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Posted (edited)

That's one of the main reasons I don't like it.

You *have* to light the torches when they go out. Period. There is no creative solution. There is no decision that affects it. You have to be at certain spots at certain times with a certain kind of hero loadout and you have to shoot the torch. That's it. And you might lose the map because you couldn't be somewhere else doing something useful at that time. And it freezes your lanes momentarily, no matter what you do.

I love dd2 but... It's by far the most depressing game mechanic I've seen put into regular unavoidable intervals throughout AP grind and onslaught.

Edited by oxbowdvcorlone
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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, oxbowdvcorlone said:

That's one of the main reasons I don't like it.

You *have* to light the torches when they go out. Period. There is no creative solution. There is no decision that affects it. You have to be at certain spots at certain times with a certain kind of hero loadout and you have to shoot the torch. That's it. And you might lose the map because you couldn't be somewhere else doing something useful at that time. And it freezes your lanes momentarily, no matter what you do.

I love dd2 but... It's by far the most depressing game mechanic I've seen put into regular unavoidable intervals throughout AP grind and onslaught.

There are people complaining about how easy the game is .

There are people who want easy grind .

There are people who want easy maps.

Now there are people who want some difficulty on some maps because the game is way too easy .

Personally,I don't see any problem with this map,it's intended to be like that . We need a challenge . If you can't beat the map then it's simply because you didn't grinded enough .

You can't go in a fight like that without being prepared .

Go grind more stuff,prepare yourself and voila,problem solved . Do you think the players at floor 900 cry about this map? Nope,they know how to deal with it .

So this map is very good . I love it . No reason to remove anything from it . same as the temple in Onslaught . If you remove this challenge map from onslaught then you'll end up doing normal stuff and reroll for the easy modifiers until you go high . The frost map is the door that block the path for the next level,but it only await from someone with a key to openit,and that key is : Go grind more,prepare your towers,use some strategy and the job is done .

Go farm some 10/10 mods,Gild your shard,upgrade your hero . There is that video MrJuicebags made with nuke monk build,use that .

I don't see any difficulty there at all .

Edited by Zombina

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Zombina said:

There are people complaining about how easy the game is .

There are people who want easy grind .

There are people who want easy maps.

Now there are people who want some difficulty on some maps because the game is way too easy .

Personally,I don't see any problem with this map,it's intended to be like that . We need a challenge . If you can't beat the map then it's simply because you didn't grinded enough .

You can't go in a fight like that without being prepared .

Go grind more stuff,prepare yourself and voila,problem solved . Do you think the players at floor 900 cry about this map? Nope,they know how to deal with it .

So this map is very good . I love it . No reason to remove anything from it . same as the temple in Onslaught . If you remove this challenge map from onslaught then you'll end up doing normal stuff and reroll for the easy modifiers until you go high . The frost map is the door that block the path for the next level,but it only await from someone with a key to openit,and that key is : Go grind more,prepare your towers,use some strategy and the job is done .

Go farm some 10/10 mods,Gild your shard,upgrade your hero . There is that video MrJuicebags made with nuke monk build,use that .

I don't see any difficulty there at all .

Most have not said about difficulty here. I have beaten it a number of times. They have beaten it. It's definitely doable. But it's just not fun. Running around lighting brazziers which the entire gameplay would depend on that. In fact this gave me a reason to love the Lost Temple again despite getting the mega-dose during the 3 map floor days.

I mean I would rather fight an Onslaught version of Betsy than this. At least I can monitor my defenses and intercept when things goes wrong in peace.

I would agree that drakenlorded DK does have it's unique challenge which is cool but that's more of an incursion challenge and I would rather have incursions brought back to glory than have it mashed into Onslaught.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Zombina said:

There are people complaining about how easy the game is .

There are people who want easy grind .

There are people who want easy maps.

Now there are people who want some difficulty on some maps because the game is way too easy .

Personally,I don't see any problem with this map,it's intended to be like that . We need a challenge . If you can't beat the map then it's simply because you didn't grinded enough .

You can't go in a fight like that without being prepared .

Go grind more stuff,prepare yourself and voila,problem solved . Do you think the players at floor 900 cry about this map? Nope,they know how to deal with it .

So this map is very good . I love it . No reason to remove anything from it . same as the temple in Onslaught . If you remove this challenge map from onslaught then you'll end up doing normal stuff and reroll for the easy modifiers until you go high . The frost map is the door that block the path for the next level,but it only await from someone with a key to openit,and that key is : Go grind more,prepare your towers,use some strategy and the job is done .

I'm not a new player. Been playing since ps4 launch. I've suffered through several difficult phases of dd2. 3 map floors with frequent map 3 wave 5 crashing, original mastery races no mods, etc. I've done my share of grinding (like 50 or 60 defense rates). I'm not a huge complainer, I generally support dd2. 3 map floors with crashing was rough tho, ngl

Forcing the player to run around lighting torches (aside from the fact that it's an arguably uninspired game mechanic) ties the hero up for some time. This just encourages "afk" builds and lowers the theoretical maximum floor achievable because it limits how much time you can spend rescuing failing lanes on that map.

The freezing is also momentary no matter what. So this also slightly reduces theoretical maximum floor as your lanes need to hold even if frozen for a few seconds.

So fine... maybe it reduces my theoretical max achievable floor from say 600 to 350... I don't know, I totally made those numbers up.

So far so good. I build with "afk" in mind. I love building dd2 tower defense. I sometimes use like 15 different defenses on lost temple as I've tweaked each one for a specific efficiency or purpose.

However I was in the middle of ancient power reset grind. AP grind requires one to use minimal builds (very unfun for me) so as to use as little resources as possible. Current floor 80 is about old floor 270 and you didn't used to have to push anywhere near that difficulty when resetting. You used to be able to trade gear to shortcut alot of the reset grind. They changed both of these. Now the frost dragon makes the AP grind even more annoying.

My main issue is that the introduction of mandatory unavoidable frost dragon to onslaught is the 3rd time AP grind was made worse, the last thing it needed.

Some people don't hate the dragon... But out of everyone I've talked to so far, nobody would miss him.

Edited by oxbowdvcorlone
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4 minutes ago, Paloverde zfogshooterz said:

I would agree that drakenlorded DK does have it's unique challenge which is cool but that's more of an incursion challenge and I would rather have incursions brought back to glory than have it mashed into Onslaught.

I agree but this map isn't that hard though, the only difficulty come from the modifiers . The rest it's just a question of luck . I never had that much trouble with this map . The only combo i hate is dragon and assassin at the same time.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

I agree but this map isn't that hard though, the only difficulty come from the modifiers . The rest it's just a question of luck . I never had that much trouble with this map . The only combo i hate is dragon and assassin at the same time

Which is exactly also why it contributed to made it so unfun and annoying. The luck. I remember there was a point where I just quit the session because the roll was quite bad and coupled with the running. It's just frustrating. Normally, I would adjust and push on. But with DK, there was no motivation.

Then I return the next day to retake the floor. Ironically, it was decent due to good rolls but still somewhat annoyed with the running and judging and also with the fact that next time I encounter that map, it could be another frustrating experience. In short, that map has already left a bad taste in my mouth.

Again,I definitely would love some challenges but I would rather have a map that does not involve hero running everywhere in Onslaughts. I'll take actual boss fight like betsy than seeing ice blocks, heck even have a unique dungeon arena map that have some tower puzzles with a spider queen boss. Anything but drakenlord's dragon and running around the map in Onslaught.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Paloverde zfogshooterz said:

Again,I definitely would love some challenges but I would rather have a map that does not involve hero running everywhere in Onslaughts. I'll take actual boss fight like betsy than seeing ice blocks, heck even have a unique dungeon arena map that have some tower puzzles with a spider queen boss. Anything but drakenlord's dragon and running around the map in Onslaught.

As a side note, I wouldn't want the Harbinger boss fight to be in Onslaught either. That still takes your attention away from the lanes while you have to fight the boss. (At least Betsy is in wave 5.)

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Paloverde zfogshooterz said:

As a side note, I wouldn't want the Harbinger boss fight to be in Onslaught either. That still takes your attention away from the lanes while you have to fight the boss. (At least Betsy is in wave 5.)

Yeah... on a larger subject I'm not a fan of anything that just ties your hero up. I like building and watching the lanes and studying what's happening, helping struggling lanes, and maybe killing a boss or two.

I watch some people stream and it's like if they weren't personally killing half the mobs on the map with their hero they would certainly lose because their build is sloppy and not necessarily very well thought out. I respect their skill but it's not my style,.. not how I enjoy playing a tower defense game.

So I know there are 2 kinds of players and we usually disagree on stuff like the frost dragon.

Frost Dragon should not be an unavoidable repeated thing in onslaught imho.

I like building, I'd rather play lost temple. Those other players like fast build and running around being challenged by their hero control, they generally prefer frost keep with frost dragon over lost temple.

Dd2 game design should take this into account. At the very least I should be able to opt for lost temple over frost keep imho.

Like mastery was do it and you never have to again. If every 100 floors there was some challenge map I'd be ok with that. But having the frost dragon so often makes the onslaught floor climb annoying and makes AP reset grind much more annoying. Bums me out

Edited by oxbowdvcorlone
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Idk about all this because Id rather just wait for Lawlta to say something about it. What I do know is, without the dragon this map becomes like every other map and doesnt really say "Im a map that needs the be at any specific floor repeatedly" which makes it about as boring as any other random map in Onslaught. Though at this point, I doubt they change or move it, so this will probably just boil down to another thing that will come up in threads every now and then as a complaint but people will get over it. Kind of like gilding and the bag limitations or pets being useless or mod rerolls not protecting the impatient from saying no to a 10.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Exglint said:

Idk about all this because Id rather just wait for Lawlta to say something about it. What I do know is, without the dragon this map becomes like every other map and doesnt really say "Im a map that needs the be at any specific floor repeatedly" which makes it about as boring as any other random map in Onslaught. Though at this point, I doubt they change or move it, so this will probably just boil down to another thing that will come up in threads every now and then as a complaint but people will get over it. Kind of like gilding and the bag limitations or pets being useless or mod rerolls not protecting the impatient from saying no to a 10.

Yeah, I think we do need a response from Lawlta or someone at CG. And true, getting rid of the frost dragon makes frost keep like any other map.

If CG says no changes ever to frost dragon in onslaught I'll drop it and move on.

Also you're one of the good steamers ;D You, juice, sho and side (back when he streamed dd2) are great builders and I learned things watching you guys.

Edited by oxbowdvcorlone

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Please remove Drakenfrost from Onslaught AND the Drakenlord too. I like building towers and watching them do their job. This is what Dungeon Defenders is all about to me. The way I see it, if you cant beat a level with just towers alone then it shouldnt be in the game.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2019 at 4:14 AM, oxbowdvcorlone said:

Yeah... on a larger subject I'm not a fan of anything that just ties your hero up. I like building and watching the lanes and studying what's happening, helping struggling lanes, and maybe killing a boss or two.

I watch some people stream and it's like if they weren't personally killing half the mobs on the map with their hero they would certainly lose because their build is sloppy and not necessarily very well thought out. I respect their skill but it's not my style,.. not how I enjoy playing a tower defense game.

So I know there are 2 kinds of players and we usually disagree on stuff like the frost dragon.

Frost Dragon should not be an unavoidable repeated thing in onslaught imho.

I like building, I'd rather play lost temple. Those other players like fast build and running around being challenged by their hero control, they generally prefer frost keep with frost dragon over lost temple.

Dd2 game design should take this into account. At the very least I should be able to opt for lost temple over frost keep imho.

Like mastery was do it and you never have to again. If every 100 floors there was some challenge map I'd be ok with that. But having the frost dragon so often makes the onslaught floor climb annoying and makes AP reset grind much more annoying. Bums me out

Yep yep! If it's a boss fight, I certainly would like to focus on the boss rather than the lanes. Of course the lanes should have challenges, but if the lanes are so heavily diversified, I wouldn't like to be distracted from monitoring them and helping struggling lanes too.

I, too have seen that kind of gameplay where without the hero going full on, the map would be doomed. Not my kind playstyle either especially in Onslaught. Totally welcome that in incursion, but with the mechanics of Onslaught, definitely not a big fan of it.

On 3/23/2019 at 8:25 AM, oxbowdvcorlone said:

Yeah, I think we do need a response from Lawlta or someone at CG. And true, getting rid of the frost dragon makes frost keep like any other map.

To be honest, I would really love to fight on that regular version of that map. I definitely won't miss the drakenlorded version in Onslaught. It has tagged an unpleasant meaning in my head.

But yeah, I guess we'll see the response of CG.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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This would be fine with me:

"Instead of freezing zones, the dragon could freeze the torches and any left unlit at the end of each wave increases Drakenlord's hp by 10% for the 6th wave smirk"

Exglint's idea.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, oxbowdvcorlone said:

This would be fine with me:

"Instead of freezing zones, the dragon could freeze the torches and any left unlit at the end of each wave increases Drakenlord's hp by 10% for the 6th wave smirk"

Exglint's idea.

That idea is actually pretty interesting there. Would make this go into the category of an near-actual boss fight since he'll be stronger at the end of each wave.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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