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russman

Facebook likes heavily favor DD1

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There are quite a few DD2 fans running around these forums.  Which makes sense I guess since the DD2 forums are more active than the DD1 forums.  But it's interesting to me that if you go look at the comments on the Facebook posts by CG about DD:A, the most liked comments by far are ones basically saying: "I loved DD1, couldn't stand DD2, make DD:A like DD1". 

I haven't looked at Twitter yet so I don't know what those posts look like.

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And what about the other very large portion of players who don't use FB, Twitter, Reddit, forums, social media at all?

I'm not saying DD1 was a bad game or that I didn't like it but your post means basically nothing when looked at from a realistic point of view :P

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As the young sire above me stated. 

 

DD1 Been around longer and considering the start of DD2 it pushed alot of players to stay on DD1. I dont have a prefrence over any of them but Im agreeing with what CG is doing. Basing it on DD1 but not making it 100% DD1. If you see were im coming from.

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Even tho there might be peoples enjoying the 2, most of em ( i think + me included) still want DDA to looks like the 1. This looks like this because everyone, both 1 and 2 players really like the first and thats kinda obvious for DD2 players that DDA should look/play like the 1, dunno if you get the idea. The ones you hearing the most are DD2 players but even tho they play it, they still want DDA to looks like DD1, and DD1 players who couldnt play the 2 because its so bad, different/whatever, they legit say "Hey, make DDA like the 1" I think

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I think you are closer to the actual point Bidru. I like both games, they are both great for certain things but both had drawbacks. There are certain things about DD1 that I feel DD2 corrected and made it better overall (setting bugs aside). I do think going back to roots and starting it the way CG is telling the story so far is a good move, but I do not think we should just throw out everything DD2 since it did make huge improvements on the series and what we should be doing is finding ways to bring all the good together and try to get rid of as much of the pain points as possible so that when we do move onto DD3 we have a clear idea of what a perfect DD game is.

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32 minutes ago, Exglint said:

And what about the other very large portion of players who don't use FB, Twitter, Reddit, forums, social media at all?

I'm not saying DD1 was a bad game or that I didn't like it but your post means basically nothing when looked at from a realistic point of view :P

True, I think the DDA announcement really just sparked something in the people who put a lot of hours in DD1 and didn't play DD2 much.

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Strictly from the forums, I get the feeling that most people like DD1 better than DD2. 

But I wonder how much the newness of the Dungeon Defenders WORLD colors their memory of DD1 GAMEPLAY.  I know we cannot test this. But if DD1 and DD2 had both come out at the same time, which one would people prefer? 

A lot of people’s favorite job was their very first job.  Myself included.  But it’s not because McDonalds and Walmart are the best places to work. It’s because it was our first time making money in a work environment.  

I think it’s the same with DD1.  The overall experience included newness to the world. For many, it was also newness to tower defense.  Those things cannot be repackaged and relived. 

I love much of the progress that DD2 brought. I hope Chromatic Games recognizes the goodness there and uses it. 

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1 hour ago, russman said:

There are quite a few DD2 fans running around these forums.  Which makes sense I guess since the DD2 forums are more active than the DD1 forums.  But it's interesting to me that if you go look at the comments on the Facebook posts by CG about DD:A, the most liked comments by far are ones basically saying: "I loved DD1, couldn't stand DD2, make DD:A like DD1". 

I haven't looked at Twitter yet so I don't know what those posts look like.

Not sure how long you're going to continue the DD2 vs DD1 debate, but it really isn't necessary.  It's a matter of preference and you've already admitted you're purposefully trolling people who have an opinion differing from yours.  Lets leave the discussions about feedback directly that the devs can use, not how many likes are on a twitter post or facebook page.

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6 minutes ago, gotrunks712 said:

Not sure how long you're going to continue the DD2 vs DD1 debate

Until about October I think.

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40 minutes ago, SELL SW0RD said:

Strictly from the forums, I get the feeling that most people like DD1 better than DD2. 

But I wonder how much the newness of the Dungeon Defenders WORLD colors their memory of DD1 GAMEPLAY.  I know we cannot test this. But if DD1 and DD2 had both come out at the same time, which one would people prefer? 

A lot of people’s favorite job was their very first job.  Myself included.  But it’s not because McDonalds and Walmart are the best places to work. It’s because it was our first time making money in a work environment.  

I think it’s the same with DD1.  The overall experience included newness to the world. For many, it was also newness to tower defense.  Those things cannot be repackaged and relived. 

I love much of the progress that DD2 brought. I hope Chromatic Games recognizes the goodness there and uses it. 

I agree strongly with this dude, you legit took the words out of my mouth.

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1 hour ago, SELL SW0RD said:

I love much of the progress that DD2 brought. I hope Chromatic Games recognizes the goodness there and uses it. 

We'd be dummies if we didn't! Both games have flaws, and both have very great things in them. We're wanting to continue to evolve the series by combining the great things to make a great game.

Just overall, for this thread and any others like it, if people like DD1 or DD2 better, that's perfectly fine, but it'd be a HUGE waste of time to try and argue which one is better, because it comes to a matter of preference and taste. Don't try to poke and troll one another, because we're not making a game just for one group of our players, we're trying to make a game for all of our glorious Defenders. Also Defenders aren't trolls, because trolls are in league with the Old Ones army. If you're a troll, you get a bouncing blockade tossed at you, knocking you into a geyser trap, and you take off like team rocket blasting off again. Be good to each other.

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Bouncing blockades confirmed, maybe we're going to land in a push-mobs-off-the-cliff meta in DDA...

 

take my money.jpg

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2 hours ago, LAWLTA said:

We'd be dummies if we didn't! Both games have flaws, and both have very great things in them. We're wanting to continue to evolve the series by combining the great things to make a great game.

Just overall, for this thread and any others like it, if people like DD1 or DD2 better, that's perfectly fine, but it'd be a HUGE waste of time to try and argue which one is better, because it comes to a matter of preference and taste. Don't try to poke and troll one another, because we're not making a game just for one group of our players, we're trying to make a game for all of our glorious Defenders. Also Defenders aren't trolls, because trolls are in league with the Old Ones army. If you're a troll, you get a bouncing blockade tossed at you, knocking you into a geyser trap, and you take off like team rocket blasting off again. Be good to each other.

All I got from that post was no SGT confirmed after being blasted off into the air.

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31 minutes ago, super_slayan said:

DD1 had 0 flaws except not having the Dyrad in it

DD2 mega chicken when

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6 hours ago, LAWLTA said:

We'd be dummies if we didn't! Both games have flaws, and both have very great things in them. We're wanting to continue to evolve the series by combining the great things to make a great game.

Just overall, for this thread and any others like it, if people like DD1 or DD2 better, that's perfectly fine, but it'd be a HUGE waste of time to try and argue which one is better, because it comes to a matter of preference and taste. Don't try to poke and troll one another, because we're not making a game just for one group of our players, we're trying to make a game for all of our glorious Defenders. Also Defenders aren't trolls, because trolls are in league with the Old Ones army. If you're a troll, you get a bouncing blockade tossed at you, knocking you into a geyser trap, and you take off like team rocket blasting off again. Be good to each other.

Thx. It's good to see a dev trying to stop this. 

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4 hours ago, super_slayan said:

DD1 had 0 flaws except not having the Dyrad in it

Hacked gear, community created mods, negative stats, shared stats on defenses, clunky upgrading, no explanation on why certain stats stopped being to upgrade, time wasting running for forge, boring afk fests, 90% of gear dropped was worthless, no clear go to for next gear set, rubberbands on controllers were better than multiplayer, People could literally steal your gear on map or in tavern if you didnt have gear locks in tavern, baaaah baaaah baaaah baaaah baaaah baaah baaah baaah (bosses coming), no interesting counter play (place dmg and you win). 

Need I go on?

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Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2019 at 3:45 AM, Exglint said:

(With regards to DD1 flaws) Hacked gear, community created mods, negative stats, shared stats on defenses, clunky upgrading, no explanation on why certain stats stopped being to upgrade, time wasting running for forge, boring afk fests, 90% of gear dropped was worthless, no clear go to for next gear set, rubberbands on controllers were better than multiplayer, People could literally steal your gear on map or in tavern if you didnt have gear locks in tavern, baaaah baaaah baaaah baaaah baaaah baaah baaah baaah (bosses coming), no interesting counter play (place dmg and you win). Need I go on?

Very well stated. And don't get me wrong: DD1 is one of my couple most-played games of all time. Out of three or four decades of gaming. I've played it vastly more than I've played DD2 (even despite having been around for every pre-release and testing version of DD2.) However with that said: the new generation team at Trendy has finally brought DD2 to a wonderful place. With so many quality of life fixes that make the game an utter joy to play. At least SOME of those sorts of changes need to make it into DDA. Auto-collection of loot. Loot with working stat ranges, lack of abundant trash loot (and loot despawns caused by this, etc.) Stages with SENSIBLE play times to complete; both regular and survival. Along with the promised improvements like inventory management - stuff that neither DD1 nor DD2 did very well. I love both games with my heart and soul. But in their CURRENT states, if given the choice, I'd opt to play DD2.

What does the current build of DD2 offer? Why is it so appealing to folks that, like you and I, are sad to see its new content support ending? A big one, mind you easy to describe: stages are short, sweet, and to the point. They are not "fluffed out" like most of DD1's endgame maps were and still are today. I just can't do one hour plus stages that are more a battle of attrition than one of ramping, genuine difficulty. Not anymore, especially not after DD2 fixed that issue so well. Not to mention being able to switch heroes and use your inventory from anywhere on the fly. Not needing to collect mana from chests, etc. The absolute flow of things being so crisp...

And then as for loot in current DD2? You can upgrade any gear you like, legitimately any weapon model included, to be fully viable endgame gear. You can re-roll stuff to get an "almost perfect" piece to actually be "perfect." The general stats of gear are baseline and simple, meaning all dropped Legendary gear is viable. But there's also random perks (MODS) introduced back in. Which again: you're not stuck with bad ones, nor worried about losing good ones, due to tinkering and re-rolls. You spend enough time playing the game: you can tailor your gear to be just as you want it. It's not a wholly-RNG nightmare like earlier iterations of both DD2 and DD1. With the Shard Vendor incoming, that takes care of the biggest issue I had remaining. The only component of endgame play that was still wholly reliant on RNG (and not how much time you invested) was with Shard acquisition.

So with current DD2 you have them getting closer to THE core goal, one they tried so many years to achieve. Where your time spent playing the game meant you eventually got what you want. Return on investment, where your time is more valuable than money. Where there are some RNG elements to keep it addictive, of course, yet there are ways where playing long enough can now mitigate or fix your bad RNG luck. Through tinkering, re-rolls, etc. I will miss this greatly in DDA, and since it's a re-imagining of the first game: I don't expect that level of loot changes to happen. I will surely play a lot of DDA, but at the same time I'll surely miss DD2. Through all the ups and downs over many years, and yes some serious downs, DD2 finally felt close to "right." My love and support for Trendy/Chromatic is strong and unwavering, no question. But I'm a mix of both elated and sad.

Edited by ShinUkyo
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9 minutes ago, ShinUkyo said:

(My quote) then (A whole lot)

Thats not to say DD1 was all flaws, I also had a great amount of time playing it on PS3 and then again on PC. When the game moved forward so did I because I wanted to see what was next and how we could improve. Both games had their success time and both are struggling now, how do we make DDA a success and down the road remain that way? (million dollar question)

These DD1 vs DD2 wars get tiring, we should be heavily focused on trying to figure out how to mesh the two together. There are always going to be mechanics in every game we play that we get to and think "Well thats stupid, I dont like that at all" but you look past it because the rest of the game is great. The overall goal of certain modes, mechanics, styles, anything, is to get as many players as possible playing the game (especially as a multiplayer focused game) and make them want to play it forever.

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1 hour ago, Exglint said:

 

These DD1 vs DD2 wars get tiring, we should be heavily focused on trying to figure out how to mesh the two together. 

 

Above all else this is what I want. DD1 and DD2 had great features above each other and combining the two is the only way forward I think. If I wanted a DD1 remake, I'd go play DD1 on the PS3 as for DD2, same, I just go play that.

 

With DDA we need something that is still dungeon Defenders....but new.

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They've confirmed it will be a combination of the two with some new stuff.  Elandrian (Colin Fisher) said as much, at least to the newspaper reporter:

Quote

For this third outing, Fisher said the company plans to take much of the content from it’s first game and a little bit from the second iteration while shaping the game in a new way.

Full article here: https://www.gainesville.com/news/20190304/trendy-founder-takes-helm-rebrands-company-as-chromatic-games

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Exglint said:

These DD1 vs DD2 wars get tiring, we should be heavily focused on trying to figure out how to mesh the two together. There are always going to be mechanics in every game we play that we get to and think "Well thats stupid, I dont like that at all" but you look past it because the rest of the game is great. The overall goal of certain modes, mechanics, styles, anything, is to get as many players as possible playing the game (especially as a multiplayer focused game) and make them want to play it forever.

Absolutely. Like you, I adore both games. Played the hell out of both. Still enjoy both for what they did right and understand what they did wrong. And so when people come on saying "DD1 was great and DD2 is trash," it's just not objectively true. Especially since both games have undergone such radical changes in their years of development. Many people who make that statement did not play the current version of both games. It's not a balanced statement, and there's no reason for such a strong and resilient community to bash on each other for what they enjoy. We're all Defenders.

Elandrian said they are looking towards DD3, which will unquestionably bring the best parts of both prior titles into the mix. With the company being indie again, along with a classic sales model, it's going to be great. As for DDA, it looks to be more of a remake of the first game. So it will mostly be like DD1, mind you they have promised some of those important yet smaller QoL changes I mentioned. Stuff that won't change the core loop or dynamic of DD1, but will make it feel fresh and something you want to replay. So I do have high hopes!

Edited by ShinUkyo
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I really hope we get more than the core 4 heroes. For those of us on PS3 when DD1 came out, we have never had the opportunity to play DD1 maps with any heroes other than the original 4. Having new builds and towers to try out would make replaying any DD1 content through the lens of DDA well worth the revisit. 

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58 minutes ago, Jaws_420 said:

I really hope we get more than the core 4 heroes. For those of us on PS3 when DD1 came out, we have never had the opportunity to play DD1 maps with any heroes other than the original 4. Having new builds and towers to try out would make replaying any DD1 content through the lens of DDA well worth the revisit. 

Agree completely.  I hope some of the stretch goals will allow them to implement the other heroes in DD1 right now.  That would open up a lot of room in the future for new heroes.  I'm just excited for DD2 heroes to come over with the same amount of defenses as DD1 heroes.

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