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Halagren

DDA hopes and dreams

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So I wont highlight everything, but from DD1 to DD2 to DDE there have been a lot of good, and a lot of bad things.

 

1)  Make towers far more important than they were in DD2 (less emphasis on dps heros)

2) Allow active builders to not get one shot like they did in DD1 (DDE fixed that issue)

3)  Unique items akin to those of DD1---special weapons and pets with very unique abilities/functionality

4)  No daily quests!  Let me play when and how I want please.

5)  Cash shop cosmetics only!  I dont want them...but make some money off those that do as long as they dont effect gameplay in any way

6)  Hot swapping at least during build phase---build timers can be adjusted accordingly!  running to and from the forge is not a skill

7)  End game gear rarity akin to DD1---good freakin luck finding ult++ lol

8)  Player driven economy, at a bare minimum tavern sales like DD1.  but really cmon just put in an auction house with customizable search parameters.  I spent an absurd amount of time buying/selling/trading with other players in DD1 to get that one thing i needed....and get rid of the super rare thing i didnt need.

9)  No perma lockdown...DD1 gas traps...DDE enrage auras...DD2 proton beams.  Also this means nothing that requires perma lockdown lol, sharken come to mind here.

10)  Highest quality loot from survival mode.  Most unique loot from challenges and bosses (or possibly survival completion rewards if it wont be endless)

 

And most importantly...when in doubt just do what you did in DD1 as it was by far the best iteration of the franchise.  Hope this hits the devs ears, already backed the kickstarter and have extremely high hopes for this bringing us back to what dungeon defenders started out as and what it was meant to be!

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well hopefully there will be massacre survival mode just as there was with nightmare!

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Halagren said:

4)  No daily quests!  Let me play when and how I want please.

 

I dont see any reason for there not to be daily quests you could always choose not to do them it is just more content for other people to do.

Edited by anayalater123
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I agree with most, with the exception of daily quests. If you don't want that bonus, then don't do your dailies. Personally, I love challenges, and not only would I want the return of dailies, but weeklies and monthlies, too. If you don't want to do dailies, then you lose nothing by them still being in the game. Just don't do em.

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2 hours ago, Thorgonator said:

I agree with most, with the exception of daily quests. If you don't want that bonus, then don't do your dailies. Personally, I love challenges, and not only would I want the return of dailies, but weeklies and monthlies, too. If you don't want to do dailies, then you lose nothing by them still being in the game. Just don't do em.

appreciate the replies!  i respect that some people like dailies but i hate them because one thing you said is untrue "you lose nothing by them still being in the game".  By not doing dailies i DO lose whatever bonus those dailies provide, so you cant say i lose nothing lol.  it leads people like me to feel pidgeonholed into logging in every single day even if i didnt want to in order to "keep up" with others, and in every game ive played that had dailies it has always lead to burnout---logging in constantly cuz i felt like i HAD to until finally i just stop logging in completely and never go back. 

 

Keep the feedback coming defenders!  I may be passionate about my opinions but I still want to hear yours even if it disagrees with me!!!

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On 3/26/2019 at 1:19 PM, Halagren said:

running to and from the forge is not a skill

Can this lie please stop? Just because you don't like it does not mean it does not require skill. You are entirely ignoring the concept of time restricted pathing.

 

As for my wishlist, I'd like to see the DDE color customization setup brought back.

 

 

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i didnt ignore the concept of time restricted pathing, i specifically said and i quote "build timers can be adjusted accordingly"  you are correct that building your defenses within a time frame DOES require skill.  running back and forth does not =P 

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8 hours ago, Halagren said:

you are correct that building your defenses within a time frame DOES require skill.

Building very quickly (to beat a map as fast as possible) requires skill.

Playing against build timers doesn't really. On most maps you don't get enough starting mana to need the full timer even if you're not all that fast. And timers after the first wave are largely irrelevant, even when you needed to spend time summoning a couple dozen minions in DD1.

Some kind of heavily time restricted mode could actually be pretty cool (somewhat like the extreme building/wave timers in DD2's mastery). But I'm not sure about slapping timers on everything again. If they're going to be fairly lax like in DD1 there's basically no point and if they're going to be very strict it'll probably put a ton of people off the game, a lot of people just like to chill out when they're doing the same content for the 1000th time.

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I've played destiny 2 from release up until earlier this month where I stopped.

Destiny 2 had seasonal stuff, but most importantly weeklies and dailies which gave u powerful gear. This (for the most part) was the only way to get make your character level up.

I bring this up because after a while it became a chore to level up, I HAD to do the weeklies and dailies.

I don't mind having dailies/weeklies/monthlies in DDA, as long as it doesn't become a thing where it's the ONLY way to get the rewards.

Obviously dungeon defenders and destiny 2 have completely different loot systems, so I would be interested in what the rewards will be. As long as it doesn't become a thing where players HAVE to do it and if you don't then your left behind.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2019 at 12:22 PM, Javahawk said:

10) Survival mode? What about Massacre difficulty? :D

 

I would be greatly disapointed and it would be a huge let down and deal breaker for me personally if DDA did not have survival mode. Its what made DD1 great in my opinion!

Edited by iSkeptical
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About the build-timer, distributed mana and having to run back and forth to the forge in DD1:

This system made hero speed and hero casting speed somewhat important on tower items. You did not need a lot of it, but because of the negative stats you might end up with 0 in one of those categories - causing funny situations. The fact that mana was distributed all over the map in chests gave non-builders a purpose in the inital phase of the game -> they had to collect the mana for the builder. The running part to the forge... well, you could argue that there is a tiny bit of skill involved by chosing the best possible path. A few maps had kind of little jump&run elements involved and accidently jumping into the void surely did not help - well, sometimes it did because to simply respawn at the forge was the fastest way.

The question is, does all of this really add so much to the "difficulty" and "gameplay experience" or can we make things "easier" / more convenient? It depends how you set the build timer. Of course there is a big difference, if you make it extremely strict, so that you have to focus on a few basic defenses for the first wave, or if you make it somewhat long and therefor irrelevant. This could vary per game mode / difficulty. But the same effect could also be achieved with a restricted DU-limit for the first wave.

So what to do in DD:A? I would say it really depends, if we see a comeback of hero speed and hero casting speed. Without these stats the running and casting time aspect would be normalized for everyone and therefor would not make a difference. I personally think that people are overvaluing the difficulty aspect a bit too much and for the overall gameplay experience it would be much better to add more convenient options. The main focus and the difficult part should be the actual defending against the enemies in my opinion. So more convenient options could be switching between all of your heroes without "the forge" (maybe it would be the best to not have a forge at all and also allow inventory access and management everywhere and also during the combat phase, please!) in the build-phase (please NEVER in the combat phase) and distributing the mana either more closely or just place it in a a single big chest close to the spawn (I am against splitting the mana between every player, because this was only annoying if those players were afk for a moment or just joined during the building process).

I would even go a step further and suggest a feature that allows saving and loading a defense setup / layout. This would make farming much better, because you are building exactly the same over and over again anyway and it would also be a great way to share your defenses setups with other players.

But why not have all of this? The first time you play a certain map+configuration you have a restricted build-timer, maybe no hero switching and so on. If you manage to beat the map a certain number of times (could be 1 or whatever) or reaching a certain wave in case of (endless) survival, you are allowed to play the map without a build timer and with hero switching in the build phase. And if you beat it often enough, you unlock the "save defense layout" feature, suggested above. This would keep the difficulty aspect and make it more convienent the further you progress into the "farmable" state.

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12 hours ago, Caimen0 said:

Can this lie please stop? Just because you don't like it does not mean it does not require skill. You are entirely ignoring the concept of time restricted pathing.

 

As for my wishlist, I'd like to see the DDE color customization setup brought back.

 

 

I will say that running around maps and determining the optimal path did have an element of strategy to it.  With that said, I hope it isn't in DDA.  They can improve the experience by giving you the building mana like DD2 and allowing for swapping on the fly throughout the map without the need to go to the forge.  I don't necessarily care about Combat Phase swapping.  Even with these adjustments, they can have a build phase timer to match.  They did it in DD2 Mastery Mode and it was still brutal.

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On 3/27/2019 at 1:53 PM, Thorgonator said:

I agree with most, with the exception of daily quests. If you don't want that bonus, then don't do your dailies. Personally, I love challenges, and not only would I want the return of dailies, but weeklies and monthlies, too. If you don't want to do dailies, then you lose nothing by them still being in the game. Just don't do em.

This...i so agree. The more challenges (and trophies), the better.

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On 3/27/2019 at 10:03 AM, anayalater123 said:

I dont see any reason for there not to be daily quests you could always choose not to do them it is just more content for other people to do. 

depends how its implemented.  Defender medals were so good 1 daily could be the same as grinding like 5 maps worth of shards with how it worked.  that meant it becomes 40% less effective to play a map I enjoy then that stupid ruin map that ive grinded 9 other times this week already to earn my dailies.  I am more fine with weekly missions then daily because they don't bog you down to much on what you would WANT to be doing.  I am hoping with no in game cash currency (gems) that will mean they go back to 1 currency (gold) and maybe dailies can offer gold but not enough to make you feel forced into doing them (and even eventually you will be less forced because of diminishing returns.)

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On 3/27/2019 at 1:53 PM, Thorgonator said:

I agree with most, with the exception of daily quests. If you don't want that bonus, then don't do your dailies. Personally, I love challenges, and not only would I want the return of dailies, but weeklies and monthlies, too. If you don't want to do dailies, then you lose nothing by them still being in the game. Just don't do em.

depends on the rewards.  DD2 defender medals were the only way to get heros.  10,000 of them for 1 hero.  Doing JUST maps that's 2500 maps for a hero.  Add in an average of 300 a daily and your looking at 33 dailies.  DD2 made me a F2P account feel made me feel I had no choice but to do dailies to unlock those characters.  Hell even after I had them all I felt like I should do them because it was a big enough help on my shard grind to do a daily to get a shard pack.  I might of hated the level I was playing more but dam I still did them because the reward was to good to pass up.  If dailies are in the game keep them to a minimal reward.

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On 3/27/2019 at 5:56 PM, Halagren said:

appreciate the replies!  i respect that some people like dailies but i hate them because one thing you said is untrue "you lose nothing by them still being in the game".  By not doing dailies i DO lose whatever bonus those dailies provide, so you cant say i lose nothing lol.  it leads people like me to feel pidgeonholed into logging in every single day even if i didnt want to in order to "keep up" with others, and in every game ive played that had dailies it has always lead to burnout---logging in constantly cuz i felt like i HAD to until finally i just stop logging in completely and never go back. 

 

Keep the feedback coming defenders!  I may be passionate about my opinions but I still want to hear yours even if it disagrees with me!!!

But in the end, you don't "lose" a reward that you don't try to earn. Choosing not to collect is not the same thing as being denied that reward. It's simply you refusing to do the most efficient method of farming them since you in particular don't enjoy it. That's 100% on you. Besides, DDA being a different game model than DD2 means we most likely won't have alternate forms of currency, meaning dailies will likely likely just offer coins or crafting materials (if they are present) instead of a vital secondary currency.

 

But still, dailies are harmless, and you are quite mistaken to equate losing a reward with choosing not to earn it. Doing the dailies but then also not getting the reward, THAT is losing out on it.

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1 hour ago, vosh said:

depends on the rewards.  DD2 defender medals were the only way to get heros.  10,000 of them for 1 hero.  Doing JUST maps that's 2500 maps for a hero.  Add in an average of 300 a daily and your looking at 33 dailies.  DD2 made me a F2P account feel made me feel I had no choice but to do dailies to unlock those characters.  Hell even after I had them all I felt like I should do them because it was a big enough help on my shard grind to do a daily to get a shard pack.  I might of hated the level I was playing more but dam I still did them because the reward was to good to pass up.  If dailies are in the game keep them to a minimal reward.

Your math is off. Assuming 25 tokens per map, that is 4 maps for 100 tokens, or 400 maps for 10k. Still a crapton of maps, mind you. I do see that angle of things, but that's an issue for the pay-to-play model that is DD2, and not an issue regarding the existence of daily challenges. In DDA, characters will either be included (possibly unlocked) or part of DLC. There will be no need for dailies as the main means of unlocking them, and thus, nothing wrong with a small extra incentive for those who enjoy them.

 

That's not to say I even like the way DD2's dailies are set up. I preferred them back in the alpha when they had much more varied goals, such as killing x enemies with auras, doing incursions, etc. But I love being encouraged to go play different game modes or mix up my strategy, and don't understand why anyone would want to deny that to other players based solely on the fact that they don't like it.

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On 3/26/2019 at 5:19 PM, Halagren said:

So I wont highlight everything, but from DD1 to DD2 to DDE there have been a lot of good, and a lot of bad things.

 

1)  Make towers far more important than they were in DD2 (less emphasis on dps heros)

2) Allow active builders to not get one shot like they did in DD1 (DDE fixed that issue)

3)  Unique items akin to those of DD1---special weapons and pets with very unique abilities/functionality

4)  No daily quests!  Let me play when and how I want please.

5)  Cash shop cosmetics only!  I dont want them...but make some money off those that do as long as they dont effect gameplay in any way

6)  Hot swapping at least during build phase---build timers can be adjusted accordingly!  running to and from the forge is not a skill

7)  End game gear rarity akin to DD1---good freakin luck finding ult++ lol

8)  Player driven economy, at a bare minimum tavern sales like DD1.  but really cmon just put in an auction house with customizable search parameters.  I spent an absurd amount of time buying/selling/trading with other players in DD1 to get that one thing i needed....and get rid of the super rare thing i didnt need.

9)  No perma lockdown...DD1 gas traps...DDE enrage auras...DD2 proton beams.  Also this means nothing that requires perma lockdown lol, sharken come to mind here.

10)  Highest quality loot from survival mode.  Most unique loot from challenges and bosses (or possibly survival completion rewards if it wont be endless)

 

And most importantly...when in doubt just do what you did in DD1 as it was by far the best iteration of the franchise.  Hope this hits the devs ears, already backed the kickstarter and have extremely high hopes for this bringing us back to what dungeon defenders started out as and what it was meant to be!

1) I think DD1 was a good balance of DPS to Towers, always needed towers and was your primary source of defence. You could role a DPS out to help with the bosses etc

2) Was annoying but also was something you can build around, just get more hero health.

3) Those unique weps were great, good way to get some over some difficulty spikes too.

4) 10/10 agree, some never feel like I need to play for a mundane quest (e.g KILL 10,000 goblins). BUT daily challenges for rewards keep its fresh so Im all for that.

5) To me not even that, cosmetics awarded for achievements in the game. especially with the nature of this project coming from a Kickstarter and being leg-up to DD3

6) Route planning is, also the knock of effects of having hero speed nerfed could also only stack it on 1 builder/DPS character to move around in. l I know its a QOL change that I imagine is going to implement, But I think it adds the value of each character. Easy swapping might devalue that.

7) Yes!!!!

8) Yes and No for me of that one. Shops did bring a sense of community. I met a lot of people going through shops, asking what builds that used to do those levels etc.  Having a auction house will lose that.

9) Dont know what you mean my perma lock down, I think the towers should work like DD1. you can place them in one postion. If you want to move them you need to sell it. Also hate the sharkens, god damn DPS checkers.

10) Spread the loot around, an equal difficulty for each part of the game. But yeah most super-duper rare for survival maps 

 

Mostly agree :)

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On 3/27/2019 at 7:56 PM, Halagren said:

appreciate the replies!  i respect that some people like dailies but i hate them because one thing you said is untrue "you lose nothing by them still being in the game".  By not doing dailies i DO lose whatever bonus those dailies provide, so you cant say i lose nothing lol.  it leads people like me to feel pidgeonholed into logging in every single day even if i didnt want to in order to "keep up" with others, and in every game ive played that had dailies it has always lead to burnout---logging in constantly cuz i felt like i HAD to until finally i just stop logging in completely and never go back. 

 

Keep the feedback coming defenders!  I may be passionate about my opinions but I still want to hear yours even if it disagrees with me!!!

 

Solution: EVOLVING DAILIES! ..... for every day you don't do it, the reward compounds and the task become slightly harder (to a maximum # of days of course)!

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Personally I feel like any quest should be doable just by playing the game.  It shouldn't force me to play a specific map that may have a lower chance at dropping what I actually want.  I can understand a general daily quest though.

Examples:

  • Play 5 maps
  • Complete 3 challenge maps
  • Defeat 250 enemies with defences
  • Defeat 250 enemies with heroes
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Posted (edited)

I feel I must go back to discussing build timers. Build timers from me are jut the worst ever Id rather have NO starting mana or only enough to maybe build one barricade at each lane. Due to a mini stroke my reactions are much slower and only being able to use one hand it wont make any real difference practicing to build in time. I have been trying in DD1 and its virtually impossible for me. I know the route and what Im placing where off by heart but I still cannot do it. I cant do anything about my thinking and reacting time when placing towers. I dont mind having some challenges like mastery where there are build timers as I can avoid those, but to have them forced on me means I wont be able to solo most of the content. I realise this might sound selfish, but I reckon I cannot be the only one where its not a lack of skill that prevents them from building in time. I also feel i should mention Players playing on Switch in handheld mode Im not sure how easy this would be to build with a timer positioning towers etc. Especially if 4 player split screen!

Edited by dizzydiana
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On 3/30/2019 at 12:48 PM, xarta said:

9) Dont know what you mean my perma lock down, I think the towers should work like DD1. you can place them in one postion. If you want to move them you need to sell it. Also hate the sharkens, god damn DPS checkers.

 

 

Mostly agree :)

for most of us, sharken were NOT a dps check, with enough tower speed on your trapper and series EV buff beam, your gas traps could permanently lock them down.  they would not be capable of charging before being re-stunned from the gas.  that's what i meant =D  great perspectives though thanks for the feedback!

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:41 PM, vosh said:

snip.  If dailies are in the game keep them to a minimal reward.

I think we have to think from CG perspective. Logging in every 3 days to play for an hour for 9 maps, is not that demanding, and it keeps an active community. The game is pretty much dead if the players only come to log in once a week, and play less than an hour a week. Dailies and weekly quests are a method of game companies to keep the game active and engaging. 

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