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Have you stopped due to the crazy amount of time of farming?

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@024noi quote:

To much time spent in tiers where i'm super op and boring as heck to play and yet the only way to progress m y gear and such is to back track and play those lower tiers for days. If all mats were equal and i could farm the tier i should be playing i'ld be happy as a clam to grind away.  Like it was before the introduction of materials. 

I do however luv the systems that came with it. Gilding, mods, advancing gear beyond it's tier. All good stuff. I just don't wanna HAVE to play c3 or c6 to use them. Imo we don't need different tiers of mats. Mote should just be mote, rings should just b rings. Let me play the floors and tiers i wanna play. The only difference between playing 100 c3 maps and 100 c7 maps now that i'm done with AP is fun. C7 and up = fun. C6 and below is boring as watching paint dry.

Not to beat the point to death.Well, yeah let's beat it to death!!! This right here is the problem. I'm glad that Trendy made the change so that I don't have to grind my boring way back to asc 250 with every reset. Now it's time to take the next step. Who wants to be OP and playing lower maps to advance gear? Ok I'm the odd man out for C7 cause I just don't like the same maps over and over again. I'll accept that and can live with it, but farming  motes and mats in C6 or below to advance when you are already at C7 has to go. 

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I intentionally did ap reset today to keep me away from this game. I think because I have some good equipment, I keep trying to push more onslaught floors. But I've realized since that this game is just a punishment for those who really want to progress. Well I can't keep punishing myself all because I want to get some perfect item that never drops or its sold for some ridiculous price to push more onslaught floors. At least when I login now (if i can't resist the urge to play) and see the overwhelming amount of grind I have to do to re-upgrade my items, I have no other option than to logout. 

Its really sad because there's no other game like this one but the devs of this one have decided to punish us with extreme rng on everything.

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I don't understand Trendy's obsession with RNG?? Shards, mods, defender packs, victory chests even floor layout with mutators. Everything in this game has some sort of extrem RNG to it. 

All this RNG with extrem low drop chance on shards, mods etc. makes it really boring and not something a game should have. 

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Can't say the OP is the reason i "quit". And i say quit with quotations cause I do not consider myself as having quit the game. I simply lost the ability to play it for some time due to pc and then net issues and now have a lot of crap on my plate im trying to shift through, with DD2 being there, waiting for me, for when i can get back to it. I'm also kinda waiting for the other 2 alt genders, ESPECIALLY countess >,> lol


That said however, this thread is for thoughts on the grind. I think, personally, the grind for this game has gotten a lot less .... tormenting? Cause now we can have the choice of grinding whatever maps we want, we have ways of getting around Hard-Counters, so we can do what DD is suppose to be for, build how we want, have variety, freedom, to do whatever we want to do, enjoy OUR style, not the 1 meta that works.

The grind is still painful in some regards however, like MODS, those things are just plain horrible to farm for the perfect ones, i find it better to just pretend like they dont even exist and make due without. I also quite HATE the idea of Ancient Power.

Im sorry Trendy, but, resetting my char for a minimal lil buff and there is dozens of times you need to reset to get these things going? And on top of that, resetting all of our stuff back crap quality, when it takes SO much gold and SO many medals to rank that stuff up. I'm sorry but that's just not cool. Take out the item resets and it would be better, but I still feel like gaining ancient power shoulda been done differently. Because it's buffs idea is cool, but the way of gaining those buffs is not.

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Resetting is enough work just progressing through the maps that the gear reset feels overly punitive. You already lose most of the progress you've made in Ascension outside of extremely high pushes. You lose your floor progress. Normal shards lose their level. That is enough to justify it as a "reset".

  • At minimum, they should make c8 gear not reset. It would give you a reason to pursue c8 amps. Ideally, gear resetting wouldn't happen at all. It's why everyone seeks out the single defense option for reset spamming. It's a great sales pitch for EV2, not so great for buying anything else. 
  • Hypershards should not reset. This one is pretty obvious.
  • You should be able to gild shards with 750 dust of that tier. For shards that have a 1 in 40 chance for the most part to drop, paying a 1:75 price to gild them isn't unreasonable as a backup for really poor RNG.
  • Already a whole thread on MODs, the worst offender by miles and miles.
  • Motes need to go away, or become just 1 kind of mote rather than tiered. 
  • Item specific crafting materials need to go away, or become generalized as well so that there is only 1 tier.

DD2 has solved the problem that F2P games that rely on these kinds of layers of grind have: It's fun to play. When you can mix and match heroes, when you mow down hordes of enemies, it's fun. The characters are fun. The defenses have a lot of style, a shame that so few are widely useful. When the game gets the grind out of your way and lets you play? It's one of the very best.

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@Unleashed quote:

snip

Very well said. Love the suggestions. All of them. Only thing i would add to your list is for the C8 amps, which i like your idea for, but those need to drop at a better rate before they are used for anything else. Whole threads on that atrocity as well. 

With your ideas, i would actually use the AP system. Something i have not said on these forums once yet... 

Great post. Sharkman_insane.png

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I play but not as much as I'd like to because the game, for me, is lacking story.

You start playing a fun story-line which ends before you get too immersed. Then it's just a hodge-podge of random content and a difficulty ladder.

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I have basically quit DD2 with the enormous amount of rng and the the repeating the same maps for x material etc I couldnt stand it anymore. There isnt anything I find fun really anymore and I really wish I could muster the energy to play it again, but I just cant face the boredom of it all.To me unless you are willing to invest 1000s of hours in the game to get all the shards materials etc u will need there isnt much point in playing. The worst thing for me is what is all the grinding for exactly?Other than seeing just how far you can go in onslaught which I completely loathe what does this shiny stuff do for us? .I keep hoping some update will re-invigor me to play but so far hardly touched the game in almost a year. I will play an hour here and there sometimes but I wont look at it for another month or 2 after.

Im not entirely sure who this game is intended for anymore, it has changed so much over the years and I feel perhaps I didnt change along with it. I understand games have to evolve, but I do feel that DD2 has left some of us who came here from DD1 behind. 

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

I play but not as much as I'd like to because the game, for me, is lacking story.

You start playing a fun story-line which ends before you get too immersed. Then it's just a hodge-podge of random content and a difficulty ladder.

I definitely agree with this. That's why I had so much fun playing through the campaign during the days of NM4.

Sure, Isle of Dread does start to bring in some lore and I do really love that, however, if there's more lore based content, that would be nice. It could be where each new story arc introduced a new gamemode where some new and fresh way to play and from that we get unique reward to prep for the next story.

And that is why I will always disagree with infinite gearing. We're just climbing difficulty ladder/progression and soon it'll get mundane. (Though it is quite mundane now)

Edit: I'm just gonna add that, honestly, I never liked the concept of Adventures. It just feels off. The entire story just shortens there.

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@Exglint quote:

-snip-

I don't really play a wide variety of video games, nor do I intent to. I normally prefer to stick with a game as long as I can be it either it's already taking a nice direction or hoping that it'll take a good one  And also if I go for too many, when updates start rolling out, (updates normally does tantalize me) I'll just start getting overwhelmed. 

The only case that I went to another game from DD2 was around after the time I hit floor 114. I literally had a very bad run. Consecutive losing streaks, all the rerolls was just bad rolls. The gameplay matches just felt like a major pain by then. What kept me going was the Final Form flair set. And once that was done I was literally just burned out. So that's when I went into Hearthstone. (The Witchwood Trailer looks intriguing so that got me)

Even though I went over there, I was still playing DD2 because I am still invested into that game. I joined into that forums hanging out with all you defenders here, gave all this a meaning too. Also I don't wish to commit into another game like I did with DD2. While hearthstone is a  sort-of large scale game, I don't really need to commit that much as to DD2 as I can play in whatever pace that I want and still progress in some little way and even if I don't, I'm just having fun there. It doesn't really give me the sense of a need to complete content  that much as DD2 did (some thing that I like and don't really like too with DD2). 

However, the grind between hearthstone and DD2 do show a big difference. While both do have grindage and RNG, Hearthstone's alternative is that you're able to work towards something as for example, getting arcane dust to craft the card that you want. DD2 is purely relying in RNG in shards, and mods. 

While you did say that DD2 is a grind game and there are other games that even more of a grindage, I believe that it could be better than that. Why must it be chained to the genre?

Let's take another example of another successful tower defense game : PVZ. It is a tower defense game but it doesn't have a grind. We're just playing because we enjoy the game. I still play that game every once in a while because I just enjoy playing it. While rewards is nice and fundamental to games, sometimes we just play to have fun. Like Unleashed said, "when the game get the grind out out of the way and let's you play, it's one of the best" and I totally agree. Granted that's a game that you have to buy. 

Even though DD2 is a free to play game, there are stuffs that will still have to be a fundamental, which brings me to another thing that Unleashed said:

"It's fun to play. When you can mix and match heroes, when you mow down hordes of enemies, it's fun. The characters are fun. "

Well, sorry for the wall of text here, I just want to get more off my chest. These are just things that are killing me currently and while I am stopping until the next event or update, however, I am not ready to leave this entirely and I do not intend to leave either. I do care for the game and want it to be the best it can be. I'll still be hanging out at the forums though.

I also appreciate that the devs do take the time to hang out with us and listen, I really do. Hopefully that they do listen to this as this area of issues is the major pain point for a lot of us players.

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I'd hate to be a game developer, you try to create mechanisms people want and people complain anyway, maybe it is just different people.  If the grind wasn't there then you would pretty much gear out and max out character development with a modest amount of time and effort and then there would be nothing else to do and you would stop playing regardless.  We have been there before and it wasn't a better environment.

AP reset is optional.  You don't have to do it.  If you don't have the time then why did you reset?  It is not like it sounds like something you can do without a massive investment of time and resources.  Just don't reset.  I haven't reset, I play a few hours every few days and I have a blast.  Yeah, I don't have maxed mods on all my gear, don't need it.  If and when I get it then it will mean I will hit higher floor levels until I feel the pinch.

Get as much AP as you can and hit as high as you can with onslaught and you will get to a point you will get challenged and perhaps get to a point you don't think you can get any further playing the way you have been.  Then you can experiment with different characters, setups and you can have some fun testing new possibilities.

Just because someone hits an insane floor level with a maxed out character and maxed our gear doesn't mean I need to be able to do the same thing to have fun.  I've taken breaks from the game due to rl issues and am just enjoying my time when I can play.  Stuff buying mods from other players, all you will end up doing is cheating yourself the opportunity of finding them yourself.

There are some great games out there on steam you are going to love for about 20-40 hours, but they aren't designed to give anything more than that.  Perhaps go outside and smell some roses, take a bit of a break, try some other games.  If or when you return ask yourself what kind of experience do you want from the game and then ask yourself have you made choices which has diminished your ability to have fun because you are trying to chase what some other people are doing who have far more time than you and have far greater capacity to devote to the game.  There isn't anything wrong with them giving you and him the ability to have fun with the same game.

If I tried to do what some people can do with how much time they invest into the game then I'd be here playing some violin music and telling everyone how terrible my experience is.  Just stick to what is fun.  Honestly, I can't believe people are saying DD1 was less of a grind or it dropped constant upgrades.  I wish I can take a dose of that amnesia, that game was a black hole of time consumption.


Cheer up, it is a game!

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My new mind set that i will try to implement is to just have fun regardless. I also have goals that keep me going because I like the game.

I guess everyone has their own reason and motivation to play the game.

So i'll generalize here just to keep it simple:

People with lots of free time which results in many hours of game play in a day/week

People with a few hours to spare per day/week

People with very little time to spare per day/week

However there is another factor to include time with, and that is effort/intensity. So you could further add more categories which include the time with how much they push in that given time. Examples:

People with lots of time and push to get as much done in that time

People with little time and push to get as much done

People with lots of time but play casually

etc, etc, etc.


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Reasons I stopped playing :

  • Korean level grinding of shards, gold and crafting components. I know a F2P game has to contain grind, and I like that, but here it's insane
  • Mastery system. Although I kinda like the idea of resetting my progression, the gold farming required looks insane...
  • The lack of information regarding gears and mods : I have no idea why some gears are better than others even though they have the same level and everything.
  • Random stats on items
  • Mandatory shards : Why bother creating so many shards when a few of them are straight mandatory (like destruction or fortification)
    I'm like "hey that shard for this defense sounds fun" and then I realize the 3 shards on my defense are vitals
  • The feeling most heroes have half their kit useless
  • The "Why would I bother making defenses when I can just spam WM everywhere" effect.

And most importantly :

RNG EVERYWHERE

I expected dungeon defenders to be a game in which I can casually grind and gear up my heroes, have fun.

But nope, I have to spend hours just to get ONE shard for ONE defense of ONE hero.


I expected the dusting system to fix some issues of this game, but nope, it's RNG again.

I like games in which I can farm a specific reward even if it takes a lot of time, at least I feel like it was worth it and I didn't just waste my time.

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How reset is handled.

Tower Defense. Especially with so many heroes and special enemys.

But with every defense you like to use you multiply the resource costs after a reset.

Every shard. Every character.

This is just BS.


So much possibilitys and so many reasons what makes it harder to use them.



@Trichouette quote:
  • The "Why would I bother making defenses when I can just spam WM everywhere" effect.


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I’ve been playing DD2 hard for about 10 months now. And I still really enjoy it. But I definitely agree with many of the sentiments here. 

For me, the resetathon really started to drag around AP 20 or so. The amounts of materials needed to bring your relics and gear back up to C7 is overbearing. And hypershards are a bankruptcy sentence during this process. I actually put the AP process on hold to start gilding shards. This was out of the frying pan and into the fire.  

I think some of the issues could be solved by eliminating waste. We could safely delete many of the useless shards and mods. We could also delete all the gear below blue quality.  

For the record, I still very much enjoy this game!  I think I put in around 40 hours per week on it. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:

Only playing DD2 for dailies right now, and selling off things. 

i can relate to this ... but in a different way ... i am also only doing daily, but not because i dont like the game, but because i don't have time, so ... in a way i am glad that there is not much to do since i don't have time anyway ... i hope Comunity / Clans will be implemented a bit later and i hppe they bring more people interaction. 

Emoji_Monk.png

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@specialK quote:

How many players have stopped playing, due to crazy amount of time required, to farm for shards, mods, gear, etc?

It is no secret this game is one of the grindiest mofos out there. For me it often takes out the fun, having to deal with sorting inventory, replaying countless maps just to get that one shard, and generally not being a very friendly game in terms of progression.

So I would like to know how many players have quit or have stopped playing due to this fact, or are even considering throwing the pc or console out the window because of the extreme times of rng and farming.

And if this a thing the community would like to be addressed?

Honestly, it has been tedious, but I also run the game on 720p windows mode and then I am doing something else while I am letting the game run (book reading, work, wrestling, watching YT commentary, Stefan Molyneux videos etc). I only alt-tab back to sort inventory, press g, slay Siege Rollers or cash in my end game rewards and set my inventory. I still have plenty to do in terms of shard gilding and climb APx (current on getting Gold for AP6). I have had this habit since the days I played PSO:BB on SCHTSERV when people would make Mag Farm games just to hang out at the shop to purchase items to feed Mags (there is a 3-5 min cooldown on Mag feeding before you can do it again). 

I find you need to do multiple objectives and scatter about them to reduce the apathy of it. Like right now I am not only getting the Gold for the AP reset, but every 2000 medals I am gilding at least a Shard. I also roll a dice for the daily to decide which difficulty I do for the day so i can get bonus motes and shards. I only focus on the specific mote when I am done my Onslaught phase.

I will admit that this is definitely a very grindy game, but there are ways to make it more efficient. 

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i miss the old DD2 when items used to drop with passives. i liked the old RNG. now it takes me 100 times longer to get what i want especially when it comes to getting 10 of each shard. it’s boring farming the same chaos trying to get the 30 chaos 4 shards i need to upgrade the 3 chaos 4 shards i want. it was much easier just farming for that 3% on each piece of armor for the passive you wanted. at least if you would still get like 1-2% and still move up in % for passives

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Hey there,

Well I just started the resets so farming for materials is just now a thing.  That being said, it would be nice if your on a map that drops the feather or other and that material would be both in the chest and possibly on bosses during that map.  That being said the grind here for mats isn't harsh.

Kambien

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i don't mind grinding for shards and mods but i do hate having to get those poxy motes they need to give more than 5 plain motes a level or allow you to buy some

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@rdeal quote:

i don't mind grinding for shards and mods but i do hate having to get those poxy motes they need to give more than 5 plain motes a level or allow you to buy some

I would say allow the bosses on waves to guarantee drop one or two. This would mean a C1 map, single run, could net 6-12 motes. 

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I just hope that in the next update they do not force players to reset their medals, cultivating 250 clusters to upgrade the C8 medallion is very complicated. is the equivalent of 200 catacombs C7 maps. In addition, the sound of this map does not come out at all, even lowering the total volume. I have to listen to music on my cell phone because I can not let the sound of the game make the sound of spotify

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the problem is that the game does not offer any better odds or drop chances to level the floors, no matter if you do chaos 1 or 999 floor, the odds are the same, nothing special, there is no reason to climb the floors, have 250 minimum of ascension and 999 talents. end of the game.

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@ufolouco quote:

the problem is that the game does not offer any better odds or drop chances to level the floors, no matter if you do chaos 1 or 999 floor, the odds are the same, nothing special, there is no reason to climb the floors, have 250 minimum of ascension and 999 talents. end of the game.

I am not where you are at present. But well said! There are many opportunities to easily improve drop rates. We will see what they come up with. 

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