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jaden198

Combination of Ideas

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I've done a few resets now, and I think I've identified a couple adjustments that could improve the experience for both players choosing to reset and for players who don't/can't.

1.  Playing low level content in order to farm motes.  I fully understand the benefits of forcing this practice upon us.  It puts players in low tiers to increase the perception that the game has an active player-base.  I.E. Existing players aren't hidden from new players.  It works in tandem with increasing drops based on players in a mission.  That said, it has to be tremendously demoralizing for new players when someone joins their lobby and simply obliterates the map.  At a minimum, they have to be bored out of their minds when mobs are obliterated before they can exit the spawns.  Lord knows that my only goal when I'm back at Chaos 1 is to farm motes as quickly as I can.  Once their back playing solo, they get to feel just how weak they are when they try to fight the same tier.

2.  C8 upgrades.  With the current setup, there's zero reason to upgrade an item to C8 if you plan on resetting again.  Short term gain for a LONG term loss.  C8 amps sit unused.

So, here's a couple ideas to kick around:

1.  Use the Mastery setup to cap power through Chaos Tiers for folks who reset.  If my power level is more in line with a normal player, they won't have to watch me blow through content with which they struggle.  They could actually see setups that they could use rather than a fire aura at every spawn point and go....

2. Increase the number of motes that drop each map.  If we cap power based on chaos tier, we'll drastically increase the time needed to clear a map.  We can offset the lack of speed with increased motes.  Takes twice as long to clear a map due to power cap, but  get twice as many motes = roughly the same time to progress.

3.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, treat c8 items like Guilded Shards.  Don't reset them on....reset.
    a.  Provides a reason to push floors.  Finding a C8 to avoid having to start from scratch would certainly keep me pushing.
    b.  Provides a reason to actually use them.  As it sits, they don't get touched until you're finished resetting.

Speaking only for myself, after 13 resets, I have exactly ONE relic on which I'd use a C8.  The rest need better mods.  As for weapons/armor, I don't even bother to level them because of the time/resources needed.

End result:
We keep flipping down to Chaos 1, but with a decreasing sense of soul crushing despair due to some of our items (C8) coming along intact.  We've got plenty of reason to keep farming as it would take just shy of an eternity to fully outfit an army of characters in C8 items.  We'd likely farm our brains out before creating those C8 items, because the mods would have to be perfect before we locked them in.  Lord knows that re-rolls aren't, and shouldn't, be successful enough to rely on them to perfect the mod later.  And Lord REALLY knows that we don't want to have to raise another relic/item to C8 just to move a, fully leveled, mod to our existing C8 item.  

We continue to interact with lower/newer players as there's a continued purpose in farming low level content (motes and mods).   All the while, newer/lower players get to play games where they feel seemingly useful.  Hell, they might even be able to place a tower or two!

I'm sure there's about a dozen gaps in these ideas.  I'm also sure that ya'll will be quick to identify them.

Have at it.

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Some great ideas. 

I think the amount of materials we need for lower level upgrading is just way off. It should be somewhat at the same pace  as your progress IMO, and not force to to grind out lower levels, well below your capabilities in end-game play, just to farm a resource. I would suggest - the numbers needed should be drastically cut on resets, or the amounts you get should gain multipliers for each reset. I do not think that end game players want to be stuck playing lower maps unless there is a need to do so, and just to farm mats are not really a good enough reason IMO. I think that is why some play with just campaign level gear if they can. 


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whenever i play with noobs, i try not to build so that way it’s more fun for them butttt this is actually the opposite of what they want from my experience playing with low levels. they love having enemies obliterated. 


Also, it’s fun destroying enemies and being OP for the lower chaos tiers

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@super_slayan quote:

Also, it’s fun destroying enemies and being OP for the lower chaos tiers

oh my...i love that too. 

Back in the day, when i first got my hands on FF7...my fave thing to do, just because it is mean, is to go back to the first area, take on a 1 HP rabbit, and then W-Summon Knights of the Round on it. Do millions of damage in attack to it. Why? BECAUSE I CAN!!!! AH HA HA HA HA. 

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@jaden198 quote:

1.  Use the Mastery setup to cap power through Chaos Tiers for folks who reset.  If my power level is more in line with a normal player, they won't have to watch me blow through content with which they struggle.  They could actually see setups that they could use rather than a fire aura at every spawn point and go....

3.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, treat c8 items like Guilded Shards.  Don't reset them on....reset.
    a.  Provides a reason to push floors.  Finding a C8 to avoid having to start from scratch would certainly keep me pushing.
    b.  Provides a reason to actually use them.  As it sits, they don't get touched until you're finished resetting.

End result:
We keep flipping down to Chaos 1, but with a decreasing sense of soul crushing despair due to some of our items (C8) coming along intact.  We've got plenty of reason to keep farming as it would take just shy of an eternity to fully outfit an army of characters in C8 items.

1 - So i'd assume you mean like Mastery lowers your gear based on tier you are in, then increases it as you progress through.

3 - Not resetting c8 gear would leave so many people perma resetting since the gear reset would have zero effect on them

End Result - It would take me all of about 10 mins to out fit an army in c8 gear, because only 1 c8 amp is required to make anything c8, and I have 43 with the ability to farm about 30 a week. If I heard a patch like this coming I would quickly gather amps and make all reset invalid and just blaze through them for as long as I could handle the scenery. Probably stopping at AP 1k out of sheer boredom.

I understand the pain, Im on 47 at the time of this posting and Im losing my mind being weak since I level nothing and use relics I find on the ground. My cycle goes pretty much like this - Hit button, assign Asc and AP point, level shards needed, go to floor 30 to gather 5 relics with any mods, go to floor 51 and climb to 80 while searching for relics with better mods that fit the defense better, go back to town and hit button. Takes about 12 hours to do solo and I dont have a great deal of power using whatever manages to drop.

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Really like this thread and where people are going with it.  Here's hoping the ever-so-quiet Trendy surprises us with information or in-game AP updates such as these or versions of these in the near future.

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@Exglint quote:


@jaden198 quote:

1.  Use the Mastery setup to cap power through Chaos Tiers for folks who reset.  If my power level is more in line with a normal player, they won't have to watch me blow through content with which they struggle.  They could actually see setups that they could use rather than a fire aura at every spawn point and go....

3.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, treat c8 items like Guilded Shards.  Don't reset them on....reset.
    a.  Provides a reason to push floors.  Finding a C8 to avoid having to start from scratch would certainly keep me pushing.
    b.  Provides a reason to actually use them.  As it sits, they don't get touched until you're finished resetting.

End result:
We keep flipping down to Chaos 1, but with a decreasing sense of soul crushing despair due to some of our items (C8) coming along intact.  We've got plenty of reason to keep farming as it would take just shy of an eternity to fully outfit an army of characters in C8 items.

1 - So i'd assume you mean like Mastery lowers your gear based on tier you are in, then increases it as you progress through.

3 - Not resetting c8 gear would leave so many people perma resetting since the gear reset would have zero effect on them

End Result - It would take me all of about 10 mins to out fit an army in c8 gear, because only 1 c8 amp is required to make anything c8, and I have 43 with the ability to farm about 30 a week. If I heard a patch like this coming I would quickly gather amps and make all reset invalid and just blaze through them for as long as I could handle the scenery. Probably stopping at AP 1k out of sheer boredom.

I understand the pain, Im on 47 at the time of this posting and Im losing my mind being weak since I level nothing and use relics I find on the ground. My cycle goes pretty much like this - Hit button, assign Asc and AP point, level shards needed, go to floor 30 to gather 5 relics with any mods, go to floor 51 and climb to 80 while searching for relics with better mods that fit the defense better, go back to town and hit button. Takes about 12 hours to do solo and I dont have a great deal of power using whatever manages to drop.

Many resets behind you, but following the same process.  Level 1 relic to max for the purpose of providing maximum damage.   Grab whatever relics I find to create secondary towers.  Climb, fall, repeat.


Another post suggested that only maxed c8 items would carry over.  Any thoughts on this variation of the idea?  7.5 million gold and 8 amps would certainly slam the breaks on most of us.

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@jaden198 quote:

Many resets behind you, but following the same process.  Level 1 relic to max for the purpose of providing maximum damage.   Grab whatever relics I find to create secondary towers.  Climb, fall, repeat.


Another post suggested that only maxed c8 items would carry over.  Any thoughts on this variation of the idea?  7.5 million gold and 8 amps would certainly slam the breaks on most of us.

I really like your idea. Even if the C8 item is required to be maxed. I think it’s taken for granted that not everyone can or does crush floor 225+. 

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@Kambien quote:

I really like your idea. Even if the C8 item is required to be maxed. I think it’s taken for granted that not everyone can or does crush floor 225+. 

good point. 

IMO it's important to understand that there is a sliding scale of players here from new players to those who have reset 30+ times. the majority of us do not have scores of C8 amps laying around (and likely never will), but some do. 

Finding a way to appease EVERYONE will be incredibly difficult. But, some kind of middle ground must be found, where both sides account for the fact that the other half is involved in this game too. 

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And the majority of the player base has less than five resets. Stepping into town on any server region shows this. 

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@Kambien quote:

And the majority of the player base has less than five resets. Stepping into town on any server region shows this. 

and...some, like me, never have and never will - at least  until big changes occur with the current system. So even the # of resets done does not necessary equate to how long someone has played the game or how far they have gotten in it. 

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@jaden198 quote:

Another post suggested that only maxed c8 items would carry over.  Any thoughts on this variation of the idea?  7.5 million gold and 8 amps would certainly slam the breaks on most of us.

Its 9.5m gold and 6 amps to do :P and yea that would keep many people from doing it but those able to would carry on with my previous strategy because there is still no disadvantage. With the amps I have that would still leave me with 4 relics and all my Huntress' gear. I would only need 5 more amps and I could quickly buy or farm those.

@Kambien quote:

I really like your idea. Even if the C8 item is required to be maxed. I think it’s taken for granted that not everyone can or does crush floor 225+. 

Technically, you don't need to even go that far, best way to get amps if farm either 80-83 back to back or 85-88 depending on how much you wanted max chance on amps.

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i Definitely think it would be way too easy to reset while keeping c8 gear, but its a really hard hit to my motivation when i reset after a push and lose x amount of c8 amps its really sad D:, ive done it twice now and probably lost around 12 of them by now. I think having c8 amps not reset but have the gear locked until you hit like floor 80 to keep them out of the reset loop would be a nice middle ground.

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@Debs quote:

i Definitely think it would be way too easy to reset while keeping c8 gear, but its a really hard hit to my motivation when i reset after a push and lose x amount of c8 amps its really sad D:, ive done it twice now and probably lost around 12 of them by now. I think having c8 amps not reset but have the gear locked until you hit like floor 80 to keep them out of the reset loop would be a nice middle ground.

Unique idea but you run into the issue of what if you wanted to use that item for resets using mats to relevel it? Go build a second item with the same stuff that you wont level to c8 so you can use it for resets? Now you have twice as many items in the inventory taking up even more space. I can bet that Trendy isn't going to go out of their way to design a UI around this to fix the problem that really isn't that big of a deal

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Im sure people would prefer to find a relic to use to go from floor x to y which honestly isn't that hard with 80 being the highest, then have to lose a c8 amp which most people seem to really struggle finding. The inventory problem is definitely the main problem with this though your right. I guess another option would be to refund the c8 amps but maybe not the materials spent?


@Exglint quote:


@Debs quote:

i Definitely think it would be way too easy to reset while keeping c8 gear, but its a really hard hit to my motivation when i reset after a push and lose x amount of c8 amps its really sad D:, ive done it twice now and probably lost around 12 of them by now. I think having c8 amps not reset but have the gear locked until you hit like floor 80 to keep them out of the reset loop would be a nice middle ground.

Unique idea but you run into the issue of what if you wanted to use that item for resets using mats to relevel it? Go build a second item with the same stuff that you wont level to c8 so you can use it for resets? Now you have twice as many items in the inventory taking up even more space. I can bet that Trendy isn't going to go out of their way to design a UI around this to fix the problem that really isn't that big of a deal


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@Exglint quote:

Technically, you don't need to even go that far, best way to get amps if farm either 80-83 back to back or 85-88 depending on how much you wanted max chance on amps.

I am one of those holding on to my C8 amps.  Not wasting them until AP is fixed/updated.

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