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Haven

Balance Changes

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@MaJean quote:


@Haven quote:



On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I actually started writing a long answer to this post, which I think is way out of line, for someone that has not even been a part of this forum for long, but I deleted that rant. 

There are just so many things wrong with your post, I wouldn´t know where to start. I really don´t want to be in a negative state right now, so I´ll just leave it at that. 

We have respect for the hard working guys at Trendy in here. We want them to keep up the good work. They listen to everybody, even the smallest fish, yes - even you. So please be respectful. Critique them all you want in a respectful manner, they encourage us to do just that, but never say they don´t listen.

This update has only been out a couple of days, they are gathering data and if changes are needed, I´m sure we can expect changes to be made.

I'd agree with you if this hasn't been a thing for years. It's just pathetic at this point and if you don't think that's the case you're either not playing the game or just nodding your head to whatever they post. I've played dd1 since it was out on the xbox360, People like you are why they can still get away with this garbage all of the time, If you'd like to have a conversation about it you can msg me on discord. Even though I already explained each individual change I'd love to see someone that's a fan of the balance changes of this patch try and tell me why it's a good change, hasn't happened with many and I doubt it'll happen anytime soon.

Haven#1279

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@Haven quote:
On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I'd ask you to really reconsider what you're saying here. I try to be as active on all of our social platforms answering as many questions as possible and addressing any feedback that warrants it. You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


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@LAWLTA quote:

You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.


I figured when I typed something directly saying it's funny how on recent threads this was the only thing that seen replies from official trendy members; it would get a response, i'm glad it worked out that way. Unhealthy or not the 2 large threads that got a good amount of attention compared to any other threads i seen as of recent; had a lot of constructive criticism or recommendations. Mean or nice my points remain pretty much identical. I'd like to note before I continue this any further though, every problem I have and many others have with the game besides obvious stuff like bugs; is balancing. Art, QoL etc I've yet to see a problem over the near decade of playing outside of anything that isn't balance related. 


@LAWLTA quote:

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


Now where I have a problem with this or where this begins to make anyone mad is; there's been balance problems with this game since I can remember to be quite honest. If patches were reverted in times of bad balance I'd be a bit more persuaded to believe this. I never thought Trendy was evil, I just think they're clueless in terms of balancing the game. to reply to the point of me enjoying it well, I'm not sure who's going to enjoy it when pretty much everything got nerfed/axed and anything that got buffed doesn't change *anything* I'd repeat myself as to why it doesn't change anything but you can just read the original thread if you haven't already. I've already made a decent amount of recommendations to the game as a whole in the past as well as some other people. The disconnect is where even if you're reading these recommendations no reply is just as good as not reading at all to be quite honest, especially when nothing has changed in prior years with reverts. I'm not asking for a hotfix, I don't think I care if it happens in the next year; but what you have to understand is from a perspective of a person who put in 100s of hours into this game and 1000s into dd1(a pve game at that) getting weaker and taking towers out of the game every patch doesn't make anyone want to play the game more than they did in the previous patch. Every time a tower gets buffed, like a good buff that makes it meta it just gets cut in half in the next patch only this time unlike the dryad getting destroyed with multiple bees on 1 target change, ALL forms of cc got hit because of Weapon manufacturers and previous content that could be completed before the patch no longer can. In the patch notes it said something along the lines of trendy wanted to replace cc with barricades (which if barricades are viable it's just cc anyways.) Barricades didn't replace anything and it was just yet another patch where more stuff is removed with nothing to replace. 

I could sit down with whoever is in charge of balance(or balance team itself) and talk to them for hours about ideas and why stuff isn't used. Hell, I'd write an entire description on why every tower in the game is or isn't used and go through and tell you what I'd change with the tower to make it a viable option in high onslaught. This would take me quite some time to make, I doubt if I spent that much time on this it would be considered or seen at allin game and given the past any tower that becomes popular or meta just gets axed in the next update anyway and I don't have a good reason to believe otherwise. 

I appreciate the reply though, apologies if I sound rude but hopefully after reading this you can understand why myself as well as others are upset with the game.

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@Eventualcrowd16PC quote:

It's a good conversation so you are not rambling. Let me give you my perspective. I think Gilding does help in the ancient power loop, but not from the point of view of more power but from the point of view of budget allocation. For instance, why would I spend 2M gilding a speed shard when to get it to the max cost less than 25 defender medals. On the other hand, I'm more than happy to gild something I use that cost more than 200+ defender medals because I am more limited by defender medals than I am on gold. That's 10+ games unless I have an undone weekly/dailies.


AP reset to restrict but I wouldn't say that you can't experiment. I did a lot of my experimenting picking random things up and trying them out. The bad part about it is that I couldn't necessarily put 2 good mods together because one will get lost when I reconfigure. I did do it with lower mods though knowing that once I reset, I could change any configuration for very cheap. While at the C7 level, it only really takes pristine clusters to change things around. 

I'm a lazy builder so I am more interested in using less towers than more but I want to take those towers to the limit to see what makes them work well.

I'm not sure how gilding helps with the shifting because you can still do all those things. However, if the focus is on the speed of your reset and not experimenting then that turns into a different ball-game and you stick with what works. 


I will say my perspective may be a little off because I have forgotten what it is like to not have gold...which was one of the reasons I started on the AP path to begin with. My budget is limited by defender medals, motes, and clusters...this changes how much playing around I can do.

Well I would say it's whole reset run that's restricting as I want to try a build that I've heard from the community but I'll have to pretty much put it on hold as I'm focused on reset runs. Which then I'll eventually forget about it which is a shame.

Of course we all want to reset efficiently and that's why we use less tower and cut cost there. But I feel with that, it takes the fun out of tower defense as we're restricted to budget and the most efficient as the result of being reset instead of being able to freely use what we have acquired.

Sorry for the late reply, got things going on so I was struggling to think of something to reply. I hope this is something adequate :)

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Eventualcrowd16PC quote:

It's a good conversation so you are not rambling. Let me give you my perspective. I think Gilding does help in the ancient power loop, but not from the point of view of more power but from the point of view of budget allocation. For instance, why would I spend 2M gilding a speed shard when to get it to the max cost less than 25 defender medals. On the other hand, I'm more than happy to gild something I use that cost more than 200+ defender medals because I am more limited by defender medals than I am on gold. That's 10+ games unless I have an undone weekly/dailies.


AP reset to restrict but I wouldn't say that you can't experiment. I did a lot of my experimenting picking random things up and trying them out. The bad part about it is that I couldn't necessarily put 2 good mods together because one will get lost when I reconfigure. I did do it with lower mods though knowing that once I reset, I could change any configuration for very cheap. While at the C7 level, it only really takes pristine clusters to change things around. 

I'm a lazy builder so I am more interested in using less towers than more but I want to take those towers to the limit to see what makes them work well.

I'm not sure how gilding helps with the shifting because you can still do all those things. However, if the focus is on the speed of your reset and not experimenting then that turns into a different ball-game and you stick with what works. 


I will say my perspective may be a little off because I have forgotten what it is like to not have gold...which was one of the reasons I started on the AP path to begin with. My budget is limited by defender medals, motes, and clusters...this changes how much playing around I can do.

Well I would say it's whole reset run that's restricting as I want to try a build that I've heard from the community but I'll have to pretty much put it on hold as I'm focused on reset runs. Which then I'll eventually forget about it which is a shame.

Of course we all want to reset efficiently and that's why we use less tower and cut cost there. But I feel with that, it takes the fun out of tower defense as we're restricted to budget and the most efficient as the result of being reset instead of being able to freely use what we have acquired.

Sorry for the late reply, got things going on so I was struggling to think of something to reply. I hope this is something adequate :)

Oh it's good. I think what it is that DD2 is very multi-dimensional in what it provides. You are right that it might take a little fun out of it and somewhat changes it into a decision making game. Should I put these mods together knowing it could be destroyed, should I run a map for motes to upgrade, or just patch some stuff together?

It's a different focus (perseverance over power), like a long distance runner versus a sprinter. Both of them run, but they enjoy it differently. At the end of the day, I know that when I am ready to climb, I'll have a gold mine of combinations that I have tested with lower ratings that I wouldn't expect to do worse when I bring the big guns out!!! To your point though, it sucks a bit having them sit on the shelf.

I'm not saying improvements shouldn't be made, everyone agrees that something needs to be done. However, recognize that there are at least 5 different things going on - The newbies who need a carry to get through C3 and are really excited about the game. The more experienced who just love watching stuff disappear in C7. A bit more experience that just wants better incursions and game modes and an increased difficulty beyond current C7, the reset leaderboard (why else would anyone want to reset so many times), and those who want to push the highest floor possible and beat floor 998 :) - Game might change before anyone ever reaches 999 

Notice I said at least, sure others can come up with many more. You don't have to rewrite all the code to cater to these groups. You just need to understand who actually plays the game, why, and package what you have correctly and then add from that new base.

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@LAWLTA quote:


@Haven quote:
On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I'd ask you to really reconsider what you're saying here. I try to be as active on all of our social platforms answering as many questions as possible and addressing any feedback that warrants it. You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


In my opinion, this game has changed a ton and I have loved every second of these last updates. As compared to the OG days of lack of content, characters, variety and overall lack of interest in the play style of the game but still hanging in there, it has been worth it. The pay off of patiently waiting has pushed this game to the top of my list for sure, this is where it should be because this has always been one of my favorite games, due to art style, game play, the fact its a RTS tower defense, but also has the active play style you don't get from some tower defense games. By far my only gripe is that you guys haven't made another hero in the last few months or have had an announcement about a tower only hero! ;) I think the game is going in the right direction and am loving all the new content. The trap changes were huge for me personally due to them honestly not having that same luster as DD1 traps had, now I feel like they are back there again with the same style of mechanics. I plan on spamming the hell out of them when I finally can get my tier 10 tenacity servo! Other than that though the elemental combos make the game much more enjoyable and you have to find a good combo to make them work. Every tower I've used recently while playing again has been very, very viable and that has made me so happy again. I can find myself building a variety of 4-5 different defenses per lane all used for different purposes thanks to the servos. Like building an aura specifically for frost mobs, or another tower as a boss killer. It's so amazing to see such variety now. Hopefully you see this and fulfill the request that I know a lot of players have had of making a tower only hero to balance out the DPS only heroes that are already in the game. Like the summoner from DD1.


Til then keep up the good work.

Myth

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@TMyth quote:


@LAWLTA quote:


@Haven quote:
On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I'd ask you to really reconsider what you're saying here. I try to be as active on all of our social platforms answering as many questions as possible and addressing any feedback that warrants it. You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


In my opinion, this game has changed a ton and I have loved every second of these last updates. As compared to the OG days of lack of content, characters, variety and overall lack of interest in the play style of the game but still hanging in there, it has been worth it. The pay off of patiently waiting has pushed this game to the top of my list for sure, this is where it should be because this has always been one of my favorite games, due to art style, game play, the fact its a RTS tower defense, but also has the active play style you don't get from some tower defense games. By far my only gripe is that you guys haven't made another hero in the last few months or have had an announcement about a tower only hero! ;) I think the game is going in the right direction and am loving all the new content. The trap changes were huge for me personally due to them honestly not having that same luster as DD1 traps had, now I feel like they are back there again with the same style of mechanics. I plan on spamming the hell out of them when I finally can get my tier 10 tenacity servo! Other than that though the elemental combos make the game much more enjoyable and you have to find a good combo to make them work. Every tower I've used recently while playing again has been very, very viable and that has made me so happy again. I can find myself building a variety of 4-5 different defenses per lane all used for different purposes thanks to the servos. Like building an aura specifically for frost mobs, or another tower as a boss killer. It's so amazing to see such variety now. Hopefully you see this and fulfill the request that I know a lot of players have had of making a tower only hero to balance out the DPS only heroes that are already in the game. Like the summoner from DD1.


Til then keep up the good work.

Myth

Hate to rain on your parade but I can tell you don't have a lot of time in the game or you're not very far in onslaught because you wouldn't say every tower you used is viable. Unless you got very lucky with the ones you picked and you didn't pick very many than it's just simply not true. I get this is the ***ride trendy thread even though it's the exact opposite I was trying to point out flaws with the game but opinions like this don't help at all, especially when it's just not true. Thanks anyways I guess.

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@Haven quote:


@TMyth quote:


@LAWLTA quote:


@Haven quote:
On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I'd ask you to really reconsider what you're saying here. I try to be as active on all of our social platforms answering as many questions as possible and addressing any feedback that warrants it. You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


In my opinion, this game has changed a ton and I have loved every second of these last updates. As compared to the OG days of lack of content, characters, variety and overall lack of interest in the play style of the game but still hanging in there, it has been worth it. The pay off of patiently waiting has pushed this game to the top of my list for sure, this is where it should be because this has always been one of my favorite games, due to art style, game play, the fact its a RTS tower defense, but also has the active play style you don't get from some tower defense games. By far my only gripe is that you guys haven't made another hero in the last few months or have had an announcement about a tower only hero! ;) I think the game is going in the right direction and am loving all the new content. The trap changes were huge for me personally due to them honestly not having that same luster as DD1 traps had, now I feel like they are back there again with the same style of mechanics. I plan on spamming the hell out of them when I finally can get my tier 10 tenacity servo! Other than that though the elemental combos make the game much more enjoyable and you have to find a good combo to make them work. Every tower I've used recently while playing again has been very, very viable and that has made me so happy again. I can find myself building a variety of 4-5 different defenses per lane all used for different purposes thanks to the servos. Like building an aura specifically for frost mobs, or another tower as a boss killer. It's so amazing to see such variety now. Hopefully you see this and fulfill the request that I know a lot of players have had of making a tower only hero to balance out the DPS only heroes that are already in the game. Like the summoner from DD1.


Til then keep up the good work.

Myth

Hate to rain on your parade but I can tell you don't have a lot of time in the game or you're not very far in onslaught because you wouldn't say every tower you used is viable. Unless you got very lucky with the ones you picked and you didn't pick very many than it's just simply not true. I get this is the ***ride trendy thread even though it's the exact opposite I was trying to point out flaws with the game but opinions like this don't help at all, especially when it's just not true. Thanks anyways I guess.

To start out, I’ve used a lot of towers and I’m on floor 115, I started at floor 30 and I got there in 5 days, so yes most every tower is viable with a correct setup and strategy for them. So instead of attacking my opinion maybe you should try to use something outside the meta. When this game was in the original days there was t much that was useful. Coming from what you just said I’m gonna assume you’re probably somewhere in the 400s. Cause if you’re not you need to reform your statement.

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@TMyth quote:


@Haven quote:


@TMyth quote:


@LAWLTA quote:


@Haven quote:
On floor 79 (omega) I went from being able to use a combo of 2-3 defenses each lane and afk; to having to retry a few times running back and forth because cc doesn't do anything. I wish Trendy would listen, reply or discuss with anyone that isn't a yes-man. If this were any other game the forums would be absolutely flooded with posts about how the balancing needs to change but most of them have left years ago and got tired of getting ignored. Pretty sad see them only reply to Juice bags, someone trying to buy DLC or anyone else that nods their head to this bs we got. I hope this game will be community ran like dd1 so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I'd ask you to really reconsider what you're saying here. I try to be as active on all of our social platforms answering as many questions as possible and addressing any feedback that warrants it. You can see my post history and who I respond to, which is pretty much everyone that raises a concern in a constructive way (some people posting for the first time on the forums, or having very few posts at all). Taking an approach of (this is paraphrased) "they won't listen to me, I'm not Juicebags, dumb garbage changes", you probably won't be met with a lot of openness and communication. We'll investigate the pain point that you're conveying, but it's not healthy for the community and us to approach and encourage that kind of feedback process.

We are reactive to the needs and wants of our entire community, and we take all the feedback we get very seriously. However, the community is a large group, and just because we make a change or add something that you don't necessarily enjoy, doesn't mean others don't. We're not a group of evil people looking to make people suffer, we want the game to remain healthy and for players to have fun with what we make. We have the humility to admit that we may not get it right the first time, but give us constructive feedback, and we'll try our hardest to get things into the most enjoyable state possible.


In my opinion, this game has changed a ton and I have loved every second of these last updates. As compared to the OG days of lack of content, characters, variety and overall lack of interest in the play style of the game but still hanging in there, it has been worth it. The pay off of patiently waiting has pushed this game to the top of my list for sure, this is where it should be because this has always been one of my favorite games, due to art style, game play, the fact its a RTS tower defense, but also has the active play style you don't get from some tower defense games. By far my only gripe is that you guys haven't made another hero in the last few months or have had an announcement about a tower only hero! ;) I think the game is going in the right direction and am loving all the new content. The trap changes were huge for me personally due to them honestly not having that same luster as DD1 traps had, now I feel like they are back there again with the same style of mechanics. I plan on spamming the hell out of them when I finally can get my tier 10 tenacity servo! Other than that though the elemental combos make the game much more enjoyable and you have to find a good combo to make them work. Every tower I've used recently while playing again has been very, very viable and that has made me so happy again. I can find myself building a variety of 4-5 different defenses per lane all used for different purposes thanks to the servos. Like building an aura specifically for frost mobs, or another tower as a boss killer. It's so amazing to see such variety now. Hopefully you see this and fulfill the request that I know a lot of players have had of making a tower only hero to balance out the DPS only heroes that are already in the game. Like the summoner from DD1.


Til then keep up the good work.

Myth

Hate to rain on your parade but I can tell you don't have a lot of time in the game or you're not very far in onslaught because you wouldn't say every tower you used is viable. Unless you got very lucky with the ones you picked and you didn't pick very many than it's just simply not true. I get this is the ***ride trendy thread even though it's the exact opposite I was trying to point out flaws with the game but opinions like this don't help at all, especially when it's just not true. Thanks anyways I guess.

To start out, I’ve used a lot of towers and I’m on floor 115, I started at floor 30 and I got there in 5 days, so yes most every tower is viable with a correct setup and strategy for them. So instead of attacking my opinion maybe you should try to use something outside the meta. When this game was in the original days there was t much that was useful. Coming from what you just said I’m gonna assume you’re probably somewhere in the 400s. Cause if you’re not you need to reform your statement.

There's towers that are just superior versions of others making the others irrelevant (some terrible on their own). You don't need to be rank 1 to notice these things. Given you can use C7 medallions to 250+ Try water geysers, skeletal archers, blaze balloons and compare these to weapon manufacturers, PDTs and flame auras. It's night and day and the first defenses mentioned will no longer be usable/viable after a certain point in comparison to others. My statement remains the same and the game has a lot of problems around balance which is likely to not change given the history of it.

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@Eventualcrowd16PC quote:

Oh it's good. I think what it is that DD2 is very multi-dimensional in what it provides. You are right that it might take a little fun out of it and somewhat changes it into a decision making game. Should I put these mods together knowing it could be destroyed, should I run a map for motes to upgrade, or just patch some stuff together?

It's a different focus (perseverance over power), like a long distance runner versus a sprinter. Both of them run, but they enjoy it differently. At the end of the day, I know that when I am ready to climb, I'll have a gold mine of combinations that I have tested with lower ratings that I wouldn't expect to do worse when I bring the big guns out!!! To your point though, it sucks a bit having them sit on the shelf.

I'm not saying improvements shouldn't be made, everyone agrees that something needs to be done. However, recognize that there are at least 5 different things going on - The newbies who need a carry to get through C3 and are really excited about the game. The more experienced who just love watching stuff disappear in C7. A bit more experience that just wants better incursions and game modes and an increased difficulty beyond current C7, the reset leaderboard (why else would anyone want to reset so many times), and those who want to push the highest floor possible and beat floor 998 :) - Game might change before anyone ever reaches 999 

Notice I said at least, sure others can come up with many more. You don't have to rewrite all the code to cater to these groups. You just need to understand who actually plays the game, why, and package what you have correctly and then add from that new base.

Yeah I would agree that you do have a good point there in there's multiple types of groups and of course we can't cater to fit them all perfectly. I guess I would just like the whole system to not have that much of restrictions (and I've already did suggested a solution) so it can be more accessible to many and also being able to play more freely with the gamemodes which is what resets is currently not doing.

Hahaha, on the other hand, it's funny that possibly this discussion may no longer be much of a big deal as the Drakenfrost incursion became the pressing matter to both of us now. Oh well ;)

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Eventualcrowd16PC quote:

Oh it's good. I think what it is that DD2 is very multi-dimensional in what it provides. You are right that it might take a little fun out of it and somewhat changes it into a decision making game. Should I put these mods together knowing it could be destroyed, should I run a map for motes to upgrade, or just patch some stuff together?

It's a different focus (perseverance over power), like a long distance runner versus a sprinter. Both of them run, but they enjoy it differently. At the end of the day, I know that when I am ready to climb, I'll have a gold mine of combinations that I have tested with lower ratings that I wouldn't expect to do worse when I bring the big guns out!!! To your point though, it sucks a bit having them sit on the shelf.

I'm not saying improvements shouldn't be made, everyone agrees that something needs to be done. However, recognize that there are at least 5 different things going on - The newbies who need a carry to get through C3 and are really excited about the game. The more experienced who just love watching stuff disappear in C7. A bit more experience that just wants better incursions and game modes and an increased difficulty beyond current C7, the reset leaderboard (why else would anyone want to reset so many times), and those who want to push the highest floor possible and beat floor 998 :) - Game might change before anyone ever reaches 999 

Notice I said at least, sure others can come up with many more. You don't have to rewrite all the code to cater to these groups. You just need to understand who actually plays the game, why, and package what you have correctly and then add from that new base.

Yeah I would agree that you do have a good point there in there's multiple types of groups and of course we can't cater to fit them all perfectly. I guess I would just like the whole system to not have that much of restrictions (and I've already did suggested a solution) so it can be more accessible to many and also being able to play more freely with the gamemodes which is what resets is currently not doing.

Hahaha, on the other hand, it's funny that possibly this discussion may no longer be much of a big deal as the Drakenfrost incursion became the pressing matter to both of us now. Oh well ;)

As someone who codes, I think they can fit a number of different groups without making significant changes at all. You kinda hit the nail on the head. I think Trendy might be so focused on creating that "end game" (that level of difficulty that everyone can keep trying to play) that they may not realize that some of us have the ability to keep playing this game for a very long time without the restrictions that are being imposed.


Adding a whole bunch of cool stuff is important...for both the developers and the players..stoke that creativity...just wondering about the whole product management/business aspect....Need to understand the customers, pick the direction, and let us know versus confusing us.

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As someone who codes, I think they can fit a number of different groups without making significant changes at all. You kinda hit the nail on the head. I think Trendy might be so focused on creating that "end game" (that level of difficulty that everyone can keep trying to play) that they may not realize that some of us have the ability to keep playing this game for a very long time without the restrictions that are being imposed.


Adding a whole bunch of cool stuff is important...for both the developers and the players..stoke that creativity...just wondering about the whole product management/business aspect....Need to understand the customers, pick the direction, and let us know versus confusing us.

If their goal was to make money with dungeon defenders / be a popular game, they picked the wrong type of game for that.

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My main concern is that changes seem to be made with how to keep the top tier of players from not being able to afk the content and they introduce changes that have a significant enough impact on maxed out characters and it has a significantly greater impact on players a long way down who haven't had the opportunity to max out gear, ascension, AP with obscene OP defences, like Bees which people abused to hell and back.  It seems the more you try to keep the 1% in check, the greater you beat on those trying to struggle through the content who are a long way back.

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@Vim quote:

My main concern is that changes seem to be made with how to keep the top tier of players from not being able to afk the content and they introduce changes that have a significant enough impact on maxed out characters and it has a significantly greater impact on players a long way down who haven't had the opportunity to max out gear, ascension, AP with obscene OP defences, like Bees which people abused to hell and back.  It seems the more you try to keep the 1% in check, the greater you beat on those trying to struggle through the content who are a long way back.

Fantastic points sir.

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c7 and below can easily be done with any relic you pick up in that same lvl catagory even easier when its maxed and easier again if your pet has tower defence power then add 1 specific mod and you will crush it. well anything but annoying new boss that needs to be set on fire with an oil+ fire attack combo which is annoying fires easy tricky things oil. i've started using oil spill which is a pet skill which you can get with any pet using an earth attack may take a few rerolls that combined with a fire attack say barbs fire ,hunters pierce, burning strikes, lavamancer prity much anything

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