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Chinese Grow

My honest opinion

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First off i love the game and was a huge fan of the 1st (HD re-release please). Second im an xbone player and read the forum alot but have never posted anything. While i do like this game alot there are quite a few thing's i wanted to throw on the table. I never messed with ancient power until i could gild shards and upgrade my "good" gear again from campaign level, however gotta say the whole forced push aspect now implemented kinda makes no sense since the other side of the coin was left untouched. Start at floor 36+ (chaos 7+ ish) but your gear goes to campaign level everytime? Even given the fact that players who reset before were only required to reach the same floor over and over. This brings us to materials that we need to upgrade relics and armor, more specifically i mean green motes and c1 and c2 amps. Forcing people to play content irrelevant to where they are in the game which is literally an afk fest. something ive seen claimed by devs on here that your trying to stop players from doing. Furthermore on the subject i read a post where someone called the mats vault a scam. I dont beleive that anyway, but what is kinda shady is selling the obviously drip fed green mats 99 motes and 5 c1 and c2 amps for 30 bucks. know you gotta make money somewhere but that is something i wont pay for.  Seen it claimed that all shards have equal drop rates. Any person with a single brain cell can see that is blatantly not true. Hows a new player going to stick around when they cant even get the shards needed to make a defense function properly or even decently? chaos 8 amps and gear. The material needed to get something to c8 is utterly ridiculous and that doesnt even include amps. ive reset 17 times and have seen 3 btw. Its incredibly unrealistic to ask that much for something that isnt immune to resets. 2 mil gold and 10 copies do it for shards but a ridiculous amount more than that doesnt cover your gear? Material requirements is your problem to work out im just pointing out what my eyes see. As far as the way AP resets are currently its alot more work with alot less advantages than those who did it before the "rework" and before c8 shards were deactivated which players on xbone didnt ever have a chance to use or acquire. And lastly boot shards or lack thereof. Jump height, run speed, add double jump, mimick the jumping/flying ability of another hero (id drop quite a bit of cash for that last one, just saying) hero damage in an aoe instead of just ability power. Like the game but the reset thing needs some serious thought. campaign level everytime is pretty rough.

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Nice input , what would you think of making ap reset harder, but making you keep your gear ? 

But I guess  that would kill the mats market

I just know that noone likes to farm plain motes 

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Currently i think that with the being forced to push higher everytime it is harder than it used to be when 65 was the goal everytime. With omega waves a new concrete wall i feel like being reset to campaign level and not gradually moving up per reset (like the floors) is something overlooked about the AP rework. hate that losing maps is more efficient for farming motes than the prospect of just farming them. But still they are just green mats. The fact they are in the cash shop and drop less than "higher rarity" mats blows the "market" out of proportion. 

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@Chinese Grow quote:

As far as the way AP resets are currently its alot more work with alot less advantages than those who did it before the "rework" and before c8 shards were deactivated which players on xbone didnt ever have a chance to use or acquire.

Would you like some c8 shards? I can talk to some devs for you and get you 5 of each one. They do nothing, you cant use them and you can't sell them, they just take up inventory (without stacking) from being used for anything else :) Fun times having no inventory for anything.

Though Tbh, as far as the climbing and doing AP, it is a hell of a lot easier now than it used to be. 1 map means just reroll until you get what you want, each floor gives you 3 times as much min asc/talent caps as it used to, and you can replay from wave now if you make a small mistake.

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No need to talk down to people. Im aware they don't t work (as stated in the quote you selected) and very aware of how shards and inventory work fyi. But they did work at one point and wouldnt need to be "deactivated to level the playing field" if no advantages were within them. Main point of that statement.

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When they did work they gave little advantage and Onslaught was way different, back then players struggled to get to the old 114 for the final form flair which is now at 45 and players are easily getting to it. I don't think anyone is losing much by not having them. Now those that did have them are being punished for not getting rid of them.

(Just reread my posts and they sounded kind of like an attack, I don't mean it that way)

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Its how you decided to pick out the least mentioned thing in the entire post in a completely non-constructive manner. Never said it was an attack. But it was what it was. Im not upset. You have any actual input on the subject?

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@Exglint quote:

When they did work they gave little advantage and Onslaught was way different, back then players struggled to get to the old 114 for the final form flair which is now at 45 and players are easily getting to it. I don't think anyone is losing much by not having them. Now those that did have them are being punished for not getting rid of them.

(Just reread my posts and they sounded kind of like an attack, I don't mean it that way)

The problem is floors are not comparable in that way.  3 floors map and no replay were annoying and still Resets were way easier before if you knew what you were doing. The problem with the new system is after ap 31, doing from 50 to 80 takes an enormous amount of time. Can you image having to do the old floor 160 skill wise during resets? As you said people were struggling with full gear at 114. And all the mats required weren't even a thing since no mods existed, it was really ez mode. The introduction of mods changed nothing for resets since one medallion is 2m of upgrade cost, so at best you can have ONE decent tower..

Clearly the leaderboards for AP resets speaks loudly about this, people that don't even play the game anymore are still top 10 lmao

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Its hard for me to comment on that Giux, because I would have literally zero issue doing as many resets as I want because I have all the shards I need, all the mods I need and could easily handle floor 80. I am very well prepared for and Onslaught push or an AP push because I'm a much older player.

Perhaps that is the difference, players don't want to take the time to prepare for the long grind they just want it to be over and have all it all now.

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@Exglint quote:

Its hard for me to comment on that Giux, because I would have literally zero issue doing as many resets as I want because I have all the shards I need, all the mods I need and could easily handle floor 80. I am very well prepared for and Onslaught push or an AP push because I'm a much older player.

Perhaps that is the difference, players don't want to take the time to prepare for the long grind they just want it to be over and have all it all now.

That's not the point tho, just because you are ready to spend 3k hours resetting doesn't make it fair that other people were reaching the same goal with 1/3 the time. It's literally impossible as of now to reach as high as some people have with the same time commitment.

I feel this is a bad design choice that will probably make everyone leave at some point. It's the classic, too bad you weren't around when things were ezpz

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@giux quote:


@Exglint quote:

When they did work they gave little advantage and Onslaught was way different, back then players struggled to get to the old 114 for the final form flair which is now at 45 and players are easily getting to it. I don't think anyone is losing much by not having them. Now those that did have them are being punished for not getting rid of them.

(Just reread my posts and they sounded kind of like an attack, I don't mean it that way)

The problem is floors are not comparable in that way.  3 floors map and no replay were annoying and still Resets were way easier before if you knew what you were doing. The problem with the new system is after ap 31, doing from 50 to 80 takes an enormous amount of time. Can you image having to do the old floor 160 skill wise during resets? As you said people were struggling with full gear at 114. And all the mats required weren't even a thing since no mods existed, it was really ez mode. The introduction of mods changed nothing for resets since one medallion is 2m of upgrade cost, so at best you can have ONE decent tower..

Clearly the leaderboards for AP resets speaks loudly about this, people that don't even play the game anymore are still top 10 lmao

As you said the thing with the resets is time. The introduction of mods changed a lot for resets as there is more power in mods now that there ever was before (look at mastery).


@Exglint quote:

Perhaps that is the difference, players don't want to take the time to prepare for the long grind they just want it to be over and have all it all now.

That's it! You hit the nail on the head. I remember trying my hardest to do as much resets as possible before the upgrade because I felt that the resets were going to be harder. Many people on the top half said that they were burnt out. It takes time to reset and no one is rushing to reset a whole bunch of times. However, give it time, that AP reset list is constantly changing  outside of the top and it's only a matter of time before those taking the nice and easy route start moving up. The biggest question will be will they want to spend the time trying to make the top. Lot's of games out there.

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Maybe farming lower chaos shards and motes with the possibility to manually increase difficulty would be really fun:

i. e. C3 + a button to increase enemy power level? 

Level 1 (adds bosses to every lane and double enemy damage/health) = one more shard of this tier and one more mote success

...

level 3 (insane nightmare, several bosses each lane, 6x enemy damage /health) = 3more shards n motes

this would be fine to new players farming gear the same as for endgame players, maybe with more levels.... 

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Im all for anything im not falling alseep doing. I only play 1 round of each chaos for the free gold each reset. I find expeditions to be boring. Onlsaught is the only real engaging thing in this game for me right now. I want to be able to play it without stunting myself for not wanting to farm something i could stomp with no relics.

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I  get 2 to 3 requests a day to help someone on Floor 29 it seems to to be the magic number and almost every person is 8200 Champ score and 100-300 Asc and only have a WM and can't clear a c7 map but someone told them that's all they need to get to floor 80.

Sounds vaguely familiar when everyone was on the Dryad bandwagon. Everyone is all about fast food and 30 minute app games.

@Exglint quote:

Its hard for me to comment on that Giux, because I would have literally zero issue doing as many resets as I want because I have all the shards I need, all the mods I need and could easily handle floor 80. I am very well prepared for and Onslaught push or an AP push because I'm a much older player.

Perhaps that is the difference, players don't want to take the time to prepare for the long grind they just want it to be over and have all it all now.


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People just don’t know how to build in Onslaught , it’s a learning process and takes time IMO.  I see players all the time wanting to learn, yes some want to be carried and we can’t put up with players that are lazy. I won’t carry but I’ll gladly help people wanting to play. 

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Seems almost everyone commenting in here is not even on the AP leaderboard nevermind doing AP resets that go from 50 to 80.  I did up to AP 19 with the old system and am now AP33.  The new system is much quicker for those doing the early resets.  Once you hit AP 25 or so it takes 4 times as long as it did on the old system.  I don't think you'll see anyone pushing the AP leaderboards with this new system as it is just too time consuming. 

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@Faking quote:

Seems almost everyone commenting in here is not even on the AP leaderboard

Since I fit that category, to what point is there for me to continue past AP 13? I have max talent caps and with 13 points I have the "Good" Ancient Powers, the xp and gold bonus aren't something to push resets for since you passively get that for just playing. Not only that but shorten the game leaving you with less to do eventually. In order to make people push out more resets you have to give them actual rewards, and since we don't have those there is no purpose in killing yourself over this.

The best part is, if you know how the system works then you don't need to get very high with 4 low AP players you can max out the desired Ancient Powers very easily. Since it isn't point based but bonus based, you can put in 1 or 2 points into the good ones and max out the bonus faster, adding to the reason to not go as far into the AP system as you can. For example, if 4 players had 1 point in Defense Power, that is 4% per person and totals 16%, where the max is 20%. Now just 2 of those players needs a second point adding 2% each and that's 20%. They just maxed one bonus with two players having 1 AP and two having 2 AP.

My suggestion is, if they want the AP system to be used more heavily, then double the bonuses you get again and make them not stack with anyone. The last time they doubled them and made it max out easier killed any reason to go too far into the system.

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So i have a unique take on resetting. I just hit my 30th reset, on my way to 51. I push and reset with a buddy so we have double the ap points, and i gotta say, Its wonderful. We push floors for the reset a few hours each night, we make sure we r both c7 rdy b4 the end of a session. Going from reset 10 and up hasn't been a complaint yet tbh. Yea 30 floors per reset is kinda slow, about one reset every 4 days, but its goin smooth as butter. now is 51 resets worth? nope, not at all, id say 15 resets with max TC is the most anybody needs to reset for the high onslaught floors, thats 5 points in AP des, crit chance and dmg, those are rly the best bonuses in the list, with a runnerup being lifesteal. As far as mats go, because i am workin with a buddy, thats 2x the drops, he does WM, and i do lsa or sgt, and its all sorted out. we get 2 times the number of defenses upgraded per reset, because we specialize. Also making money from resetting helps to, tyty gilding. i think the reset process isnt bad, but you NEED to be prepared: get a buddy, gild a crapload of shards (if my crap rng can have alot of gilds, so can you) get a stupid high minimum ascension and find a buddy to reset with you, its ez to get plenty of resets in a reasonable time. srly tho, find a reset partner, it changes everything! If the only thing you take from this is "find a buddy" i did my job right. 

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Honestly, if I wasn't focused on resetting I probably wouldn't be playing anymore. I play the game to relax after a hard day's work and have no intent on grinding the highest floor possible. I'm just looking for the right level of variable difficulty..not too easy but not too hard..I'm a casual player. Reset provides me with some type of decision making challenge ever single time (What's the most efficient way to put everything back together mixed in with a little RNG).

I used to play way more than I do now, and if I am not trying to focus on a reset every other day it's quite pleasurable. If I play 6 days a week and rest on Sunday, that's an easy reset every week :)

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@Chinese Grow quote:

Seen it claimed that all shards have equal drop rates. Any person with a single brain cell can see that is blatantly not true. Hows a new player going to stick around when they cant even get the shards needed to make a defense function properly or even decently? 

While shard farming is probably my biggest issue with the game right now (since I'm still stuck in it), I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. Shard drops suck when you're looking to get only one shard out of 25+ available in a chaos tier, but that doesn't mean they're burying your chance of getting that defense rate shard. It just means you're having bad luck and the dice rolls behind the scenes aren't going in your favor. 

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It's not even remotely obvious. 

To use a defense rate shard as an example, you have a one in 33 chance of getting a shard. If every shard has the same chance of dropping, then you have an around 3.03% chance of getting a defense rate shard, or any other shard. 

According to this handy dandy online drop chance calculator (https://dropchance.guru/?percent=3), it'd statistically take ~151 attempts to approach a 99% chance to get something with a 3% chance to drop, or ~76 attempts to approach a 90% chance.

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@PHPH quote:

It's not even remotely obvious. 

To use a defense rate shard as an example, you have a one in 33 chance of getting a shard. If every shard has the same chance of dropping, then you have an around 3.03% chance of getting a defense rate shard, or any other shard. 

According to this handy dandy online drop chance calculator (https://dropchance.guru/?percent=3), it'd statistically take ~151 attempts to approach a 99% chance to get something with a 3% chance to drop, or ~76 attempts to approach a 90% chance.

Rng doesn’t work like this though, the % chance to get said shard would always remain at 3.03% each time. Completing more games doesn’t cause the % chance to raise whatsoever, what it does do is give you more  chances for that 3.03% rarity however. That calculator will never give you an accurate estimate of when the shard will drop, because it can’t really correctly predict that.

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@Zombiewookie quote:

Nice input , what would you think of making ap reset harder, but making you keep your gear ? 

But I guess  that would kill the mats market

I just know that noone likes to farm plain motes 

Being one of those who will buy almost all materials off people's stores, there really is no mats market.  People have begun using them or hoarding them likemyself.  I am online quite often, even to just check markets for 15 minutes.  People are not selling mats like they used to.

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