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russman

DDE - Why was it bad?

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I'm being serious.  I love DD1 (no shocker there).  I do remember DDE coming out and being really excited.  I think I sort of enjoyed some of the new stuff like coloring your items with paint or whatever it was.  I remember there being some complaints about the networking code.  But why exactly was DDE so hated?  I honestly can't remember.  I do remember liking the few maps that I tried.  I obliviously loved the look of the game since it looked just like DD1 (if memory serves me right).

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Posted (edited)

It had that stupid player verse overlay, that didn't work well.

It suffered from awful desynch / lag.

They didnt plan stat progression so tower speed led to network problems.

Didn't pets have a stupid mechanic to them? Almost on par with 8 hour incubation periods.

We ALL rushed for end game as we'd done it all before (hmm now i wonder how DDA will deal with this), this as with most other games we wondered what to do - reaching max level on heroes was to easy and the best gear was to easy to get (wasn't it?).

 

The survival was an interesting idea tho - in our now time sapped lives it is quite a draw.

 

***EDIT - they did have those ?amulets that let you do a special power, i seem to recall liking those***

**** The dodge, omg the dodge - I loved that, please can we have that back :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))****

Edited by Hover Tower 2000
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They kept giving too powerful gear and removing it.

Too much useless junk on the floor after a few waves. It took ages to sort it out

The game died for me when they added OP builder armor set to the game, making all other armors useless.

Bad balance, many design flaws. My last game was the newly implemented king's game map, which took 30 minutes because there where way too many enemies, and I got afk kicked. While playing solo in my own hosted game.

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Posted (edited)

They introduced two new armor types, "Corrupt" and "Divine". Corrupt almost always spawned with positive hero attack stats and resistances while Divinge almost always spawned with tower stats. This woulndn't have been a problem if they were rare armor types, but they put in a number wrong somewhere and there was more Corrupt/Divine spawning than any other type. This led to the rest of the armor types being pointless.

They removed accessories and in thier place, we had 7 armor slots. These 3 extra armor pieces also got set bonus. Due to this, it is possible to get 10k stats on max level (60, NOT 100) and makes endgame DDE even more of a joke than thinking that King's Game is a hard endgame map.

All map specific weapon rewards were removed. Sure, you can run Akatiti Jungle, but there are no Obsidians waiting for you at the end. There are no Propeller Cats at wave 25 of Sky City. You need to look at ground loot, find the best one, (which would likely be in a blueprint, so you would then have to craft it) or if it is a pet, find an egg, then incubate it (Last I recall it took like 4 map runs or several hours) and pray you get your propeller cat.

Since there were no map specific rewards, you just farmed the map with the best quality multiplier, so when Phoenix came out, people would build Embermount Volcano in such a way that would not kill Phoenix and see how long they could farm the endless boss phase. Wat got a run of over 24 hours IIRC.

Survivals no longer had waves, it was simply a 1 hour long combat phase. I do not remember if swapping was allowed. This might have been fine if Mages hadn't been changed to heal ALL towers. The easiest way to complete a survival is to phys wall off a crystal inside and aura stack. Sitting slightly behind the wall would be a mage and a spider.The mage healed both the walls and the auras, and the spider made sure the ogres took double damage from the aura ticks. You could afk the map once you did the required upgrading.

Things I liked about the game:

If you popped an EXP booster, you could go from 0-56 or roughly 0% to 96% of the level cap in one map. That's a lot less painful than 5 hours of running Tavern Defense or Tinkerer's Lab if you want to level a new character.

I liked the amulet system a lot. They were an equippable item that gave no stats, but worked as a secondary ability, whose effect strength was determined by the spawn number. (The higher the better) They had effects like calling a localized lightning storm and Initiate's Enemy Drain from DD1.

Like Hover Tower said, I liked the movement dash thing that was added, but if it could be more fluid like the Charge Blade's Sliding Slash from Monster Hunter, that would be cool

 

Edited by Caimen0
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Wow, thanks for all the info.  I honestly can't remember why I quit DDE.  I think it was just that I still had a lot of stuff to do in DD1 and everyone bailed on DDE because of its issues.  I might have to go back and install DDE to refresh my memory about what I liked and didn't like.

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2 minutes ago, russman said:

Wow, thanks for all the info.  I honestly can't remember why I quit DDE.  I think it was just that I still had a lot of stuff to do in DD1 and everyone bailed on DDE because of its issues.  I might have to go back and install DDE to refresh my memory about what I liked and didn't like.

It did end up with a couple really good changes (as noted above,) stuff that could do well to come back. But it was just a big mess of a project overall. Part of that being how the game was initially an appeasement project for Stieglitz (a lot of drama and backstory I won't go into here.) That and a test run for Playverse servers; a back-end that never really needed to exist; long story there as well. Rather than DDE being a project that truly needed to be made. In the end, as people said all along, they should have just updated DD1. And they eventually did again, thanks to the tireless efforts of the CDT on top of it.

That being said: I need to go back to DDE and finish up the achievements. While the game and servers are still here. Having a DD game be incomplete-able for me would kill me. Particularly with the mention of Playverse eventually going bye-bye, I need to stop waiting to do this. So if you want to play it sometime let me know.

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My biggest problem with DDE was that Trendy overpromised, underdelivered, and then felt that 500 gems in DD2 and a "We're sorry" would fix it. Definitely hoping it doesn't happen with DDA again. 

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1 hour ago, gotrunks712 said:

My biggest problem with DDE was that Trendy overpromised, underdelivered, and then felt that 500 gems in DD2 and a "We're sorry" would fix it. Definitely hoping it doesn't happen with DDA again. 

The good news is: this is a different company from the Trendy of five years ago. Decisions aren't being forced by corporate shareholders, by publishers, or by certain members of past management that shall remain unnamed. They mean it when they say the company is actually "indie" again, and that fills me with lots of hope. Plus they have five more years of learning what works and what doesn't. Even the past few years of DD2 development has shown the bright direction the team was heading in. They managed to be very player-centric in recent years despite the higher-ups telling them they still need to push monetization above all...

Now without the constraints on, they can finish that goal they started with late-era DD2. With a fresh new engine and database, etc, etc. I'm impressed and amazed they managed to turn around both DD1 and DD2 so well considering the Frankenstein of code and systems they both use. It's no exaggeration when Mark and the devs say how much faster they can push out content with UE4 and a fresh start. Things that took months to implement will often now just take weeks.

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As mentioned above Corrupt and Divine armour sets destroyed it.

It wasn't all bad, some of the new maps were a lot of fun, the DD1 community team incorporated one of them I think.

Dash\dodge good idea

Time limit on survival, helpe casual gamers

Boosters worked well

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It sounds like DDE suffered from some of the same issues that DD2 did, as to the power creep. With all those Ascension Points and resetting - we never got anything in DD2 to use all of that power for, except the giant hamster wheel that is Onslaught. I would really like to see CG address this in the DD franchise. A proper end-game mode that lives up to all of the grinding and power gain. Proper motivation for the grind is needed. 

The dash button sounds cool. I hope that carries over. 

I am hoping that boosters do not carry over though. Sounds like one more thing to have to collect, hold bag space for, and manage during game play. I actually really dislike when game have limited consumables you have to constantly manage. THANK GOD they made ammo infinite on the projectile heroes in the whole franchise. I would like to not have to worry about using boosters during the action part of the gameplay. To me it is either a cheap out, or a sign that the gameplay is not properly balanced. 

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I never bothered with DDE.. since from what i heard about it back when it was being released it was just DD1 with less maps.. so yeah why would i move from a game where i had 2k hours to something that was less of a product ;).. seems i might have missed out on some goodies.. but it doesnt really matter

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20 hours ago, LJMjollnir said:

I never bothered with DDE.. since from what i heard about it back when it was being released it was just DD1 with less maps.. so yeah why would i move from a game where i had 2k hours to something that was less of a product ;).. seems i might have missed out on some goodies.. but it doesnt really matter

You didn't miss out on anything.  Whatever was promised for any other DD game from DDE was scrapped in the end.  They gave out the same rewards to anyone who owned either DD1 or DDE (500 gems). The only other thing that was given out to DDE owners was another bundle of the DD1 complete collection.

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Posted (edited)

A game like Dungeon Defenders stays and falls with the loot system and it was just too easy to get decent loot in DDE, which speeded up the progress and you ended up with super high stats without much grind, making the whole content trivial.

DDE was so promising, because all they had to do was to literally copy DD1 and add the QoL features. And there were quite a few nice little things. For example being able to move while repairing or casting a building. There was also something that made upgrading items easier I think.

And in general a server-sided loot system to prevent any kind of manipulation was a major improvement over DD1. Of course the server should have kept up with this, because DDE was lagging a lot and not seldom you got kicked out of your own game. And there was this stupid 30 min. idle timer.

EDIT: Oh and I just remembered the most broken thing. You could not only accquire high(er) stats without much effort, but some tower buildings - especially the traps and auras - scaled differently compared to DD1 and with differently I mean much stronger. One aura-stack (one of every kind) was so powerful (and big), that you could beat a whole lane or even multiple overlapping lanes with it, because the enrage aura made the enemies fight each other, so they would just group up at their spawn point without ever leaving it).

Edited by The Ich
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