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Aheadatlme

What do you think about negative stats?

Should gear drop with negative stats?  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Should gear drop with negative stats?

    • Yes
      35
    • No
      14


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Posted (edited)

Simple poll to see what the community thinks. In the earlier stages of my DD1 gameplay, I thought it was ok. Sort of made me excited when I got a piece of gear with the right positives for my hero, sort of annoyed me at other times. As I progressed throughout the campaign, I grew to dislike the feature. Just didn't feel 'good', even when it worked in my favor. It provided a bit of strategic depth that wouldn't have been there otherwise, which I can respect, but I felt like more often than not it was a headache rather than an exciting or engaging challenge. And to clarify what I mean, note the Hero Health;

Not like this;

***Current Helmet***           ***New Helmet***
40 Hero Health                     20 Hero Health (-20)
40 Tower Health                  50 Tower Health (+10)


I mean like this;

***Current Helmet***             ***New Helmet***
40 Hero Health                      -20 Hero Health (-60)
40 Tower Health                    50 Tower Health (+10)

Edited by Aheadatlme

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I absolutely hate it! I am so glad you brung this up as the one thing i'd get devastated about is defeating a hard boss and getting a weapon with low upgrades and especially negative stats!!!!! I hope they remove this feature in DD:A as it is just so upsetting after all your hard work getting a weapon like that :(

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I honestly can't really understand what you are trying to say exactly. However, I think this was some sort of a decent feature. By having negative stats on a piece that would've been an improvement for your character makes you think if you should use it or not. For example you we're a tower squire and got armor with like 100 more tower damage, but you also had -80 tower rate. Then you had to check yourself if it was worth it or not.

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I guess for me it depends greatly. Which stats and by what amounts? If i have a dedicated builder, than anything even remotely related to building should not have negative stats. Make all the DPS stuff as negative as you want. Same goes with the vice versa DPS versus builder - make all the builder stats as negative as you want.  

However, if i have a builder, and the gear pushes one builder stat up, but another down - what is the point of that item? More power does me no good if my speed goes down to almost zero. I just want to be able to make really badass little heroes who are dedicated to one function - build or DPS. Anything that makes that harder is something i will not enjoy. 

As long as the negative stats have some plan that makes sense as to why they exist - i would be all for that. Like a weapon designed to attack in a certain pattern, so it has a slow firing speed, or causes the hero to move slowly with it. I get that. Negative stats that are part of a strategy are interesting to me. However, if it is just meant as a way for RNG to screw you over, or a way to mess with players - then it needs to go. 

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I would think it best to not having that specific stat(s) at all, in that specific 'slot' of the armor, instead of having a positive stat. But, then again, it would be interesting to have to think again about equipping a piece of armor if it had a bad stat.

Or, have the potential for negative stats on common or uncommon gear while rare and legendary gear is lucky enough to not have anything negative on it at all.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, NotMau said:

I honestly can't really understand what you are trying to say exactly. 



In DD1, some stats would roll as negatives on pieces of gear. I don't mean negative as in '20 less' hero health than your current gear. I mean negative as in '20 less than 0'. I'll clarify;

Not like this;

***Current Helmet***           ***New Helmet***
40 Hero Health                     20 Hero Health (-20)
40 Tower Health                  50 Tower Health (+10)


I mean like this;

***Current Helmet***             ***New Helmet***
40 Hero Health                      -20 Hero Health (-60)
40 Tower Health                    50 Tower Health (+10)

 

Edited by Aheadatlme

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As jaws mentioned unless its something that would make sense but if it is just a unlcuky roll for rng to not favour us then no. I think negative stats can work buut thers got to be a equal balance for it. 

 

For example of good negative.

Iron Helmet

Hero damage +30

Hero speed +10

 

Heavy Iron Helmet

Hero Damage +40

Hero speed -10

 

So as you can see from the above example since the heavy Iron helm has +40 points for damage, which above the average damage amount you woud get at that level its drawback is hero speed -10

 

A bad example would be this.

 

Cursed Iron Helmet

Hero damage +30

Hero speed -15

This way,  the cursed Iron helm is worse in all ways and makes you think whats the point of it dropping? To keep farming? 

 

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Posted (edited)

tldr; the removal of negative and bad stats for being a "ultimate" item is poopy and we should keep it the way it is

i honestly think some gear should still roll with negative stats. i dont know why it shouldn't. itd make the grind for gear take a lot less time than it should. it wouldn't even really be a grind then. heres some gear that ive farmed in dd1 and its kinda obvious what kind of character these are supposed to go onto. the negative\poor stats really dont matter here but i know that sometimes, really good pieces can be really bad, like having a really good tower++ armor and having negative range. you can say its bad that a ++ rolls with a negative stat but if literally ever item had a positive, you can have super high stats on everything with little to no effort. Ive only ever seen 5 other people with an ember scepter that has more than 70k damage and even though it has -152 ab2 and 71 damage, it still beats literally everyone elses scepter because of how the way stat scaling works. and for the kraken kannon, it has garbage hp and damage for being a ++ but its definitely not unusable. its just not the "best" it still beats like 99% of other peoples kraken kannons but im not complaining

image.thumb.png.fbeba90ec3029f59d643425ef47d2356.pngimage.thumb.png.c73cf93f0e12deb142c18decc2c4ed07.png

 

Edited by Bonnabelle
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negative stats should definitely stay, it would make farming way too trivial and completely defeat the purpose of the game after just a couple of weeks. if you know what you are doing in either dd1 or 2 the game already isn't that hard, so i don't think it should become a walk in the park by removing a huge layer of rng.

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Life shouldn't be easier, negative stats definitely must have a place in DD:A. Because they force you to grind, to collect more and more items, to compare and choose them wisely. My worry is about so called "calculator". It was funny to run to the "green" item and realize that it's a "godly" 15 damage sword :/

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i like the negative stats. it lets me maximize a stat that would be a lot less if i didn’t lower another stat that i don’t use/care about as much.

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There are other ways to keep people playing the game.  Negative stats don't have to be one of them. I'm alright for negative stats to be in the game but it's got to be fair and make sense. 

 

For the people saying, it keeps you grinding. We can have that without negative effects. All negative effects do is just make the gap wider between gear. Simply just having a piece of gear a few points away from the highest is enough to keep people grinding. 

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Posted (edited)

Look at bonny's photo. Imagine if every stat on that item was a positive. This is why negative stats should stay, this isn't a prime example but often really good pieces drop for one or the other, it helps the loot feel "special" because you know what you're looking for on specific heroes, if it dropped good for a builder, and a dps it'd be harder to decide where it goes

Edited by Sophisticus
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1 hour ago, super_slayan said:

i like the negative stats. it lets me maximize a stat that would be a lot less if i didn’t lower another stat that i don’t use/care about as much.

See that I don't mind if it's negative but then it's offset but a really higher the norm stat I can get behind that.  

 

37 minutes ago, Sophisticus said:

Look at bonny's photo. Imagine if every stat on that item was a positive. This is why negative stats should stay, this isn't a prime example but often really good pieces drop for one or the other, it helps the loot feel "special" because you know what you're looking for on specific heroes, if it dropped good for a builder, and a dps it'd be harder to decide where it goes

I don't see the issue with them being all positives Unless you can get all stats on gear, which in DD1 I don't think you can,  if it's mix and I want a Hero build, and it's got tower stats on it, I'll stick it either on my hybrid or just sell it. 

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I think that negativ stats should stay, i mean this kind off gear should be for a special tactic and then you must sacrifice some stats

 

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17 hours ago, Bonnabelle said:

tldr; the removal of negative and bad stats for being a "ultimate" item is poopy and we should keep it the way it is

i honestly think some gear should still roll with negative stats. i dont know why it shouldn't. itd make the grind for gear take a lot less time than it should. it wouldn't even really be a grind then. heres some gear that ive farmed in dd1 and its kinda obvious what kind of character these are supposed to go onto. the negative\poor stats really dont matter here but i know that sometimes, really good pieces can be really bad, like having a really good tower++ armor and having negative range. you can say its bad that a ++ rolls with a negative stat but if literally ever item had a positive, you can have super high stats on everything with little to no effort. Ive only ever seen 5 other people with an ember scepter that has more than 70k damage and even though it has -152 ab2 and 71 damage, it still beats literally everyone elses scepter because of how the way stat scaling works. and for the kraken kannon, it has garbage hp and damage for being a ++ but its definitely not unusable. its just not the "best" it still beats like 99% of other peoples kraken kannons but im not complaining

image.thumb.png.fbeba90ec3029f59d643425ef47d2356.pngimage.thumb.png.c73cf93f0e12deb142c18decc2c4ed07.png

 

Totally agree, keep negative stats 

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2 hours ago, Sophisticus said:

Look at bonny's photo. Imagine if every stat on that item was a positive. This is why negative stats should stay, this isn't a prime example but often really good pieces drop for one or the other, it helps the loot feel "special" because you know what you're looking for on specific heroes, if it dropped good for a builder, and a dps it'd be harder to decide where it goes


I can vibe with this, and it's sort of how I felt with DD1. It's just that it reallllyyyyy sucked when you'd get that one stat that ruined an otherwise perfect piece of gear. It also made sorting gear/equipping stuff for the next battle take longer than it needed to.

I wouldn't say to make all stats positive and keep the same number of stats on gear. If a class of gear dropped with ~6 stats, and 1-2 were usually negative, then the update would be 4 stats instead. I can understand the points of view here that this takes away a bit of that RNG fun, but that was the idea anyway.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not really a fan of negative stats and I don't see it would take anything significant out of the game by removing them. You're still completely at the mercy of RNG as to what positive stats you get, and you'd still have to make tradeoffs in deciding how to specialise.

EDIT: To clarify, I agree with Aheadatime that if negatives are removed, there should be a limit to the number of stats that can roll so that you don't end up getting positives to everything.

Edited by Pixelmancer
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This is just a rough guideline with lots of exceptions, but . . .

In general DD1 is designed so that the higher the stats, the more likely something will roll negative.  The end game accs like Winter Wonderland, Temple of Love, and so on roll negative more than 50% of the time.   The best accessories (masquerade, etc.) roll negative 60% of the time.  Accessories on non-hardcore or on easier maps usually roll 6 or 7 positives.   Accessories are an extreme example, but a lot of other items roll a significant number of negatives, too.

End game players hate this, but I don't think the idea is wrong.  Lower end gear is easier to get, higher end gear is harder to get.  If you give people the best items without much grind, then there's nothing to grind for, and people will get bored and quit.  If you get rid of negatives, the game would be completely different.

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11 hours ago, Plane said:

This is just a rough guideline with lots of exceptions, but . . .

In general DD1 is designed so that the higher the stats, the more likely something will roll negative.  The end game accs like Winter Wonderland, Temple of Love, and so on roll negative more than 50% of the time.   The best accessories (masquerade, etc.) roll negative 60% of the time.  Accessories on non-hardcore or on easier maps usually roll 6 or 7 positives.   Accessories are an extreme example, but a lot of other items roll a significant number of negatives, too.

End game players hate this, but I don't think the idea is wrong.  Lower end gear is easier to get, higher end gear is harder to get.  If you give people the best items without much grind, then there's nothing to grind for, and people will get bored and quit.  If you get rid of negatives, the game would be completely different.

wow...this just makes me sad. I really hope that CG does not continue this. It will really sour DDA for me if it does. As i have said before, I would much rather the drop rate be lower and be a good drop - then get a drop with negatives. Getting an ultimate piece of gear should be a celebration and full of cheer. Sounds like half the time it is a complete letdown. The best loot collecting games IMO always find a way to keep you interested and happy. Negative stats do the complete opposite for me. All it sounds like it does it extends the grind...which after the DD2 grindfest many of us are coming out of, that is not a good thing. Now if we had the DD2 reroll...we could fix this issue, but that all sounds like a bunch of busy work to me. 

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I like negativ Stats when Gear is Seperatet for Builders + and for  DPS - and Tower DMG Rise more up as on a other Itrem with all Stats Positiv.

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8 hours ago, Jaws_420 said:

wow...this just makes me sad. I really hope that CG does not continue this. It will really sour DDA for me if it does. As i have said before, I would much rather the drop rate be lower and be a good drop - then get a drop with negatives. Getting an ultimate piece of gear should be a celebration and full of cheer. Sounds like half the time it is a complete letdown. The best loot collecting games IMO always find a way to keep you interested and happy. Negative stats do the complete opposite for me. All it sounds like it does it extends the grind...which after the DD2 grindfest many of us are coming out of, that is not a good thing. Now if we had the DD2 reroll...we could fix this issue, but that all sounds like a bunch of busy work to me. 

Just commented on another post discussing the item rarity tiers / potentially being screwed over by RNG on a really rare drop, but I'm hoping no one will mind me copying + pasting the comment here, because I think it is relevant to this discussion as well.

;tldr version: @Jaws_420 - don't get too distraught over really high-end gear rolling with negative stats. The bottom line is...

  • You didn't need the highest rarity items in order to complete almost all of the game's content in DD1.
  • You could complete 90-95% of maps with Trans gear, which was very farmable in survival, some Challenges, etc.
  • As far as I'm aware, the really high-end stuff was meant to be a carrot-on-a-stick for players who had already 100%-ed DD1 content, and were just looking to expand their stats to the maximum
  • In Summary: If you get an Ult+ / Ult++ piece with negative stats, it didn't mean that you'd be stuck farming the same content until you got another Ult+ / Ult++ piece with usable stats, because to even be in that position, you probably have Trans gear sets or better, which you can already run practically all maps with (and I'm coming full circle...).
  • To Summarize Further: Negative stat rolls on high-end gear wasn't preventing anyone from progressing through DD1's content, because it wasn't needed in order to complete said content. The stuff you needed to progress on end-game was much much easier to farm (thinking of Trans gear).
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Posted (edited)

I really like the negative stats - well or let's say their existence.

In DD1 they added a lot of diversity to the loot and it caused funny situations, where your main builder sometimes ended up with 0 movement or cast speed or was super squishy. As far as I know the negative stats also allow for a more divers range of stats, because an item is generated with a total amount of points and if some stats are negative, other stats could be higher and therefor might make that item interesting in the end.

Edited by The Ich
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There's an easy way to solve this:  just make all stats 0. It evens out, easy peasy. :)

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