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Questions about AP reset


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I'm ascension level 210-something and have beaten onslaught floor 28, so it won't be too long until I meet the conditions for the first AP reset.  So I'm wondering about some details.

Since every additional onslaught floor increases the minimum ascension level (by 12?) it seems that I should keep advancing in onslaught at least as long as I can easily clear floors.  Is there any general wisdom for when to reset?

AFAIK all gear is reset to campaign tier and all shards are reset to level 1.  I guess this goes for gear and shards stored in the inventory and vault as well?  Chips and servos will retain their levels but are reset to campaign tier, right?

Since tinkering cost goes up with gear tier, does it make sense to wait until the AP reset before transferring any mods?  I suppose doing a few mods at C7 could help me clear some additional onslaught floors.

Does anything happen to crafting materials or gold?  If they stay intact, I could pretty easily upgrade my gear right after the reset and skip the first few chaos tiers (depending on how much materials I have stored at that point).

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General Wisdom for ap reset :

1: Don't reset until you didn't reach at least 200+ talent caps(Beause  talent cap give 20 Defense Power per points and the Cap limit is 999 , if you reset at 200,your 140 points which is current limit will become 340)

140/140 Hero Hp becomes 340 as Cap . To gain more Talent cap you need to do more Onslaught floors .

You can check your talent cap and Ascension level gained in the powers screen in your inventory

2.Don't reset until you didn't reach at least Min Ascension 500+

3.Don't reset until you didn't reach floor 100 +

4.All gears(Inventory,Vaults,equipped) reset to  campaign level. It is impossible to trade gears or buy C7 gears once you reset . You can only farm OR upgrade some of your favorite Modded gears back to C7 .

5. Re-upgrade your favorite Modded/Un-Modded gears will cost you :

1 of each chaos tier Ampoules , 1,800,000 Gold for one relic, 40 plain motes, 50 Shiny Motes,20 Pristine Motes,4-6 of each chaos tier clusters(for relics) , for others gears heck the maps drops and farm at least 6-10 of each .

6.When your stuff goes back to campaign level it's easier to Mod an item because it cost 25 Defender medals to mod  an item compared to others chaos, but it's more expensive to upgrade back  to chaos 7 because you have to spend a lot of gold,motes and others materials

7. Gold,Materials stay intact, Mods on items doesn't lose level,they stay intact as well,a 10/10 Anti melee at C7 stay 10/10 at Reset,but the bonus from the mod is not the same.

8. To know how Ancient Powers work  and give you  an idea when to reset,go read that wiki page :

https://wiki.dungeondefenders2.com/wiki/Ancient_Power_Calculations



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I can answer some of this for you


@tdb quote:

AFAIK all gear is reset to campaign tier and all shards are reset to level 1.  I guess this goes for gear and shards stored in the inventory and vault as well?  Chips and servos will retain their levels but are reset to campaign tier, right?

Correct - all gear (equipped, vault, bag, etc...) resets back to campaign tier and level 1. All shards go back to level 1. Only gilded shards retain their level. All mods go back to campaign tier. 


Since tinkering cost goes up with gear tier, does it make sense to wait until the AP reset before transferring any mods?  I suppose doing a few mods at C7 could help me clear some additional onslaught floors.

Only if you don't need it before then and what materials you have the most of. Many of us have tons of C7 material and not nearly as much C1-3 materials, so doing it on C7 is actually easier in that regard. But you are correct in that waiting would be a way to do it cheaper. 


Does anything happen to crafting materials or gold?  If they stay intact, I could pretty easily upgrade my gear right after the reset and skip the first few chaos tiers (depending on how much materials I have stored at that point).

They are unaffected, apart from the fact that your gold obtaining ability will gain 5% going forward. On your first reset, it is likely you have plenty of materials to climb back up. Just keep in mind that you may be doing 30+ resets, so those materials will dwindle fast. If you don't have to upgrade something, don't use the materials until you need it. Some things can be left at campaign level strength all the way through each reset cycle. 


One final note - once you begin resets you enter a loop so to speak. Before you do that, make sure you have done most of the climbing goals you wanted to achieve - most notably Mastery. if yo had plans to tackle this mode at all, i recommend doing that before you begin resetting. 

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My two cents to add to the above. Wait until they fix / modify AP to not be so darned material consuming. It becomes a wasted effort. 

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@Zombina quote:

3.Don't reset until you didn't reach floor 100 +

That seems like an awfully high number.  Does onslaught scaling change significantly after C7?  I just completed floor 30 (mid-C7) with my mostly-C6 untinkered gear and it was moderately difficult.  If the scaling remains the same I have difficulty imagining how to get enough stats to progress much past floor 40.

As an aside, reaching floor 100 alone gives +291 talent caps and 873 minimum ascension, rendering items 1 and 2 superfluous.

@Jaws_420 quote:

Only if you don't need it before then and what materials you have the most of. Many of us have tons of C7 material and not nearly as much C1-3 materials, so doing it on C7 is actually easier in that regard. But you are correct in that waiting would be a way to do it cheaper.  

That is a good point.  I have only just reached C7 so I mostly have the lower materials, but if I keep farming to perfect my gear I'm sure to obtain plenty of C7 materials.  And I guess the medal costs aren't that bad now that I have all of the heroes with unique defenses.

@Jaws_420 quote:

One final note - once you begin resets you enter a loop so to speak. Before you do that, make sure you have done most of the climbing goals you wanted to achieve - most notably Mastery. if yo had plans to tackle this mode at all, i recommend doing that before you begin resetting. 

Is completing masteries going to be more difficult the second time around?  It has taken me less than two weeks to get from zero to C7 and I've done other things besides progressing too, so it doesn't seem like getting back there after a reset would be a huge deal.

My perspective here is heavily colored by playing incremental games like Cookie Clicker and Trimps.  In those the entire point of the game is to perform repeated soft resets to accumulate some sort of prestige resource and make each successive run easier.  Generally it's not even possible to complete all of the goals in the game on the first playthrough since you simply don't have the necessary stats.  Admittedly DD2's AP gives very modest bonuses in comparison.

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@Zombina quote:

General Wisdom for ap reset :

1: Don't reset until you didn't reach at least 200+ talent caps

2.Don't reset until you didn't reach at least Min Ascension 500+

3.Don't reset until you didn't reach floor 100 +

4.All gears(Inventory,Vaults,equipped) reset to  campaign level. It is impossible to trade gears or buy C7 gears once you reset . You can only farm OR upgrade some of your favorite Modded gears back to C7 .

Just a quick glance at math says floor 100 will give you +280 talent caps and 840 min asc which means you invalidated your first two points by having point 3 :thinking:

Point 4 - It is not impossible to buy higher level gear when you are campaign, it is auto scaled to your tier when you buy it

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@Exglint quote:
@Zombina quote:

4.All gears(Inventory,Vaults,equipped) reset to  campaign level. It is impossible to trade gears or buy C7 gears once you reset . You can only farm OR upgrade some of your favorite Modded gears back to C7 .

Point 4 - It is not impossible to buy higher level gear when you are campaign, it is auto scaled to your tier when you buy it

I guess this also applies to players who are just starting out and is not specific to AP resets?

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@tdb quote:
@Zombina quote:

3.Don't reset until you didn't reach floor 100 +

That seems like an awfully high number.  Does onslaught scaling change significantly after C7?  I just completed floor 30 (mid-C7) with my mostly-C6 untinkered gear and it was moderately difficult.  If the scaling remains the same I have difficulty imagining how to get enough stats to progress much past floor 40.

As an aside, reaching floor 100 alone gives +291 talent caps and 873 minimum ascension, rendering items 1 and 2 superfluous.

Each 10 floors the floors become stronger , for example at floor 150 if I remember correctly,the small melee mobs have arround 10M hp,the bosses arround 150m+

It's not the  difficulty that is a problem,it's the modifiers , each doors have a modifier,after  a while they go to 2 but you have to climb higher in the floors .

You have to take your time to read the modifiers and react then (Towers placement,,Hero swap etc...)

At floor 100+ yeah they are a big challenge but if you farm gears and mods and prepare yourself correctly,as well ascension level,you can get through it . you can even reach floor 100 at asc 400 (I reached 124 at asc 372)

you need enough ascension  points on  your towers,build your towers properly,understand the map and their modifiers, etc ... that won't be too hard .

if you're stuck you can just reset but i really advice first time reset asc 500,floor 100 Min ... Good luck

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@tdb quote:
@Exglint quote:
@Zombina quote:

4.All gears(Inventory,Vaults,equipped) reset to  campaign level. It is impossible to trade gears or buy C7 gears once you reset . You can only farm OR upgrade some of your favorite Modded gears back to C7 .

Point 4 - It is not impossible to buy higher level gear when you are campaign, it is auto scaled to your tier when you buy it

I guess this also applies to players who are just starting out and is not specific to AP resets?

Should yes, it was an attempt to make it so that no one is unable to trade

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Ap resets also change the floor you need to reach to reset again. At a certain point you are doing 51 to 80 to reset. Ap 20 is floor 58 I think.

IMO one should strive to get at least floor 80 before resetting as you will need to do it if you plan to do a lot of resets. 

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@tdb quote:

Is completing masteries going to be more difficult the second time around?  It has taken me less than two weeks to get from zero to C7 and I've done other things besides progressing too, so it doesn't seem like getting back there after a reset would be a huge deal.

My perspective here is heavily colored by playing incremental games like Cookie Clicker and Trimps.  In those the entire point of the game is to perform repeated soft resets to accumulate some sort of prestige resource and make each successive run easier.  Generally it's not even possible to complete all of the goals in the game on the first playthrough since you simply don't have the necessary stats.  Admittedly DD2's AP gives very modest bonuses in comparison.

Resetting will not make Mastery any easier, because that mode caps your stats to the Chaos Tier you are playing on. It is best to do all of Mastery before you begin the reset loop. One of the main reasons is that several levels demand that you have at least 10 different defenses, and one level asks for 10 different towers to be used. Once everything is campaign level again, this makes having these kinds of defenses very prohibitive, whereas someone at C7 would likely have quite a few setup by then. Many of us shiver at the idea of redoing Mastery (unless we got new rewards that is, but even then....). Mastery is an end-game mode though IMO. 

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It’s a long story but to answer your question, it’s best to reset when you can no longer get any higher on Onslaught. To me your level is not important as you get plenty of exp boost after a few resets, but ideally you want to reset at 500.

My first reset was on Floor 32 and level 300. I’ve learnt from my mistake and now I understand what to do.

Before you reset:

Farm all 3 Motes. (Atleast 300 each) This will allow you to skip Chaos tiers so you can get back to Chaos 7.

Have atleast 10-15 million gold, this is important as grinding gold is extremely long especially when upgrade your gear to Chaos 7

Hypershards do get reset so have enough gold for that too. (2,000,000 to max 1 hyper shard)

Only focus on 1 hero because you will not have enough gold to upgrade all of your heroes, you’ll barely have enough for that 1 hero.

Make sure you have 1 anti air, 1 Tower, 1 Barrier and 1 or 2 Auras. 

Have glided shards for your chosen hero. Glided shards do not get affected by the resets which means you don’t have to spend gold on upgrading it.

Have a Material Vault as you can hold all of your ingredients and motes forever. It’s optional but I still recommend it.

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@Zombina quote:

Each 10 floors the floors become stronger , for example at floor 150 if I remember correctly,the small melee mobs have arround 10M hp,the bosses arround 150m+

Okay, so the health scaling gets much less steep.  That's good to know.  In general it seems to be much more linear than I expected; there's only a very modest exponential term from floor 3 to 30 and based on your info it seems to reverse somewhere above that.  I was worried that with exponential growth like many other games have the bosses would become unkillable very quickly.

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This is controversial but, just reset whenever you feel like it.


just make sure you have enough mats to upgrade a couple relics to carry yourself though

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@tdb quote:
@Zombina quote:

Each 10 floors the floors become stronger , for example at floor 150 if I remember correctly,the small melee mobs have arround 10M hp,the bosses arround 150m+

Okay, so the health scaling gets much less steep.  That's good to know.  In general it seems to be much more linear than I expected; there's only a very modest exponential term from floor 3 to 30 and based on your info it seems to reverse somewhere above that.  I was worried that with exponential growth like many other games have the bosses would become unkillable very quickly.

It is linear all the time everywhere, just Onslaught looks more linear than Expeditions because there is no jump between tiers. Each floor increases mob levels by a specified amount based on an equation. HP and Damage is based on level. So using that we can determine that each floor increases mobs linearly for each floor you go up.

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@Exglint quote:

It is linear all the time everywhere, just Onslaught looks more linear than Expeditions because there is no jump between tiers. Each floor increases mob levels by a specified amount based on an equation. HP and Damage is based on level. So using that we can determine that each floor increases mobs linearly for each floor you go up.

Based on the data I have it doesn't seem perfectly linear.

Floor 3: about 2 million HP

Floor 17: about 19 million HP

Floor 30: about 45 million HP

Floor 150: about 150 million HP (from Zombina)

The others are approximately linear at close to 1 million HP per floor, but on floor 30 the health is anomalously high.  I suppose some of this may be explained if the numbers are from different bosses on different floors.

Still, it's nowhere near the exponential curve I was expecting, which is the main thing.

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@tdb quote:
@Exglint quote:

It is linear all the time everywhere, just Onslaught looks more linear than Expeditions because there is no jump between tiers. Each floor increases mob levels by a specified amount based on an equation. HP and Damage is based on level. So using that we can determine that each floor increases mobs linearly for each floor you go up.

Based on the data I have it doesn't seem perfectly linear.

Floor 3: about 2 million HP

Floor 17: about 19 million HP

Floor 30: about 45 million HP

Floor 150: about 150 million HP (from Zombina)

The others are approximately linear at close to 1 million HP per floor, but on floor 30 the health is anomalously high.  I suppose some of this may be explained if the numbers are from different bosses on different floors.

Still, it's nowhere near the exponential curve I was expecting, which is the main thing.

the 150 million is for the boss,not the mobs,the small one got 20-40M,the big golem 80M  and the flying got 10-20m  arround


@Exglint quote:


@Zombina quote:

Each 10 floors the floors become stronger

Source or research?

Personal gameplay,I don't remember for low floors,it's been long time I didn't reset but between floors 30 and 150,the melee mobs got arround 30-40M and the bosses 150-200M so yeah ,each floors increase their levels and hp but for example floors with 4(for the  temple) and 9 (the drakenlord area,you can see  the diffence  in health and damage. But for sure the health rise up a you progress in the floors . at floor 300+ the assassins One shot and they  got  arround 70M +

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You have to remember that mutators are a thing because I also see 150m hp bosses and up to 200m at floor 80 and each boss isnt the same as another boss, they each have their own scalars and bases.

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@tdb quote:

Based on the data I have it doesn't seem perfectly linear.

Floor 3: about 2 million HP

Floor 17: about 19 million HP

Floor 30: about 45 million HP

Floor 150: about 150 million HP (from Zombina)

The others are approximately linear at close to 1 million HP per floor, but on floor 30 the health is anomalously high.  I suppose some of this may be explained if the numbers are from different bosses on different floors.

Still, it's nowhere near the exponential curve I was expecting, which is the main thing.

Just going to add that you may see cases of 100 million + HP bosses around the early 50s or so.

About my take on when you could reset, for my case I would just recommend reseting when your min asc hits more than 250 and of course you've got what you've wanted from Mastery.

However, when I did my first reset, it was the time when Onslaught's progression curve was just way too slow (can you imagine a floor is 3 maps (usually it's 1 map - 2 maps - 3 maps rotation until floor 60 where every floor have 3 maps) and to be able to reset, you must hit floor 64. And for my case asc lvl 789 + floor 114 equals 192 min asc and if I'm not mistaken 110 extra talent cap - you only get extra talent caps past floor 60.)

So now, what I would recommend higher than my first recommendation is to push as high as you can get those sweet talent caps and min asc points. You get the bonus way faster and better than the last iteration now! And of course, best to finish Mastery first.

Or....like Beer Goggles said, do whatever you want ;) (Just in jest)

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First of all, sorry if you not completely understood. English is not my native language and I'm writing with the help of a translator.. Look, I give you a piece of advice as my own experience in the face of the difficulties I encountered and that I am suffering right now. 

1- You must first have a hero with pure DPS, in my case, he is a monk. Make sure you have good quality mods on the weapon and your gear (quality 8-9-10) , and all the shards gilded in your hero.

2- Prepare a powerful defense that helps you the first floors without the need for other defenses. In my case, Weapon Manufacturer with Water Servo and Shock Revelation +10 , tenacity +9 , and the shards Destruction, Defense rate , Deadly Strike Gilded. Believe me that with this single defense you can reach floors 40 without problems if you place the nodes very well


3 - As they said up there, make your first reset on the floor 100+ ,and with a level of ascension 500+ .Climbing more floors will raise your minimum level of ascension and your talent caps. In my Case, my first AP reset I did it on the 100th floor and i got 940 AP LVL with 326 talent caps, which expanded my limit of 140 to 466. if you increase your minimum level of ascension above 250 (I recommend uploading it more), it will not be necessary to upload 250 levels again, which will make your next reset faster and easier.


4 - Unfortunately improving all your defenses to C7 has a high cost of materials and gold. at least you have to have a lot of materials, and minimum 20 million gold. if your mods are high, and you have the shards gilded in your hero. you'll save yourself too much at least until reset 10 times. 


Personally I recommend you update only 1 defense and your weapon , in my case, I only update my Weapon Manufacturer and my weapon. I do not update my gear because my monk's DPS is too high and sufficient for the first 40 - 50 floors. I have saved a lot of gold and materials. momentarily I am stuck in 6 resets for the lack of materials to continue restarting.

Use the resets to correct your mods, you will save gold and medals.

I hope to be useful. Regards!

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@hailminion quote:

1. I think u need to get to 100+, not for the cap, but to see if you are capable of doing resets. AP require you to go to floor 80, with restriction of throw-away relic (un-upgraded, un-modified/tinkered) and  <=3 sets of upgraded shards. If you cannot get to floor 100 easily with a full sets of gear/relic/shards( >3 fully upgraded sets ), you can't get to floor 80 with trash mods/relic and 0 upgrade shards, with the exception of 2 or 3 partially upgraded sets. 

That is actually the first solid argument I've heard for reaching floor 100 before first reset.  Coming from the previous posters it just felt like an arbitrary number.  I like it when there are reasons behind things.

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Ap scaling with floors needed

https://wiki.dungeondefenders2.com/wiki/Ancient_Power_Calculations 

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I've seen that wiki page, just didn't make the connection before hailminion mentioned it.  Compared to a traditional incremental game the power increase from AP resets is very small, and my brain had not fully processed the implications.

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I am only on AP 6, and really only plan on getting to AP 10 for the +50% bonuses, and that's it. Unless there are plans to rework Ancient Power(again), I have no desire past that point and do not feel like there's any point in getting "slightly" stronger for content that has already been trivial for the past several months already, high Onslaught floors aside. So my opinion may not matter much to some of the veterans here. I also don't have any shards gilded yet.

I would not reset until you have at least a minimum ASC of 250, or close to it. If you are at least at 250, you don't have to worry about gaining levels once you hit your reset floor. Once you reset, you will be in a loop of sorts, and if you are not prepared then it can feel like a huge setback.

If you plan on upgrading your relics each reset, then you should spend the time BEFORE your first reset to farm for the needed materials and gold. It will make life a lot easier, but also time consuming. 

If you are not/don't care/don't have the mats and funds to upgrade, then that's fine as well. It will just take LONGER to get to the higher floors and to reset again.

As far as gear goes, you can get back to your reset floor with random relics, but it will (obviously) be a little harder, and again time consuming. Upgrading at least 1 tower to push through is a good idea, although expensive. Weapon Man is a good idea because of its CC, and luckily, you don't even need to upgrade that since you are not using it for its damage.

Honestly though, AP is just a matter of TIME. It is not difficult by any means, just a matter of how much time you are willing to put in it. Upgrading your gear just allows you to blow through it faster than you would if you didn’t. Using random gear with random MODS can be a pain, but definitely still doable.

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