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kitty

Is DD:A just a stepping stone to DD3?

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The FAQ on Kickstarter reads:

Quote

We came up with Dungeon Defenders: Awakened as our first smaller-scope project as a new team. If we want to remain employee-owned/controlled (which is the dream!), we needed to prove that we’re the capable stewards and re-earn that trust before diving right into Dungeon Defenders III (which we have SO many slick plans for).

So what does this exactly mean for the individual futures of DD2, DD:A, and DD3? Is Chromatic Games going to develop all three games at the same time after DD:A is finished or merely focus on DD3 while DD:A serves as a modern nostalgic throwback, receiving a DLC update here and there? Is DD:A just a stepping stone towards the actual big project, DD3?

While it's cool to see new versions of the game, having too many versions not only takes away dev time, but it also further splits up the (already relatively small) community up even more. It's essentially a loot-based MMO game; it needs an active community to thrive and should be trade and market-driven like DD1 was. You do not see popular MMOs come out with many versions in such a short while, maybe one version a decade.

And now, as a potential backer, I'm not sure if I should be excited for DD:A or DD3. I personally want to spend thousands of hours into one single DD game (like in DD1) that will last a decade with an active, growing community. I do not want to casually play and grind DD2 a little, then DD:A, then DD3, 'enjoying a bit of each'. I know some players like that, but to me that's just turning the DD franchise into some casual co-op game series that isn't really all that special anymore. It certainly does not make me want to keep playing, as if DD:A comes out and I start investing hundreds of hours into it, I don't want to see all of my time go to waste because half the community leaves for DD3. It's fun building up your character for years and having a super long-term goals to work towards.

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No doubt it is a gap fill / revenue generator for DD3.

Realistically DD3 would mean getting external investment - look what happened with DD2...

I agree with your sentiments around the long grind and playing for years, unfortunately it seems we'll need to help them get a cash boost to make the game we all want (assuming they really have learned the lessons of DD1, DDE and DD2).

How many years will it take to plan and make DD3? A lot I imagine, since a lesson they should've learned is no more early access, no more massive progression changes etc etc. 

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I agree with how things are being spread out between all the games. We have only so many players left and having a new version of DD1 will just split us more. I think the devs need to just have a character transfer between the games. Maybe some crossing of games for example DDA players could play certain maps with DD1 players? Lastly, if DD3 comes out I would be for just a shutdown of DD2 and let people transfer their chars and loot and stuff. We need an OG DD. 

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52 minutes ago, Hover Tower 2000 said:

Characters / loot transfers are a bad idea imo. 

I don't really think there is another way to prevent spreading the fanbase without making the servers of one game smaller or whatever and moving on to new. The character transfer would just prevent people from being upset. 

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10 minutes ago, King Trabs said:

I don't really think there is another way to prevent spreading the fanbase without making the servers of one game smaller or whatever and moving on to new. The character transfer would just prevent people from being upset. 

The fan base should expand, the game is was great, people love loot, if they could offer or do play for 10 hours then buy or free weekends then  sure people will buy and play.

 

As for us, I know end game is where people like to get to, but the journey to it is often more fun. It feels like a lot of games now cater for super casual players and design reflects this, but there is a market for proper grind (note proper grind) RPG, hopefully we will get that. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, kitty said:

The FAQ on Kickstarter reads:

So what does this exactly mean for the individual futures of DD2, DD:A, and DD3? Is Chromatic Games going to develop all three games at the same time after DD:A is finished or merely focus on DD3 while DD:A serves as a modern nostalgic throwback, receiving a DLC update here and there? Is DD:A just a stepping stone towards the actual big project, DD3?

While it's cool to see new versions of the game, having too many versions not only takes away dev time, but it also further splits up the (already relatively small) community up even more. It's essentially a loot-based MMO game; it needs an active community to thrive and should be trade and market-driven like DD1 was. You do not see popular MMOs come out with many versions in such a short while, maybe one version a decade.

And now, as a potential backer, I'm not sure if I should be excited for DD:A or DD3. I personally want to spend thousands of hours into one single DD game (like in DD1) that will last a decade with an active, growing community. I do not want to casually play and grind DD2 a little, then DD:A, then DD3, 'enjoying a bit of each'. I know some players like that, but to me that's just turning the DD franchise into some casual co-op game series that isn't really all that special anymore. It certainly does not make me want to keep playing, as if DD:A comes out and I start investing hundreds of hours into it, I don't want to see all of my time go to waste because half the community leaves for DD3. It's fun building up your character for years and having a super long-term goals to work towards.

My guess is DDA will have at least a year long lifespan before they move on.  It would be poor practice for them to release DDA and immediately stop support in favor of developing DD3.  That isn't to say that development on DD3 won't start at some point.

Edited by gotrunks712

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This is a revenue generator for DD3, absolutely. DD2 will soon stop receiving updates imo, and all focus will be on DDA. DD3 will probably take another year or two to develop, and at that point they will have two titles, with the majority of the players most likely on DD3. Sounds good to me. If you're worried that DDA will be too quickly moved on from, then I guess that depends on how long you usually stick with a game. For good games that I really dig, 1-2 years is about right. Most likely that will be how long of a gap there is between DDA release and DD3 release.

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I'd like to share a few tidbits from a production standpoint re: DDA & DD3 - We are completely redesigning the underlying systems that controlled everything in DD1, and doing so in UE4. We're trying to be as smart as possible to allow us the flexibility of expanding functionality in the future, so that we don't have to start from 0 when DD3 begins pre production. The idea is that our systems in DDA should retain a solid foundation to begin working on a new product afterwards. This does not imply that DD3 will necessarily be the exact same type of game - But certainly our systems for Defenses, Hero Abilities, etc will be able to carry over in a smart way.

It is not anywhere in our plan to receive external equity funding to create any future products. Our plans are to remain in control. 

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Javahawk - you rule. Thanks for the insight. 

My main issue is that i only have so much time in a day. I will only end playing one version of this franchise - whether that be DD2, DDA, or DD3. So i would never call for the end of any game, but as each new game comes out, that is where i will be (unless one crashes and burns). When DDA goes live, i will say a small silent prayer for DD2 as i lay it to rest. When DD3 launches, there will be no other game in this world for me. The Franchise will naturally cannibalize players from it former versions. When DD3 goes live, i would be mad/sad if CG dev time was being used up on past versions as opposed to working on bugs and new content for the new game. Hard to know for sure now, as we have of course not played DDA and DD3 is just an idea right now, but i have lived through so many endless game franchises over my life, and i am certainly not still playing Super Mario 1 right now...or 2, or 3, and so on.  

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3 hours ago, Jaws_420 said:

Javahawk - you rule. Thanks for the insight. 

My main issue is that i only have so much time in a day. I will only end playing one version of this franchise - whether that be DD2, DDA, or DD3. So i would never call for the end of any game, but as each new game comes out, that is where i will be (unless one crashes and burns). When DDA goes live, i will say a small silent prayer for DD2 as i lay it to rest. When DD3 launches, there will be no other game in this world for me. The Franchise will naturally cannibalize players from it former versions. When DD3 goes live, i would be mad/sad if CG dev time was being used up on past versions as opposed to working on bugs and new content for the new game. Hard to know for sure now, as we have of course not played DDA and DD3 is just an idea right now, but i have lived through so many endless game franchises over my life, and i am certainly not still playing Super Mario 1 right now...or 2, or 3, and so on.  

I completely agree right here. I feel you are right on how the games will just slowly deteriorate into one OG DD where most people will go. I think I was wrong to say they should shut down DD2. 

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4 hours ago, Jaws_420 said:

Javahawk - you rule. Thanks for the insight. 

My main issue is that i only have so much time in a day. I will only end playing one version of this franchise - whether that be DD2, DDA, or DD3. So i would never call for the end of any game, but as each new game comes out, that is where i will be (unless one crashes and burns). When DDA goes live, i will say a small silent prayer for DD2 as i lay it to rest. When DD3 launches, there will be no other game in this world for me. The Franchise will naturally cannibalize players from it former versions. When DD3 goes live, i would be mad/sad if CG dev time was being used up on past versions as opposed to working on bugs and new content for the new game. Hard to know for sure now, as we have of course not played DDA and DD3 is just an idea right now, but i have lived through so many endless game franchises over my life, and i am certainly not still playing Super Mario 1 right now...or 2, or 3, and so on.  


What exactly is the issue? Are you saying you aren't looking forward to retiring your DDA when DD3 comes out?

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1 minute ago, Aheadatlme said:


What exactly is the issue? Are you saying you aren't looking forward to retiring your DDA when DD3 comes out?

The issue for me will be if there are 4 concurrently running DD games when DD3 arrives (1, 2, A, and 3). Most players will not have time to play all of them, and that many live games will stretch such a small dev company like CG pretty darn thin. No to mention the costs of keeping all 4 up and running, and bug free-ish will be strain and a drain. So i am curious as to how CG plans to address that issue by then. Will all 4 stay up and running? Will one or more be phased out? Certainly the amount of players in each will drastically reduce as each new iteration comes out. However, it will be the success of that new game that will determine if people stick with it (and crack out on it) or flee back to a previous version.

A good franchise pushes games forward so well that you do not want to go backwards. I am hoping DD3 makes all others seem pale by comparison, and then these choices will be easy to make. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jaws_420 said:

The issue for me will be if there are 4 concurrently running DD games when DD3 arrives (1, 2, A, and 3). Most players will not have time to play all of them, and that many live games will stretch such a small dev company like CG pretty darn thin. No to mention the costs of keeping all 4 up and running, and bug free-ish will be strain and a drain. So i am curious as to how CG plans to address that issue by then. Will all 4 stay up and running? Will one or more be phased out? Certainly the amount of players in each will drastically reduce as each new iteration comes out. However, it will be the success of that new game that will determine if people stick with it (and crack out on it) or flee back to a previous version.

A good franchise pushes games forward so well that you do not want to go backwards. I am hoping DD3 makes all others seem pale by comparison, and then these choices will be easy to make. 

Which is why I wished DD2 would get enough love to have a proper, polished and most importantly, fun conclusion. I'd hate to see DD2 recede without that. :(

After that, they can release, the occasional QoLs and content update or have a CDT team to continue it if they want that. Most importantly, the game should be completed. That's just me rambling. But I'm think (can never be sure since I don't speak for others) and would have guessed that's what a lot of us DD2 fans wanted.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Paloverde zfogshooterz said:

Which is why I wished DD2 would get enough love to have a proper, polished and most importantly, fun conclusion. I'd hate to see DD2 recede without that. :(

After that, they can release, the occasional QoLs and content update or have a CDT team to continue it if they want that. Most importantly, the game should be completed. That's just me rambling. But I'm think (can never be sure since I don't speak for others) and would have guessed that's what a lot of us DD2 fans wanted.

Realistically servers for DD2 have to go down at some point.  I hope at that time they will transition the game to offline local saves and player hosted matches that allow people to continue playing.  I know that's a large hope, but it's the reason why I've stopped playing DD2 and went back to throw some time at DD1 in Offline Open play.  Knowing that progress in DD2 might just disappear at some point with no access is a big obstacle in me wanting to jump in and play.

Edited by gotrunks712
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, gotrunks712 said:

Realistically servers for DD2 have to go down at some point.  I hope at that time they will transition the game to offline local saves and player hosted matches that allow people to continue playing.  I know that's a large hope, but it's the reason why I've stopped playing DD2 and went back to throw some time at DD1 in Offline Open play.

To think of it, I'll have agree with this big time too. I'm fine with how it is now but offline local save would really be great should that case ever happens. And I've spent cash on this game too so being able to keep the cosmetics with me would be really great too instead of disappearing forever by that time.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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