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I've seen some posts where people talk about "Build Timer", there are people who like it and other people who don't like it and say they should remove it. I personally don't like it but I think it would be better to enable an option similar to "Hardcore mode" but with "Build Timer", those who want build timer activate it and get better loot and more experience because they add more difficulty (similar to Hardcore Mode) and those who don't want build timer don't activate it. In this way everyone will be happy =).

 

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i do not see a reason to change this setting. as someone who played a lot of dd1 i dont see any issue with build timers. the maps are quite generous as it is with some giving you as much as 5 minutes to complete your build. if you dont want to play with build timers you are free to turn down the difficulty to something that doesnt have them. if you are trying to nail down a build for a higher difficulty it wouldnt take too long to build everything in a lower difficulty first to get a feel for where everything goes. 

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58 minutes ago, Sneeze said:

if you dont want to play with build timers you are free to turn down the difficulty to something that doesnt have them.

if you are trying to nail down a build for a higher difficulty it wouldnt take too long to build everything in a lower difficulty first to get a feel for where everything goes. 

First sentence basicaly said "If you dont like it then dont play", which with the size of what will eventually be the community, that is bad advertising.

Second sentence has already been addressed in DD2 once and I bet they go with that because more players have hated it more than anything. In DD2 we used to have to grind shards in lower tiers to play higher tiers. With the timer being, "Play lower difficulties to get your build right then play higher difficulties". Since people already hate it, I doubt that's going to be a good answer to the question.

Overall, I think there is a possibility to have both no timers through a natural playthrough and a mode with timers for the challenge, as they have stated on their streams already. This topic has already been discussed vastly already on the forums by the players and addressed by CG themselves. They have also brought up hero swapping during build/combat phase since they will be moving away from Forge interaction and will have inventories accessible anywhere which will change how DD1 would play at a base level and timers are still at a higher level of the game.

Lastly, we have to remember that DD1 is getting quite old as far as games go. Things will need to be changed and revamped to match what current generation games do to bring in a current generation gamer. If you only bow to the older devoted gamers then your playerbase will be much smaller and much less sustainable. This isn't going to be a DD1 remaster, it's going to be DDA using elements of DD1 and DD2 to what is hopefully going to be a better game than both.

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I am one of those people where build timers is an extremely negative experience through disabilities and mental health issues. I was happy when they removed them from DD2. Many more people will be going into DDA from DD2 than DD1 so there may be a backlash over the re-introduction of build timers. Plus keep in mind for survival and pure strategy the timers were turned off by default. That being said as an option that players could activate similar to how hardcore was in DD1 I have no issues. Hardcore offered better loot and XP but not to the point that hardcore was THE ONLY mode worth playing. If implemented in such a way that it is not a huge penalty to play without it,and there are enough players wishing for it then fair enough else no thankyou.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Exglint said:

Lastly, we have to remember that DD1 is getting quite old as far as games go. Things will need to be changed and revamped to match what current generation games do to bring in a current generation gamer. If you only bow to the older devoted gamers then your playerbase will be much smaller and much less sustainable. This isn't going to be a DD1 remaster, it's going to be DDA using elements of DD1 and DD2 to what is hopefully going to be a better game than both.

Whether it is old and whether it is good are 2 different things. If it is old and good it is by default better than something that is new and bad. (I'm not implying no build timers is a bad thing btw) Chasing some "new" concept simply because it is new is incorrect decision making.

Something else I would like to point out that many people are either ignoring or do not remember is that DD1 did not have build timers until you started Insane. Which you aren't going to be doing at level 1. Unlike DD2, in DD1 you will be playing through the main campaign maps at least 1, more likely 2 times before you are ever in a position where build timers become a factor, by which point you are already familiar with the maps.

6 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

I was happy when they removed them from DD2.

TECHNICALLY

 

There is still a build timer in DD2

KUIpemY.png

 

It just only happens twice.

6 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

Hardcore offered better loot and XP but not to the point that hardcore was THE ONLY mode worth playing.

Then what would be the point of playing it?

If the build timer was short enough to effectively change how you build but doesn't give significantly better rewards, what is the point of having it?

If the build timer was long enough to not matter and didn't give significantly better rewards, what is the point of not having it?

 

You have to reward people meaningfully for increasing the difficulty otherwise it's wasted effort that could have gone to something else.

Edited by Caimen0
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Eh what is good or bad is decided by the person reviewing it. Though some things are objectively good or bad which I have faith CG knows after two games. I have hope that DDA is super amazing and that it brings in tons of people into the genre which makes DD3 have a huge budget and will make that even bigger and better. :D

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they need to get rid of timers. that doesn’t add any difficulty. if they want to make the game more difficult then actually make it more difficult. timers are annoying and dont do anything to make the game harder or more fun. 

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whats the point to not having timers? obviously at lower difficulties it makes sense but there shouldnt be a reason to spend 10 minutes on build phase trying to position something correctly

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1 minute ago, Sneeze said:

whats the point to not having timers? obviously at lower difficulties it makes sense but there shouldnt be a reason to spend 10 minutes on build phase trying to position something correctly

there’s literally no reason there needs to be a timer. if i want to spend an hour building, i should be able to spend an hour building

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8 hours ago, super_slayan said:

there’s literally no reason there needs to be a timer

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Posted (edited)

I'm against timers as well as optional timers for any kind of benefits as that will just make timers softly mandatory, because this is a loot game and good loot is pretty much a core reason to play. 

If you give us complex enemy schedules, big spreadout maps, multiplayer issues (ie mana collection), and options for def builds - i do not see how build timers help with any of that. Only place i wouldn't mind timers (as much) would be in challenge modes (like mastery). 

Edited by Jaws_420
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Only experience I've got from build timer, is that I need to move my fingers faster than normal, and move the 10s of thinking from in-build-phase to before-build-phase. 

Not like u not allowed to build fast w/o timer. I build way faster than timer when I feel like it, but I also have times when I'm lazy. It just goes back to, when all people can have fun with one way, why do u wanna do it a specific way that doesn't change your play style, but can make some ppl lives harder. 

I just wanna move my figure at the speed I want tbh. Place down a tower, grab a fry, place down a tower, hav a bite of the burger. 

 

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The build timer should be exclusive to Nightmare and Massacre difficulty. I personally loved having that added pressure of getting a build down or parts of my build down to see if it can with stand the first wave of oncoming units. I really enjoyed the do or die situation.

It just added another layer of strategy with how you decided your placement of towers would be the most effective.

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3 minutes ago, KnowsNoLimits said:

The build timer should be exclusive to Nightmare and Massacre difficulty. I personally loved having that added pressure of getting a build down or parts of my build down to see if it can with stand the first wave of oncoming units. I really enjoyed the do or die situation.

It just added another layer of strategy with how you decided your placement of towers would be the most effective.

i really feel this should be optional. i like playing nightmare in DD2 but this would definitely steer me away from that if this was implemented into that mode

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i feel if it is implemented, it should only be on the harder difficulties and only optional then.
or maybe even implementing a leader board of sorts with records of the quickest 100 builds or something. with the timer always being on but no penalty for going over the time limit. but maybe some sort of cosmetic bonuses given out monthly to the top build times that completed a level. (maybe cool pet auras and animations)

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again, if u like the timer, just time yourself..... why do u want all people to be timed just cuz half the people want to. 

Really it's exact same concept with many discussion. If you don't like "hot swap" in game phase, u can just don't, but don't eliminate the options for others who want to.

If you like running around back to forge for inventory, u can do that, but don't force the others to run around who don't want to, give em the options to do pocket-inventory. 

It just overall gives a better atmosphere to the community when everyone can have fun, not half the population. 

(I like jumping around and dodge like a maniac, but I don't ask for homing missiles on every player every second so that have they "same difficulty" as I want. If what we want can be semi-accomplished w/o ruining others' game experience, why do we wanna ruin other's game experience)

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Nightmare and Massacre difficulty are supposed to be challenging. Infinite build time in DD2 has made you guys soft. These difficulties are supposed to be keep you on edge and not be a blissful experience where you can take 100 years to place that one tower just right to your liking with no penalties.

It worked well in DD1 and I would love to see it return in DDA.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, KnowsNoLimits said:

Nightmare and Massacre difficulty are supposed to be challenging. Infinite build time in DD2 has made you guys soft. These difficulties are supposed to be keep you on edge and not be a blissful experience where you can take 100 years to place that one tower just right to your liking with no penalties.

It worked well in DD1 and I would love to see it return in DDA.

 

Challenging or frustrating? It depends how you look at it. All buikld timers did for me in DD1 was give me a ton of stress, In a relatively simple boss fight like Throne room where I know the build of by heart (after hundreds of NMMMHC survivals for mana) in NM I am still trying to finish my dang build on the last wave! As I have mentioned I have specific issues that make build timers a total headache for me - Only able to use one hand, slower reactions through a mini stroke + anxiety issues. I know it sounds selfish for me to ask that build timers either be optional or just removed, but I really dont see why having them forced on players is a good idea. Build timers were nothing more than a speed check, nothing at all to do with actual strategy.

Edited by dizzydiana
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1 hour ago, KnowsNoLimits said:

These difficulties are supposed to be keep you on edge and not be a blissful experience where you can take 100 years to place that one tower just right to your liking with no penalties.

I mean, if I want to speed build and almost everyone I know, we can finish building a 60s timer within 30s. It doesn't keep me on the edge at all, nor does it improve our skill, cuz our potential is way passed that. Only difference is, like I said, not allowing us to do typing/eating/building and spend 3 minute with a timer. 

If u are talking about penalty, u really not giving penalty for my building ability, u just giving me penalty for eating an apple and chatting w/ teammates, while playing a strategy game. 

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32 minutes ago, dizzydiana said:

 

Challenging or frustrating? It depends how you look at it. All buikld timers did for me in DD1 was give me a ton of stress, In a relatively simple boss fight like Throne room where I know the build of by heart (after hundreds of NMMMHC survivals for mana) in NM I am still trying to finish my dang build on the last wave! As I have mentioned I have specific issues that make build timers a total headache for me - Only able to use one hand, slower reactions through a mini stroke + anxiety issues. I know it sounds selfish for me to ask that build timers either be optional or just removed, but I really dont see why having them forced on players is a good idea. Build timers were nothing more than a speed check, nothing at all to do with actual strategy.

I disagree, it was all about strategy. 

You needed to strategise tower placements to control the lanes to survive the first wavering finish your build off in the consecutive waves. You describe it adding tension to your gameplay experience, that’s exactly how it should be.

DD2 lacked a ton of strategy and was quite boring with building as close to the lanes as possible on every map. In DD1 you had to figure out choke points to control the mobs.

I can agree they can be included as an optional option, but players who chose to use it should be rewarded with better loot. Just like hardcore mode in DD1.

I understand your disability, but this is a team focused game. The community is pretty decent with helping anyone out, so if you were struggling with build timers you can always team up with others to help you out. My point is the game needs to be challengeing to give the game some longevity.

DDE and DD2 failed in that aspect and gave you more annoyance than challenge with stupid shit like Onslaught which was a major snooze fest. That was more tedious than fun. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KnowsNoLimits said:

DD2 lacked a ton of strategy and was quite boring with building as close to the lanes as possible on every map. In DD1 you had to figure out choke points to control the mobs.

DDE and DD2 failed in that aspect and gave you more annoyance than challenge with stupid shit like Onslaught which was a major snooze fest. That was more tedious than fun. 

If u are experiencing that, u just not playing maps at your level. Playing with loot able to kill nightmare, is a snooze fest when playing in easy mode entry level maps. That's how it is for all games. You don't need to figure out choke points or strategy when you can just op the entire map, you do that when you play challenging maps. Placing close to spawn is called farming efficiently. Why would you turtle build entry level map with end game gear. 

There's a reason that only 5 people are 900+ onslaught and zero at 999. It takes em days to figure out new strategy to push just a few more floors every time they run into new challenges. Takes effort, patience, and trying diff strats when playing the right difficulty. 

Edited by hailminion
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1 hour ago, KnowsNoLimits said:

I disagree, it was all about strategy. 

You needed to strategise tower placements to control the lanes to survive the first wavering finish your build off in the consecutive waves. You describe it adding tension to your gameplay experience, that’s exactly how it should be.

DD2 lacked a ton of strategy and was quite boring with building as close to the lanes as possible on every map. In DD1 you had to figure out choke points to control the mobs.

I can agree they can be included as an optional option, but players who chose to use it should be rewarded with better loot. Just like hardcore mode in DD1.

I understand your disability, but this is a team focused game. The community is pretty decent with helping anyone out, so if you were struggling with build timers you can always team up with others to help you out. My point is the game needs to be challengeing to give the game some longevity.

DDE and DD2 failed in that aspect and gave you more annoyance than challenge with stupid shit like Onslaught which was a major snooze fest. That was more tedious than fun. 

i don’t want to be forced to play with randoms. the game should be able to solo. Being optional but getting better loot doesn’t make it optional. it would pretty much be required if you are getting better loot. i feel like adding the optional timer should give a bit more XP and a bit more gold or maybe some cosmetic rewards

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2 hours ago, super_slayan said:

i don’t want to be forced to play with randoms. the game should be able to solo. Being optional but getting better loot doesn’t make it optional. it would pretty much be required if you are getting better loot. i feel like adding the optional timer should give a bit more XP and a bit more gold or maybe some cosmetic rewards

This is basically my issue as well. One of the main reasons I dont play much DD1 is in order to progress I need to rely on some nice soul running me through the maps I have yet to complete. So far with playing for a week here and there I have managed to do 4 more maps than I had completed this time last year. I dont like to have to rely on others I want to be able to do the content available. I am in the same boat for DD2, for the life of me I seem to have a mental block with Onslaught and have been stuck on floor 29 since they changed it and just gave up entirely. Perhaps its ego, perhaps its stubborness I am not sure, but I would rather help others or just grind/farm than have to feel like begging others to carry me through any part of a game.

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Personally, I would rather have build timers be a gamemode mechanic like mastery or incursion rather than a difficulty itself.

If timers is going to be in DDA, I wouldn't want it to be combined with DD2's unique lane schedules from onslaughts. Or Mastery's one of each or 10 different defenses criteria. That would be just unfun. 

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Posted (edited)

Not everyone likes the stress of build timers. I am at an age where I am trying to reduce stress and that's why I like games that are strategy and have you take your time to think.

 

That being said, I don't mind the timers on some maps that much, and really mind it on others. You can have a timer without it seeming oppressive. There are many maps that have super long build times, as much as 300-600 seconds, and I rarely feel too pressured on those. But there are many maps that the build time is just way too harsh, and even if you have a somewhat rough idea where you wanna build, still is way too much of a mad rush and too much stress. And there are many maps that are almost 100% impossible to build with more than 2-3 heroes on the first wave even if you have picture perfect hero speed, placement, etc. It's compounded when you consider that many of the maps that this is the case on, are the very ones that you NEED more time on due to the overall difficulty. Timers are artificial difficulties. The map is hard enough, the harsh timer isn't needed in addition. One or two that really stand in my mind is temple of love, holiday extravaganza, and winter wonderland was really bad too timer-wise until I got better at it. I remember talay mining complex was bad too. Many maps that are just way too big and require great builds and yet give you almost no time to build. Out of them all, the holiday extravaganza is probably THE worst. That challenge is enough to give anyone not in good health a heart attack on NMHC... (I hate that map if you couldn't guess lol)

 

Some of the newer maps are more fair like CD resurgence, emerald city actually give you ample time to build.

Edited by cirion0000

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