Jump to content
XXJOHNCENAXX

Walls need an hp boost in high onslught

Recommended Posts

Walls are far too low hp to handle higher floors of onslught, and with the broken hp bug that has been going around walls are needed to deal with them, the problem is that the enemies on higher floors shred walls. Fixing the bug would be nice but it doesn't help with the fact that walls are useless once you get to floor 80+. maybe add some sort of hp ramp depending on what floor you are on.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agreed. DD2 seems to be built to not use walls at all. They die quickly, they cannot defend themselves well, enemies walk past them or can teleport behind them, and on top of that they introduced a miniboss that is designed to kill them even quicker. I noticed on day 1 of playing DD2, that the old mechanic from DD1 of placing a wall down, and then towers behind it - no longer applied, as those towers kept getting killed right off the bat. It just feels like you are not encouraged to actually use walls (sans Dryad of course). 

I would like to see a huge HP and DEF/armor boost for walls. I would also like to see some mods or shards designed to expand their usefulness. Be great if they could be part of the new elemental system and have combos they can do with towers that make them more appealing. I would also like to see their aggro made so that no enemies walk by them until they are destroyed. I would also really like to see the lesser used walls (i.e. Arcane, TD) improved to be...more useful. I would also like to see a wall mod made that specifically combats Cannon Ogres, and/or ranged units. I think it would also be a very cool idea to make a "air wall". I also wish that attacking walls had better ways to set them up so that you can get more Attack and Def, as right now it feels like you only really get one or the other good, or a hybrid that does neither well. 

Just some ideas...

Edited by Jaws_420
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed.  The biggest boost to my performance in DD2 came when I removed walls from my builds.  Early on, that's problematic because you don't have the firepower.  As you grow, walls just slow YOU down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently, the only time I need to use blockades is for the occasional headstrong lanes (I rarely reroll) or for slekeleons that's strong enough to get past WMs. Even with that I need to use Reflect as the throwers (Hex and frost bomb gobu) is just insane. Other than that, blockades isn't really that needed.

Still I would agree that blockades do need more buffs. The rare events that I need blockades, a spike blockade is enough to do the job. There isn't any reason to me to use the other blockades despite diminishing returns. If there's a shard or M.O.D.S. that have a Training Dummy, when destroyed, it explodes with a large radius, dealing MASSIVE damage, that would be interesting. Or have Arcane Barrier's buff apprentice defenses which stacks with power pylon, boost auras etc. Or have Orc Blockades deal massive knockback. Just some ideas there.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2019 at 9:58 AM, hailminion said:

You can't fully rely on blockades. you also need CC to slow down enemy attacks

Its not about relying on them, its about them being useful in the slightest. As it stands walls are trash once you start pushing into onslaught.  When starting out walls are nice to have but their health (and especially dmg) isn't suited to deal with end game at all.

On 3/19/2019 at 11:10 AM, Little Magic Hat said:

If you're needing walls, the bigger issue is your damage.

Thats exactly my point, walls are so bad that its better to not use them at all.  Walls don't have the health to even be worth building

On 3/19/2019 at 12:27 PM, hailminion said:

Mayb when petrification comes, that will be the solution. But for now, from my experience, walls give DPS the time to do their jobs. ability to hold 3 second, equals 10 times more hit, instead of having to place 3+ defense down the lane when each can only hit once or twice. (not to mentioin the upgrade value and boost value for doubling the number of defenses)

You would be better off spending that du on towers that stun rather than putting down a 50 du wall. in high onslaught even the colossus gets shredded like tissue paper. Even worse is that there are no shards or mods that make walls worth it, the best they can do is stall enemies and provide a small buff to other towers.

 

On 3/19/2019 at 12:43 PM, Paloverde zfogshooterz said:

Still I would agree that blockades do need more buffs. The rare events that I need blockades, a spike blockade is enough to do the job. There isn't any reason to me to use the other blockades despite diminishing returns. If there's a shard or M.O.D.S. that have a Training Dummy, when destroyed, it explodes with a large radius, dealing MASSIVE damage, that would be interesting. Or have Arcane Barrier's buff apprentice defenses which stacks with power pylon, boost auras etc. Or have Orc Blockades deal massive knockback. Just some ideas there.

They need to be reworked entirely. It just like you said, that the spike blockade is enough, even though its the one wall that does nothing. giving them mods or shards with unique effects wouldn't solve their uselessness, all that would do is take away a slot that could be better used. the unique effects should be a part of the base tower so that walls would finally have some utility besides stopping bosses or getting mauled by groups of enemies

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, hailminion said:

@XXJOHNCENAXXFor clarity purpose, when you say "walls are trash and don't work in high onslaught", and "might as well place 50 DU dps instead of a wall", how high are you implying?

Bcuz CG cannot balance something around extreme-end players, they need to balance around majority, and that determines a buff/nerf. 

Walls end up in the same boat as a lot of towers in onslaught,  too weak to even be worth using.  Onslaught and mastery is literally all we have in endgame, and mastery caps stats so balance isn't needed. They need a scaling system sort of like in dd1, where in nightmare walls got a health buff, onslaught needs to give walls more health depending on the floor, that way it wouldn't affect early and mid game progression

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, XXJOHNCENAXX said:

They need to be reworked entirely. It just like you said, that the spike blockade is enough, even though its the one wall that does nothing. giving them mods or shards with unique effects wouldn't solve their uselessness, all that would do is take away a slot that could be better used. the unique effects should be a part of the base tower so that walls would finally have some utility besides stopping bosses or getting mauled by groups of enemies

Good point there. To think more of it. aside from needing reworks, the problem could also be on the current gamemodes we're having. How the enemies/mutators works and also the pace of the battles that results in other defenses being way more viable than blockades. With both cases, I indeed do find currently there's hardly any differences between the blockades.

What we need is some reworks that have blockades gives some impact-full meaning and also a new gamemodes or difficulty that also has a different pace and novelty in which blockade would be useful and also encourages messing around with defenses. I think Nightmare difficulty with portals (that's removed from campaign) would be great for that. No Chaos enemies, No Incursion enemies. Just the core enemies with some scalling system and portals for challenges.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or Damage reduction, as they reduce incoming damage to them.

 

The issue with DPS towers VS Walls is that the only stat that goes up for Walls is its health. Now let's look at the stats of DPS towers that can go up,

Range, rate, crit chance, crit damage, normal damage and now with elemental combos more damage and oh yes Crowd control to allow for more damage to be done.

 

That's my Main issue with Walls. When going up into end game there progress as a wall isn't enough. You just get a tiny amount of health each time and people put there ALV into damage instead.

 

Maybe if walls had more stats to help them survive, like damage reduction or even a regeneration over time stat or a defense crit stat that acts like a crit but for defense or even a damage cap, I.E Max damage that can be done to a wall is 5% per hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Little Magic Hat said:

I can only think of two viable solutions to our wall problem: remove them or rework how they receive damage rather than having tower health.

Why would you want to remove them? they help newbies for early game lol .

you got ev2 ,monk,apprentice towers for late game so why would you do such a thing like remove the source of protection of our dear poor newcomers . they dont even understand the whole stuff about the game,like shard etc .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Zombina said:

Why would you want to remove them? they help newbies for early game lol .

you got ev2 ,monk,apprentice towers for late game so why would you do such a thing like remove the source of protection of our dear poor newcomers . they dont even understand the whole stuff about the game,like shard etc .

I'd rather prefer them reworked; but failing that, walls aren't needed even for newbies and therefore removing them wouldn't be a big deal and would open up slots for other defenses. Having 8 unusable defenses for the majority of players isn't good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely. The lack of walls being useful is one of the main reasons that builds without weapon manufacturers don't work beyond a certain point. All they need to do is slightly increase defense health scaling every certain number of Onslaught floors. The increase doesn't need to be much, and doesn't need to effect any other defense stats, but it would be nice for them to still have meaning.

 

I specifically say that it needs to scale better (ie. More tower hp per defense health) as opposed to simply increasing the defense health stat so as to stop Vampiric Empowerment from becoming stronger, as I believe that defense power should not be increasing. Just health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a use for walls in onslaught 90+ on omega waves I place a wall and reflect beam a quick and easy 70 defence unit's gets the job done for ranged boss lane's there's probably a cheaper method but it works for me so I'm happy to continue using walls.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BIGREDMONSTER said:

I have a use for walls in onslaught 90+ on omega waves I place a wall and reflect beam a quick and easy 70 defence unit's gets the job done for ranged boss lane's there's probably a cheaper method but it works for me so I'm happy to continue using walls.

I'm on same side with you. However I think their discussion ask for much more out of blockade. I still use walls at 450+ and they can handle considerate amount of hits, long enuf for my DPS to kill them when they are Headstrong + Unstoppable/Frost/Berserker. 

Beyond the point I mentioned tho, there's really no occasion I'd use a wall, and I think that's what the thread is proposing here. Walls were designed to have a big usage in the game, for 50%+ if not all lanes in builds, whereas now, they appear rarely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, hailminion said:

I'm on same side with you. However I think their discussion ask for much more out of blockade. I still use walls at 450+ and they can handle considerate amount of hits, long enuf for my DPS to kill them when they are Headstrong + Unstoppable/Frost/Berserker. 

Beyond the point I mentioned tho, there's really no occasion I'd use a wall, and I think that's what the thread is proposing here. Walls were designed to have a big usage in the game, for 50%+ if not all lanes in builds, whereas now, they appear rarely. 

Fair point, I won't deny the fact that I rarely use walls and they could do with some improvements but I was merely stating that walls have a use just not as much as you would expect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...