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malf

Make Barriers Great Again

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So, for those of us pushing onslaught, at least at the early and mid-levels (30 through 100 pre AP reset), barriers are almost always a 'bad' choice. The DU invested in them are almost always better used on Utility, DMG, or on a problematic lane.

If we accept that premise, and especially if it holds true for late onslaught too (150-400+), I see two relevant paths:

  1. Barriers are situational (Omega waves / EMP bait).
  2. Barriers are in most (read: non-phased) lanes.

#1 is already feasible, so I won't stress on that, but if we go down path #2, I would love to hear what people think would be their preferred option of enabling this.

My thoughts are:

  • Make all barriers DU free, but only allow N barriers per map (e.g. 1.5 x # of lanes). This could be by a specific counter or by having barrier specific DU.
    [+] Divorces the complexity of barriers from the rest of the dmg/utility defenses.
    [+] Limits spamming of barriers.
    [-] More limits/du sources adds complexity to the game.
    [-] New mechanics can have a higher development cost.
    [-] Doesn't address the 'squishiness' of barriers.

  • Upgrade the HP modifier for barriers (base scaling or variable scaling). Make barrier HP scale based on a TTL (Time To Live) factor for the intended onslaught/mob level. E.g. if mobs hit for 1 million DPS and Barriers should last for 10 sec, then they need to have 10 million HP. This can be achieved by scaling, MODS, Shards, etc.

    This may already work but I haven't been able to take advantage of it.

  • Upgrade/add the damage resistance element to barriers (reduce damage from mobs). This could work in a similar fashion to the ANTI-XXX (Anti-Melee, Anti-Frost) MODS, so that you could customize barriers to be especially resilient towards specific kinds of mobs.

I'm sure there are even more interesting ideas we could discuss.

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Some servo ideas:


+defense health for each unique defense nearby

+defense health for each barricade placed on the map

Restore X% health whenever a nearby defense kills an enemy

+defense health in proximity to the nearest crystal or spawn point


Shard ideas:

Nearby defenses cost 5/10/15 DU less to place (minimum 10 DU). This blockade requires 5/10/15 more DU to place. If this blockade is destroyed or sold all nearby defenses are disabled until the next build wave.


Heroes near this blockade take 10/20/30% less damage.


Nearby defenses cost 10/20/30% less mana to upgrade. If this blockade is sold or destroyed all nearby defenses lose one upgrade level.


Nearby non-blockade defenses take 50/60/70% less damage from kobolds.


Attunes the blockade to earth, causing a magnetic field that pulls in Goblin Siege Roller missiles, and reducing their damage by 70/80/90%.


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Mods for "% damage reduced vs ___" is a cool idea. If i read that right, you'd want to re-purpose the existing "Anti-___ "mods so they deal more and take less damage?

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Assuming that barricades being useless in onslaught isn't intended, couldn't the whole problem be solved by adding a cap to the maximum damage that mobs can deal (with some sort of scaling to account for having better gear in higher onslaught floors)?

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@Xuhybrid quote:

Mods for "% damage reduced vs ___" is a cool idea. If i read that right, you'd want to re-purpose the existing "Anti-___ "mods so they deal more and take less damage?

My original suggestion wasn't fleshed out that far. Mostly just airing the possibility but leaning towards creating dedicated MODS for Damage Reduction. TBH, I prefer your twist of consolidating the functionality into the existing mods. That sounds a lot cooler!

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Ive been using walls mainly on omega waves and lanes im not confident about, Although they dont last a super long time they usually last long enough time to let me get to that lane in time. I actually can solo c7 only using walls and a reflect beam infront of it, but unless you have the hyper shards: automation and explosive shielding guard its hard to do. I like the idea of them having a bit more health scaling especially for the higher floors where bosses 1 shot even decent walls. All i can suggest is the protective downgrade mod, if you get a good one its effectively almost doubling its health its been very useful, theres also a shard for obelisk decreasing dmg taken to nearby towers/walls bye 10% and a dryad tree shard giving a shield to nearbye walls every 20 seconds for 10 seconds which really helps! :)

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I think walls need a little love. i personally don't think the DU cost of anything should be touched as that would completely mess up the balance of the game. Everything else suggested so far i would also love to see implemented in some way. 

Blockaded are meant to block a path, however most times mobs just walk right past (at least for me). so my suggestion is that blockades scale in actual size per upgrade level. so maybe with X upgrades it could actually block a lane.

My Shard/Mod idea would be a taunt on the blockade much like the hero shard "Annoyance". 

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@concrete_fish quote:

My Shard/Mod idea would be a taunt on the blockade much like the hero shard "Annoyance". 

As far as I'm aware, barriers already do that intrinsically. I think they pulse every 0.5s within a set radius. The issue tends to be if the mobs enters and exits the sphere of influence between pulses, or if the number of mobs gets past a certain threshold (and somehow the taunt being capped somewhat similar to the AoE cap), or if the base behavior/global Crystal taunt somehow overrides the local barriers taunt.

I'm guessing here, so I might be completely off-base...

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@malf quote:

snip

If its already a thing would be nice to get it working consistently. I can have a single mob usually a boss/lady orc run/walk by and still completely ignore the wall. this has happened this patch 4.1 with shield boss goblin and a lady orc (she got to the wall, sorta stopped for a sec like she forgot what she was doing, then ran right for the sub objective haha)

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That's a known issue for years now. I.e. ever since lady orcs this has been a 'problem'. I presume sorting out these egregious edge cases are either too difficult to pinpoint, not prioritized enough, or the obvious fixes lead to even more problems. Welcome to software development \o/.

For most of us that have progressed passed the usage of barriers, this has become irrelevant. If barriers become relevant again, I presume this issue will become a more pressing concern.

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the main reasons I would want blockades are lady orcs and minibosses.

but lady orcs will go around the blockades, and minibosses will destroy the blockades in 2 seconds.

so they are actually not doing their purpose at all


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I agree that blockades need some love.  

My wishlist is a mile long. But here are my top two suggestions. I would love to see the arcane barrier get reduced DU; it seems objectively worse than other walls. Also, I think the tree needs to be either a viable wall, or simply a tax on Dryad defenses. If the former, give it the enemy attraction of other walls or maybe a broader base. If it is simply going to be a tax, reduce the DU and make it a trap or aura that blocks nothing and can’t be destroyed.

Since I know the devs have more ideas than time, I’d be more than happy to settle for plain ole increased blockade health.  If scaling across tiers  is a concern, I recommend increasing the amount of defense health that comes from ascension points. This would keep minimal buffs  to players initially progressing through the chaos tiers; and progressively bigger buffs on the high-end, late game floor pushers.  

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I'm not sure how they could improve barriers without overpowering them. I'd sooner see them replaced on the hero build list with offensive towers, and added as already placed elements on maps - kind of like sub-objectives.

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