Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
cirion0000

Idea: "Recall" builds

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

This is something I've wanted for a while, but acknowledge it could be considered OP for anything other than survival or non-timed campaign/challenges, and would be troublesome to reconcile with limited mana on the first wave too I admit, not sure what that'd look like.

 

In essence - Some way of "Saving" a build somehow. When you load the map, all of the defenses are automatically placed from memory from the last "saved build" you set up. It will use all of the same towers from the same characters you used (If it can't find that character anymore, its defenses won't be placed). Maybe one way around the mana issue is to only remember the wave 1 build, and then remember the wave 2 build and so forth (and remove the chests from the map so you can't get extra mana). I am sure this would be a nightmare to code, but it'd be cool. Also it would only work for the host (clearly, trying to implement several different people in the saved build would obviously come with a lot of complications).

 

One thing you could do to remove the "OP" factor is make it so you have to "Unlock" the Save option, by beating the map normally first without it. After you've proven your worth (beat it without) then you can save your builds.

 

I love playing with new builds, but eventually, you have a map on farm status and just building the same thing especially on large maps just because tedious after a while, you know? Even worse when it comes to things that you need to farm heavily like coal for example. At the very least, let us do this on Survival maps... it would be a huge quality of life improvement for farming that same map over and over.

 

In particular, on crystalline dimension, it is not inconceivable to spend half or even more of the allotted time (so maybe 30-45 minutes) in total in build phases and that is just extremely tedious. Which actually I have no problem with doing a few times but after that it's just like ughhh =P

Edited by cirion0000
  • Like 4
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the idea on the face on it. Its annoying the building the same defences every time. BUT when you farm maps over and over again, its already quite AFK, with the building part building automated/semi-automated, it makes it more afk.

Its a QOL change, but I think its not one that will add to the game. Just me though :) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This is a topic that has come up quite a bit on the DD2 boards. While i like and applaud the idea, it is something bad in the end. Reinforcing game design that calls for such monotonous gameplay benefits no one.  We would all be way better off if the game had a creativity angle that supports and promotes diversity in builds and stages played. Eliminate the need instead of curing the symptom. 

That said.... DD2 could really use a "last saved build" option in its current iteration. I wish it didn't need it tho...

Edited by Jaws_420
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I can certainly appreciate both sides of the argument that is for sure. Really, I think ultimately it becomes painful when you combine needing to use many many heros for a meta build AND a large map (like CD). You might use as many as 4-6 heros for a good build.

 

Maybe then my real complaint is against massive, very long maps like CD and things that require boring grinds (like coal). Seriously, who thought making you do a map 88 times was a good idea? It's actually what made me quit DD1 years ago LOL.  If I wanted an MMORPG I'd play FFXI or FFXIV or WoW... I disliked that some aspects of DD started to take on MMORPG aspects. I can respect end-game content and survival was great for that. But having to repeat the same map 88 times? Please just no... I get that diamond pets were basically the Cadillac of pets and the work to get one reflected that, but I still disagree with how it was implemented. I think Crystalline Dimension (for how much I have a love hate relationship with), did it mostly right - You got great rewards for winning NMHC, and you only need to win once at least for the skins, but it's going to be tough and you have to be good rather than just mindlessly grind a map 88 times. I prefer that kind of reward system. And in terms of large maps, I mean, CD is literally the worst, because you have three (four if you count the boss gauntlet) maps you have to build on, and if you lose at any point, you gotta do it all again!) Until you're a master at this map on NMHC in particular, it's a royal pain lol. This also tends to discourage anyone but the most geared to bother with it. I get that it can be won with 1k stats, but that's with truly meta builds that most noobs won't be aware of.

 

I feel like if they do another map CD style that we should at LEAST get some "Checkpoint" feature... Like, checkpoint after the first map and if you lose restart at checkpoint rather than the whole map. One might say well just git gud and don't lose and that's not wrong entirely, but meh... I feel like if you can clear one map you're probably strong enough to clear all the maps so I don't see why not.

 

The grind for equipment like Ultimate, especially Ultimate+ and ++ was really really bad too... But at least you don't "need" them to win anything, so, I can somewhat tolerate that. I feel like Ultimate + and ++ armors need to drop at least as often as the weapons in + and ++. Basically alleviating grind would reduce the need for saving builds. That's honestly another reason I quit. I had already "won" virtually every map, at that point, my goals shifted for grinding Ultimate gears, until I realized Ultimate armors drop ULTRA rarely. In 1,400 hours of gameplay I had only seen one or two pieces of ultimate armor. That's just bad, bad RNG design. You might argue that's WORSE than mmorpg's even. You could probably get a full set of tier 2 armors back in WoW when level 60 was the max, for less than 1,400 hours, at least when you count the hours spend in dungeons. I can still respect them being hard to get, which means they should make the only "easy" way to get ultimate, ultimate+, ultimate++ armors is the most difficult map(s). From what I recall, even Sky city on NMHCMM RARELY dropped high end armors. The rewards really didn't justify the difficulty (You can't readily win sky city final wave without very very good gear after all...)

 

(BTW, I picked up DD1 again after years of hiatus, so they may have addressed some of my complaints already in some of the new maps). Currently am working on finishing up my trophies for Ultimate defender (almost done!) so I can get my increased item box =P Just gotta do one or two maps more on NM with summoner for the real time strategist medals and then a few more vanilla campaign achievements and done.

Edited by cirion0000
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as the idea would be handy, I think it brings more bad than good. Especially due to it easily enabling the use of bots and/or AFK farming. Such levels of detachment would make it very difficult to keep players engaged in the game, since it would minimize the actual human input required to play. I would rather that drop rates or other resource grinding was adjusted to eliminate the need for afk farming, rather than the ease of afk farming being increased.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Thorgonator said:

As much as the idea would be handy, I think it brings more bad than good. Especially due to it easily enabling the use of bots and/or AFK farming. Such levels of detachment would make it very difficult to keep players engaged in the game, since it would minimize the actual human input required to play. I would rather that drop rates or other resource grinding was adjusted to eliminate the need for afk farming, rather than the ease of afk farming being increased.

Yea like I say in my last post, the best approach probably is indeed to reduce the feeling that you have to grind the same map over and over and have low drop rates. I hate that type of design. That's why I like that DD historically has lots of maps and lots of game modes and lots of difficulties. This is a far more engaging way to play than force a player to grind one map on one difficulty on one mode over and over. I much prefer the idea of being appropriately rewarded for a difficult map that you had to work your way up to being able to clear. There are still some maps and some challenges that are an abomination, but that's a discussion for another thread LOL (etherian holiday challenge anyone?) THANK YOU that clearing it on nightmare is not mandatory to get ultimate defender. I barely cleared it on hard mode and I've beaten virtually everything on nightmare including all survival maps!!! Ugh!!! That challenge tho... lol

Edited by cirion0000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I like the idea, I'm not seeing this as something likely to be implemented.  If nothing else, because it encourages solo play, since building defenses with other players isn't supported as a save option.  Plus, as heroes improve defenses, some positions might become invalid (like if an aura size increases and now intersects with the crystal).  However, here's some ideas on how I would implement it.

Make it sort of like a "record" feature.  You record yourself building the setup (initial wave only) and have the option to save it (which includes time and mana spent).  Then, when you attempt to "replay" the recording, it verifies that you have sufficient mana and time on the build timer and subtracts the necessary amount.  The time spent may require a more complicated formula, though, since Hero Casting Rate and Hero Speed stats might affect if the current hero could still manage to build that fast.  Perhaps just verifying that the values are not lower than when you created the template?

If you make each template saved to the hero, you can easily verify the character still exists and use the current stats for the tower.  Plus, if you can find a way around the timer issue you can support each player building with their own characters (i.e. I can build my Squire defenses while a friend builds Monk auras).  The best option I'm thinking for the time issue is to track how much time is subtracted for the template building and when a new player builds one it checks against that and if their setup took longer it subtracts the difference.  Example:

1. Player 1 takes 40 seconds to build Huntress traps (build timer subtracts 40 seconds : total subtraction is at 40)
2. Player 2 takes 45 seconds to build Apprentice towers (build timer subtracts 45-40=5 seconds : total subtraction is at 45)
3. Player 3 takes 30 seconds to build Monk auras (build timer doesn't subtract since 30-45<0 : total subtraction is at 45)

This setup also has the benefit of not actually requiring it to be restricted to a certain wave.  So long as each tower verifies placement before the template build it, it can be done during any build phase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With how the replay from wave feature is implemented in DD2, extending the feature to allow people to save their build for wave 1 seems completely reasonable.   As far as I can tell, it would only affect quality of life and would be a welcomed feature if the devs decided to implement it.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/20/2019 at 5:11 AM, RustyCounterweight said:

With how the replay from wave feature is implemented in DD2, extending the feature to allow people to save their build for wave 1 seems completely reasonable.   As far as I can tell, it would only affect quality of life and would be a welcomed feature if the devs decided to implement it.

Don't you think we'd end up with an army of bots farming? The game would need really little human input (except for a few boss)

Farming chaos 1 dragonfrost resort could be done by a bot if geared enough....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Ryzours said:

Don't you think we'd end up with an army of bots farming? The game would need really little human input (except for a few boss)

Farming chaos 1 dragonfrost resort could be done by a bot if geared enough....

If the devs don't do something to prevent bots, then it is going to happen regardless.   Also, how does someone making their game-play more afkable affect me and why should I care if someone else wants to play the game that way?  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...