their defenses), they disabled a portion of the barrier to allow the enemies through.

isnt it crazy how you can relate this to that?:]

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27 minutes ago, super_slayan said:

well you can check the “Build Timer” box :). the rest of us will take all the time as much time as we want.  

Just think of the Build Timer box like the energy field from Avengers infinity war. They just died if they tried to get through, but then when they were ready(aka set up all their defenses), they disabled a portion of the barrier to allow the enemies through.

isnt it crazy how you can relate this to that?:]

 

1. "well you can check the “Build Timer” box :). the rest of us will take all the time as much time as we want.  "

What build timer box? There isn't one. They will not do one as they intended in DD1 because difficulty needs to remain the same per person per difficulty to get the same things. Otherwise, sure, you can check your build timer, and I won't. But hey! Ill get 40% better loot for challenging myself. Is that a great idea or what?????  It doesn't work. There will not be a toggle for balance reasons, its either going to be included or not.

People fail to remember DD1's timers are only on the hardest campaign difficulties and not on survival maps. This makes sense for continuing the difficulty increase, and you should be familiar and capable enough if you go through the entire game on easy - insane to be able to build in a very friendly time limit. I support upping the ante for clearly experienced players who can.. play the game and continue increasing their skill and experience to reach the later maps. People are scaring themselves into believing its ruining the entire game experience when it only will effect a minority of players even making it to Nightmare and Endgame.

 

2. "Just think of the Build Timer box like the energy field from Avengers infinity war. They just died if they tried to get through, but then when they were ready(aka set up all their defenses), they disabled a portion of the barrier to allow the enemies through. isnt it crazy how you can relate this to that?:]"

No because I'v never seen the movie. We are defending against an army. In one spot. Not going any where. They know where we are and will destroy your crystal. Are they gonna patiently wait for you to build your defenses? Isn't it crazy to compared this to a fantasy movie? :)

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Perhaps since it has been some time for many current players of DD1 to remember the changes made to the game(mostly left out of console grr) it is skewing the "love"of timers. Or how using a controller alters gameplay. Which is why I am concerned about consoles being way more frustrating than PC. 

originally build timers WERE present in survival and optional up to hard but forced in insane (still exists on console). they were removed from the Pc version (hmmm)

On controller trying to place minions when using a controller as your primary input device is a very tedious experience. If I click on the minimap to summon a minion at a distance NOTHING happens I have to walk to the area or scroll the screen to where I wish to summon. So I have to presume if this hero was added to console it would be the same aggrivation there.

Dropping mana on console(controller) - press select press triangle press triangle again then press X to confirm - on PC press M

On keyboard + mouse ability to hotkey almost if not all actions possible on controller able to hot key FOUR actions

On pc strength drain auras remove elemental resistance  on console they only reduce damage to defenses - this also used to exist on PC version and was removed.

Consoles never got any of the DLCS other than shard maps and those are not fun with just 4 different heroes......

Many QOL did come in with DD2 to console gameplay like being able to press L2 plus Dpad to drop mana or touchpad to start a wave which I admit would make build timers a little easier to work with. But one must ask why if build timers are still popular are they not a feature in every map you can play not just one and a few in mastery (which are generally disliked).Even though you dont have to run around gathering chests and only have a small pool of mana to work with unlike DD1 you are given enough mana to cover the DU available yet it was still felt that build timers were generally un-necessary or unwanted. I struggle to see where build timers add "fun" to the game especially when using a controller is allot more clunky and laborious than keyboard and mouse. They never seemed to be anything other than a speed check unless you had enough movement speed and casting speed on your hero it was almost impossible regardless of how good you are to place defenses. How is having 100 (orignially 75) movement speed and over 150 casting speed actual strategy? Perhaps i am missing something.

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3 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

 

1. "originally build timers WERE present in survival and optional up to hard but forced in insane (still exists on console). they were removed from the Pc version (hmmm)"

PC version is the definitive DD version supported by the developers until it was dropped for DD2. Console development was halted pretty fast due to limitations, timely patches, dlc, etc that were causing cross play issues with keeping all versions patched to the same standard. This means they understood the issue with having those timers early by removing it on PC, the version they were supporting at the time. It can cause players to panic, new players to feel pressure or out of place, etc. All very valid concerns, which is why it was removed and rightfully put to only the hardest difficulties. I certaintly am not a fan of them being present in the entire game. However, there are only so many ways to increase difficulty during build phase. Limited resources (mana) were a major player for build phases strategies, and the timer added a new element for only the most determined players to reach the highest they could.

 

2. "On controller trying to place minions when using a controller as your primary input device is a very tedious experience. If I click on the minimap to summon a minion at a distance NOTHING happens I have to walk to the area or scroll the screen to where I wish to summon. So I have to presume if this hero was added to console it would be the same aggrivation there."

So I do not play with a controller, but know many in the DD1 actually DO in a very successful way. One of our highest tier players actually exclusively uses a controller and.. has had no issues. Rebinding controls, and even now with steam controller support, you can make any combo you desire. Every map with our current build timers with a controller is still possible, even with the newer things designed exclusively around the steam version with the ONLY target being high end players with full mouse/keyboard control.

 

3. "On pc strength drain auras remove elemental resistance  on console they only reduce damage to defenses - this also used to exist on PC version and was removed."

4. "Consoles never got any of the DLCS other than shard maps and those are not fun with just 4 different heroes......"

To my knowledge it does both on PC as is intended by the aura. Again, consoles stopped being supported rather quickly and should not be used as a reflection of DD1 - the PC copy is more on aim what the developers hoped to achieve.

 

5. "Many QOL did come in with DD2 to console gameplay like being able to press L2 plus Dpad to drop mana or touchpad to start a wave which I admit would make build timers a little easier to work with. But one must ask why if build timers are still popular are they not a feature in every map you can play not just one and a few in mastery (which are generally disliked).Even though you dont have to run around gathering chests and only have a small pool of mana to work with unlike DD1 you are given enough mana to cover the DU available yet it was still felt that build timers were generally un-necessary or unwanted. I struggle to see where build timers add "fun" to the game especially when using a controller is allot more clunky and laborious than keyboard and mouse."

I don't directly agree or say the build timers are "fun". Rather, an important extra element to add more difficulty during the build phase. Increasing the difficulty is not just straight "add more mobs, add more hp, reduce DU", but increasing it in more subtle ways to help curve out the game. Build timers towards the higher or highest difficulty helps add another layer of subtle difficulty, which is important to a gear farming game like DD where you can spend 30 hours or 3000. If they are going cross platform, they WILL take into account users on controllers, the switch, etc to make sure its balanced. I don't think you'll have to worry about it being so close, that you barely have 1 second to spare with perfect movements. Like i had mentioned the difficulty curve above, it is generally very liberal with time early on and progressively lower as your skill grows to accompany it.

 

6. They never seemed to be anything other than a speed check unless you had enough movement speed and casting speed on your hero it was almost impossible regardless of how good you are to place defenses. How is having 100 (orignially 75) movement speed and over 150 casting speed actual strategy? Perhaps i am missing something.

In the very early part of the game, there will not be build timers and it will not be relevant being under the speed cap of 100 or having low casting. Again, consoles are beyond outdated, I could compare this to mobile which I played if you wanted, but that is not a fair comparison. By the time you reach nightmare where the build timer exists, your gear will have sufficient stats that speed and cast rate is not a concern on ANY single character for build timer. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Garzhod said:

By the time you reach nightmare where the build timer exists, your gear will have sufficient stats that speed and cast rate is not a concern on ANY single character for build timer. 

then why have it???

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This applies to dd1 timers n stuff and nothing about dd2

not going to say much about this cuz i already said a lot lol, but my 9 year old cousin can play dd1 on nmhc on an xbox controller. i get that timers are annoying, sure. but using disabilities as a driving point for an argument is a very weak foundation to make a solid argument. i understand that disabilities DO limit how well or how actively youre able to play compared to the hardcore gamers and whatnot, but seriously pushing your disabilities on the game developers is really sad. not only should you feel ashamed of doing so, youre creating unecessary stress on the developers and anyone who wants to counter this.

the game developers should NOT be put in a position where they have to change how the game is played to compensate for the small minority of players that dislike content. and they should NOT feel like they have to change their content out of pity or from drama.

if playing the game is literally impossible then obviously youll need a helping hand but if its something like "my anxiety makes me freeze up when im under pressure from time restraints" youll just have to tough through it. thats just part of the game.

lastly if anyone says that they cant beat a map due to timers being too difficult, its not that the game is too hard its that you just havent had enough time ingame to be good at it yet.

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1 minute ago, Jaws_420 said:

then why have it???

you get to the point where your towers are so good that you dont need to prioritize dealing damage to anything with your character to beat most maps, so why make it so you can run around and shoot people. thats literally the point most people are making

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2 minutes ago, Jaws_420 said:

then why have it???

This was concerning character run speed and cast rate. On the deprecated console versions. The original poster was using console versions which have very low stats, limited maps with timers, etc, as a reason to why timers shouldn't exist, as it was a legitimate concern you actually COULDN'T build fast enough because the rate at which you PLACED towers and RAN to them was limited by the game. This is not the case in the PC version that was supported.

 

Why have it? Because it requires you to know what towers to place, where, what characters, the map, where mana is, etc. Literally as I explained above to add difficulty to the build phase in Nightmare when you are reaching the upper tiers of difficulty and game knowledge. 

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and this is why it should be optional. the super hardcore people want a timer and the other 95% of us don’t want it.

 

It can be easily settled with it being an optional thing that grants like 10% bonus XP for having a timer on.

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im all for it being an optional thing tbh. i just want the game to reward you for making it harder. im just upset that people are complaining this much and are pushing their problems and disabilities on everyone else. id be so damn ashamed of myself if i did that.

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Just now, Bonnabelle said:

im all for it being an optional thing tbh. i just want the game to reward you for making it harder. im just upset that people are complaining this much and are pushing their problems and disabilities on everyone else. id be so damn ashamed of myself if i did that.

hence the 10% xp boost and time saved by making the timer force you to be faster

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why only 10% bonus xp? we all know once you hit level cap the xp is going to be useless and the option is going to be garbage. it should increase loot quality significantly 

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2 minutes ago, Sneeze said:

why only 10% bonus xp? we all know once you hit level cap the xp is going to be useless and the option is going to be garbage. it should increase loot quality significantly 

cause people obviously want it to make the game harder and i guess more fun by being timed. why should they get better gear just because they can build faaster? it’s still the same level of difficulty and still completing the same map. It makes no sense to get better gear for that

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1 minute ago, super_slayan said:

cause people obviously want it to make the game harder and i guess more fun by being timed. why should they get better gear just because they can build faaster? it’s still the same level of difficulty and still completing the same map. It makes no sense to get better gear for that

ok so shouldnt you get the best gear for completing the hardest content on the hardest difficulty, with all the odds stacked against you? higher "risk" should be given higher reward

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1 minute ago, Sneeze said:

ok so shouldnt you get the best gear for completing the hardest content on the hardest difficulty, with all the odds stacked against you? higher "risk" should be given higher reward

higher risk? having a timer on a build is a high risk? you can just restart the level if you don’t get the build off in time. it’s still the same level and same difficulty. play a harder difficulty if you want better things 

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1 minute ago, super_slayan said:

higher risk? having a timer on a build is a high risk? you can just restart the level if you don’t get the build off in time. it’s still the same level and same difficulty. play a harder difficulty if you want better things 

perfect so you can see that you can just restart the level if you cant build in time. thread

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Just now, Sneeze said:

perfect so you can see that you can just restart the level if you cant build in time. thread

talking about you hardcore players. others like me have a hard time building. it can take me at least 5 - 10 minutes to build

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Bonnabelle said:

im just upset that people are complaining this much and are pushing their problems and disabilities on everyone else. id be so damn ashamed of myself if i did that.

That is an intensely bigoted and rude thing to say. I find that highly offensive. Help your fellow person instead of knocking them down. It's just a freaking game. No need to kick people in the teeth just because they can't do things as well as you. There is zero shame in seeking accommodations for one's disability, and the world would be better off if more people did so. 

Edited by Jaws_420
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1 hour ago, Jaws_420 said:

That is an intensely bigoted and rude thing to say. I find that highly offensive.

Take your offense outside.

1 hour ago, Jaws_420 said:

TIt's just a freaking game. No need to kick people in the teeth just because they can't do things as well as you. There is zero shame in seeking accommodations for one's disability, and the world would be better off if more people did so. 

In this case accommodating for a disability actively kicks in the teeth of those who wish to master the intended mechanics of the game by dumbing down one of the few mechanics that is capable of adding difficulty in build phase. Besides, it's just a freaking game. If you don't like it you are perfectly capable of going back to DD2 if you aren't willing to deal with the situations presented to you.

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