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Some random feedback


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I managed to lure a friend back into the game.  We both last played actively around the time when chaos trials were released.  While the game has improved a lot since then, we found a number of things that could still be better (in no particular order):

It's kinda boring that in most maps you can build all defenses up front and then only need to upgrade in later waves.  We seem to recall that in DD1 mana was limited such that you had to build your defenses in stages and sometimes defend one lane with your hero in the first wave.  Also some maps and higher difficulties in DD1 had limited time in build phase.  As an example from another game, OMD!U has very limited initial resources and no upgrades, so you have to build more defenses over time and also plan your first defenses around what you'll build later.

It's also boring how almost all maps have five waves.  It doesn't give a satisfying feeling of mounting threat.

Another thing OMD!U does well here is that the enemy gates open gradually over the course of the map.  Typically the first wave only has one gate open and the last wave has all of them, which on most maps is around four.  In some maps gates may open and close multiple times, so you have to decide whether to keep your defenses there for later or sell them and build stronger defenses elsewhere but lose some resources in the process.

Information tooltips for items on the ground get hidden behind the HUD, making them difficult to read.

DD1's upgrade and repair mechanic was more interesting since it forced you to remain close to the defense, potentially in harm's way, and making the strategic choice between repairing or attacking enemies.

Defense ranges feel inadequate and bonuses for it are hard to acquire.

The game could really use some kind of level sync mechanic outside of masteries to allow players with lower gera to meaningfully contribute.

Incentives for all players to build defenses would also be welcome.  Currently it seems to only make sense for the most powerful player to build.

The segregation of combat and defenses stats into different items is a good thing, but each defense being only affected by one single relic seems a bit lackluster.

Similarly, dividing ascension talents into combat and defense is a good idea, but misses its mark by having the combined utility category.  It promotes single-purpose heroes, down to using only one type of defense per hero.

The inventory is apparently rendered very inefficiently and causes frame rate to drop.  This is not an issue for me but my friend has a 144 Hz monitor and while the game otherwise runs at full framerate for him, opening the inventory causes it to drop to 100 fps or so.

Moving items between inventory bags is somewhat tedious.

There's no way to sell all items of a particular rarity.

The delay in the sell all confirmation dialog is annoying and we wish there was a way to turn it off.

My friend had trouble getting Piercing Shot fly where he wanted to and was wondering if there's some kind of auto-aim that throws it off.

Enemies seem to spawn rather slowly compared to DD1.

Dailies are boring.  They're always just do X maps in this or that region.  It would be more interesting if they had modifiers similar to mastery.

While it's nice that the weekly quests are not such a huge grind anymore, now they're outright trivial.  Win two maps without losing a sub-core?  Kill 100 enemies with abilities?  Those require no effort at all.  Also they are not interesting, because those are things you do anyway.

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I agree with most of those ideas.

"Incentives for all players to build defenses would also be welcome. Currently it seems to only make sense for the most powerful player to build."

Maybe a game mode with separate DU for each player?

You could still solo it if you manage to use 25% of the DU.....

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@Ryzours quote:

Maybe a game mode with separate DU for each player?

You could still solo it if you manage to use 25% of the DU.....

It shouldn't happen at the expense of single player experience, so if DU is split it should be split according to the number of players actually ingame when the first build phase starts.

The idea we had was making build mana undroppable.  That way if you wanted to get all defenses out in the first wave you'd all have to build.  But it would still be possible for one player to build everything, it would just have to happen over multiple waves.

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Build up defenses in stages. This doesn’t fit into DD2 now or even in the past.

Not all maps have five waves. Some six. Onslaught has this as well. 

You can disable the countdown to sell it disenchant items. 

Bonus for multiple players building. It’s a nice idea on paper but in practice it would merely place more of a focus on MP games when DD needs more of a single player balance as well. 

Dailies may be boring but needs careful consideration to not lock out players from completing (eg kill 500 enemies at greater than 5,000 range). 

Relics use to be power, speed, and crit. The new relic system actually seems better and more useful than the old systems. 

Repairing a defense, I loved this mechanic and DD1 and wish it had made its way to DD2. 

OMD:U! Is a good game. But it’s player base is less than DD2. Wouldn’t take too much from it since it’s nearly failed at launch and dwindling now. It’s a good game but lacks longevity that even that which DD2 offers. The big difference is DD2 is much more gated. Too much gated. 

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Might be fun to have an Incursion style map that is based on the number of players playing - so 1 player = 1-2 lanes, and then 1 lane added for each player who joins. Each player gets DU for only their lane, and cannot drop it for others. Everyone has to build in their lane only. They cannot drop anything in the other lanes, but maybe near the crystal there is a small area that is shared for team building for a last ditch def.  

Ok, so there are a lot of potential issues with such an idea, but i kind of like the forced multi-play angle. Not on every map mind you...but as an one-off. Just an idea...  

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@Kambien quote:

Build up defenses in stages. This doesn’t fit into DD2 now or even in the past.

Why not?  DD1 had it to an extent.  The new lost temple map has it, sort of, since it opens two new lanes during the map.

DD2 does have upgrades so it doesn't make sense to go quite as far with this as OMD!U does, but I think it would make things more interesting if the first build phase only gave 50-70% of the mana required for a full build.

Another related thing is that most of the mana comes in build phases and it's not really possible to lose any mana on the ground.  In DD1 it was much more important to collect and use mana during combat so that there would be room for new drops.

@Kambien quote:

Not all maps have five waves. Some six. Onslaught has this as well. 

Which ones have six waves?  All of the normal ones have five, except for the first campaign map which has three.  The Harbinger boss map has four, or at least it had when I last played it a couple of years ago.  I don't recall if Betsy has a special boss wave in addition to the five normal waves or if the fifth wave is the boss wave.

So far I've only had five-wave maps in onslaught.  How far do I need to play to get maps with more waves?  You aren't thinking of the old onslaught are you?

It would be nice if some maps had 10-15 waves or even more, like DD1's endless mode (which wasn't really endless, but still a lot longer than standard maps).

@Kambien quote:

You can disable the countdown to sell it disenchant items. 

Where?  I can't find a setting for it and the dialog itself doesn't have a checkbox either.

@Kambien quote:

Bonus for multiple players building. It’s a nice idea on paper but in practice it would merely place more of a focus on MP games when DD needs more of a single player balance as well. 

Single player is good as it is.  I don't think there should be any kind of stat bonus in multiplayer either; it just would be nice if all multiplayer games didn't end up being one player carrying the rest.

@Kambien quote:

Dailies may be boring but needs careful consideration to not lock out players from completing (eg kill 500 enemies at greater than 5,000 range). 

Mastery modifiers have plenty of examples which are accessible to all players.

@Kambien quote:

OMD:U! Is a good game. But it’s player base is less than DD2. Wouldn’t take too much from it since it’s nearly failed at launch and dwindling now. It’s a good game but lacks longevity that even that which DD2 offers. The big difference is DD2 is much more gated. Too much gated. 

OMD!U suffered from a lack of clear direction, which led to players abandoning the game.  Initially it was very MOBA-centric, which probably wasn't too attractive for the players who liked the previous two games.  Then they removed the MOBA part, which drove that audience away.  The new PvP mode wasn't quite as popular.  Had they just stuck to the MOBA or focused on PvE from the start it probably would have fared better.

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@hailminion quote:

All temple and drakenfrost (4's & 9's) have 6 waves. I'm not sure how far, I can't recall the exact number for temple, but all draken keep have 6 waves. and temple opens up one lane every wave, and the final wave is omega wave, which shows 3 - 8 bosses iirc. 

I must not be far enough yet, because my floor 16 temple had five waves, didn't open a new lane on the second wave and only had two bosses on the final wave.  I seem to recall that earlier temples have only opened two new lanes.  Good to know it will get more interesting later.

Then there's the fact that I can't just play temple whenever I want.  It doesn't appear on onslaught every time.  Even if I could chain temples, it would eventually get boring.  I'd like to have more maps with similar mechanics.

@hailminion quote:

It is not if you do not choose to. Maybe max 1% of my time has spent on being carried or carrying, and the rest 99% I'm either playing with people at my own level (which require all of us to contribute and try hard) or I solo if I cannot find people. 

The specific situation that brought this up was playing with a friend who was starting from chaos 1 gear when I was already on the brink of chaos 5.  We still had to play maps according to his champion rating, but there was little incentive for him to do anything else than dump his build mana on me and get carried.  We certainly could have beaten chaos 1-3 maps even if I had only used my share of the mana, but he's very efficiency oriented so I'd be hard pressed to get him to place arbitrary, unenforced restrictions on gameplay.  If there was a level sync option which capped my stats we might have used that.  Masteries do have it but IIRC they give less loot so they are not conductive to getting him geared up.

@hailminion quote:

Is that why everybody already has Automation hyper shard? 

I think that was sarcasm.  Obviously I didn't mean that every combination of mastery goals is easily beatable by anyone.  But consider the fact that every player has access to the four basic heroes.  That makes at least the "don't use towers/auras/traps" viable for dailies.  Requiring a single class of defense might be too advanced for some players, but I'd gladly take that too.  Then there's the more generic no core damage / don't lose subcores / no hero deaths etc.  Those are kinda easy too, but they'd have at least a token effect on gameplay.

Another potential category is dailies tied to heroes.  Play X maps as hero Y, kill X enemies with ability Y or something like that.  It should be easy enough to check which heroes the player has and not generate impossible dailies.

Basically what I'm asking is something that makes me play maps in a different way that what I normally do.  The current dailies barely affect anything.  What's worse, if I go to the tavern to pick a map that fits my dailies, I lose my win streak bonus.  At best they are something I hardly notice; at worst they are a chore I need to do before I can get to the actual fun things.

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Level sync wouldn't necessarily be all that time-consuming for Trendy to implement.  Masteries already do that, so the code is there; what's needed is a checkbox to enable it for any map and maybe some other UI changes (session browser would need to show if it's synced or not).

It's honestly kinda sad that so many require you to play tens of hours before the "real game" begins.  Some games do this better than others; Final Fantasy XIV for example has very enjoyable story content on the way to max level.  DD2 has seen a lot of progress in this respect as well, and now gearing up through the chaos tiers actually feels satisfying.  It would be nice if the tinkering system wasn't essentially pointless until late game, but I realize it's extremely hard to balance so it would be relevant the entire way.

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@Jaws_420 quote:

Might be fun to have an Incursion style map that is based on the number of players playing - so 1 player = 1-2 lanes, and then 1 lane added for each player who joins. Each player gets DU for only their lane, and cannot drop it for others. Everyone has to build in their lane only. They cannot drop anything in the other lanes, but maybe near the crystal there is a small area that is shared for team building for a last ditch def.  

Ok, so there are a lot of potential issues with such an idea, but i kind of like the forced multi-play angle. Not on every map mind you...but as an one-off. Just an idea...  

Forced multi-play already exists, on console anyway. 
No more than one of any specific tower.
30 second build
10 towers minimum. 
Good ol' Mastery.

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@jaden198 quote:

Forced multi-play already exists, on console anyway. 
No more than one of any specific tower.
30 second build
10 towers minimum. 
Good ol' Mastery.

Except, in all the time i played Mastery, getting every single star, and i played almost every single map in public - i can count on one hand how many times one other player ever joined, and zero times more than 1. So in that sense, it's a complete fail on the multi part. At least a singular incursion style map would focus that effort, but in all reality - gating has fragmented the DD2 community pretty severely, and playing a focused multi map seems a long reach at this point.

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