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hajum023

The inbalance of anti-mods vs. other damage mods

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This subject is already well known to many, however I wanted to discuss it anyways to raise some attention about it and also to give my opinion on how to move forward. This is directed at endgame c7 builds, but c8 would only exaggerate the problem.

The problem

Assume you have a c7 relic with all 10/10 mods and using destruction, deadly strikes and defense rate - all gilded. With anti-mods the final damage number would follow this formula: (I did not use pylon or ad, but it would only further the differences)

atk_dmg x (1 + crit_dmg x crit_chance) x 1.56^3 (anti-mods 1, 2 and 3) x 1. 42 (gilded destruction) ( x destructive pylon x ancient destruction )

With the 3 x diverse crits and regular crit chance servo (no uniques cause i wouldnt use those for a general setup), also taking in +19.5% crit_cmg from a boost aura and the ancient powers of two players granting +20% crit_dmg and +10% crit_chance, the formula would be the same only no 1.56^3.

What this truly means is that your damage would no longer be increased by 520% [ (1+0.15) x 1.56^3 x 1.42 ] ( 297% with two antis ), but rather by 230% [ (1+1.3) x 1.42 ] (bout 160% without ap and boost aura). Flat damage increases with diverse power servo x 3, power servo and damage buff servo which increases atk_dmg by 72%, meaning the bonus would end up at 140% [ 1.47 x (1+0.15) x 1.42 ]. They are still a significant bonus when doing lower difficulty onslaught and c7, but requires more work to build and is way less rewarding, while flat mods also lose some of that bonus as defense power from ascencion comes into play (from 140% to 120%) and also when for example boost aura dp comes into play. The upside is that both applies to all enemies, but if you're like me and uses mostly auras and nodes, you would know that anti-melee, anti-orc and anti-frosty / anti-chaos will apply to most of the enemies you actually fear ( at the very least two of the antis ).

Solution??

  • Three antis = most inconsistent = most damage
  • Three crit mods + ap + boost aura = more consistent, but have higher requirements than anti-mods = more dmg than two antis which is also an indirect incentive to do at least a few resets
  • Three crit mods (no ap, no boost) = more consistent and as easy as getting two anti-mods = just a little less damage than two anti-mods since meeting the requirements of two antis is not that hard
  • Flat stats = scales badly with dp from boosts and ascencion = make it % based and probably on par with what you would get out of just three crit mods (no ap, no boost)

Conclusion

Stop giving barb all the attention and plz do something the other heroes (except gw) can benefit from. Make the strategy aspect of what to put on my relics a matter of how I want to build them and not which anti-mods I should put on them.

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That's way too much math for me. I gave up games long ago that required me to do that much thinking/theory crafting. 

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@Rentard quote:

That's way too much math for me. I gave up games long ago that required me to do that much thinking/theory crafting. 

Did you read the "solution??" and "conclusion" ? Sums up the main take of this post, the maths was more for those who were interested and wanted to see for themselves.

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I thought you were talking about towers, but then you were talking about heroes in the conclusion. Kinda confusing. 


I'm also confused what the problem is. Do you have a tl:dr of the problem?


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Of course I did, but your conclusion requires me to understand your logic in order for me to agree with you, which requires me to read you analysis, which is way too much over-thinking/min-maxing/theory crafting for this game. 

If you want to focus on your conclusion ONLY, then I would say you've missed the point of the mods entirely. Play how you want, not the way that is going to squeeze out every ounce of stats. 

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I would love it if all heroes could equip something in the secondary hand slot that allowed them to equip 3 more MODs, to expand our weapon MOD choices, so that Barb is not the only hero with that option. Something like a Bracer piece of gear. 

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@BeerGoggles quote:

I thought you were talking about towers, but then you were talking about heroes in the conclusion. Kinda confusing. 


I'm also confused what the problem is. Do you have a tl:dr of the problem?


I am talking about towers, the barb stuff was just stupid memeing on my part. 

TL;DR

There is too much of a gap between anti-mods and other damage increasing mods to make them feel good to me when I use them. Not sure everyone feels the same way, but maths and min-maxing is an aspect I really enjoy in games.

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@Rentard quote:

If you want to focus on your conclusion ONLY, then I would say you've missed the point of the mods entirely. Play how you want, not the way that is going to squeeze out every ounce of stats. 

Min-maxing is just how I like to play. Just wanted to shed some light on the massive differenses when it comes to power. 

Note: This isnt even just min-maxing, playing with anti-mods is basically a requirement to push high onslaught, if not for the leaderboards, just to push your ascencion to the point where you can more easily make use of your talent caps. This system limits how you progress though an entire game-mode

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Awesome to think Crit is still awesome. I started using some of my gilded Crit shards and my cannons were doing crazy damage with just some crappy tier 1/10 mods

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@Lagmonster quote:

Lost me at except Gunwitch I'm still waiting for the books to be fixed. They've been broken for quite some time now

"(except GW)" was only bc the change is for relics and has nothing to do with either GW or barb as they have no defenses

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This doesn't take into account mob types, modifiers, and the defence-specific mods.

But, the general premise of showing love to heroes other than Barbarian and Monk would be nice *cough flamethrower range cough*

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

This doesn't take into account mob types, modifiers, and the defence-specific mods.

I didnt want the thread to get too long, I thought this was a fine length so I left a few things out like the defense specific mods and boom-mods. The mob types however I did touch onto regarding how easy it was to stack certain antis against orc enemies and assuming the modifiers you mention are the onslaught ones, that really has little relevance to this thread.

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