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High Quality MODS Are Too Rare!

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@024noi quote:

I got 2 perfect 10/10 mods just today.  Got 1 yesterday too. They drop just fine, 

Cool then sell me 2 10/10 tenacity 2 10/10 range 2 10/10 rate please and thank you.

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@Flashtzu quote:


@024noi quote:

I got 2 perfect 10/10 mods just today.  Got 1 yesterday too. They drop just fine, 

Cool then sell me 2 10/10 tenacity 2 10/10 range 2 10/10 rate please and thank you.

And thats the point. This isnt a grind its a lottery.

If I want a defense rate shard I know its about a 2.8% drop chance every c4 shard I open. I can be reasonably confident that if I run c4 for a few days I will have one.

Now lets say I want to grind a perfect tenacity. first we have to factor in that the drops are extremely weighted (low quality has a much higher chance to drop. There are also 57 mods between campaign and c2 (where tenacoty starts drppping). We have 10 tiers of each mod so now 570 possible rolls without taking the weighted drop system into account. WITHOUT a weighted system this would be a 0.17% drop rate.

Without the data on how the weighted system drops work, we need to go a bit anecdotal here. My anecdotal experience is a perfect green once every 3 days. I typically fill my inventory up at least twice a day with 7 bags for loot.  This would work out to 1/1344 chance for a perfect green or a 0.07% drop rate. Lets for argument sake say I am on the low end of the bell curve and its closer to 0.1% chance to drop.

So with our rounded perfect drop rate percent × the drop rate for a specific type of mod we end up with a 0.0017% chance to get the specific mod you are farming to drop at a perfect roll at c2. This obviously gets worse as you go up the chaos tiers.

 In gameplay hours this means over 10 hours of farming (20 items (with mod slots) at 8 minutes a map) for the same drop chance as getting 1 defense rate out of a single shard pack.

 So every 10 hours of farming for a perfect mod is the same as opening 1 single shard pack for a specific shard.

edit:adjusted numbers


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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Flashtzu quote:


@024noi quote:

I got 2 perfect 10/10 mods just today.  Got 1 yesterday too. They drop just fine, 

Cool then sell me 2 10/10 tenacity 2 10/10 range 2 10/10 rate please and thank you.


 So every 10 hours of farming for a perfect mod is the same as opening 1 single shard pack for a specific shard.

edit:adjusted numbers


We have landed on the same estimate. 10 hours of non interrupted grinding for any perfect green, is what I´ve reported as well. That is a long grind considering we can´t really target farm, because of the MOD pool being too big, and that´s why I haven´t gotten a single perfect one of the MODS I want yet... monk_small.png

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10 hours sounds about right to me as well. I just wish it was 1 relic 10/10 every 10 hours and not armor/weapon 10/10s that often.

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10 hours for a random 10/10 is a bit too long. There are 53 servos and I think 92 chips not counting pirate drops. 0.68% chance of any one of those dropping. 675 runs for a 99% chance of getting the 10/10 you want. 6,750 hours.


If there is no way to target the 10/10s need to come every 1-3 hours. 675 hours for 99% chance is not easy-mode. It's still insane for something you need 30 of to complete even a minimalist deck. 10 hours would mean a less than 1/5 chance of getting the one you want after 300 hours of farming.


That's not realistic.

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10 hours for 1 10/10 is what it currently feels like is what we were saying. and ya 7k hours for the mod i want right now does not feel great.

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@Flashtzu quote:

10 hours for 1 10/10 is what it currently feels like is what we were saying. and ya 7k hours for the mod i want right now does not feel great.

Ah - I think it's closer to 40hrs ATM, just based on my playtime divided by 10/10s that dropped and numbers others are reporting. Of course, with drop rates so low, any wave in RNG can extend things to extreme distances. 28,000 hours for a 99% chance. 

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@MaJean quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Flashtzu quote:


@024noi quote:

I got 2 perfect 10/10 mods just today.  Got 1 yesterday too. They drop just fine, 

Cool then sell me 2 10/10 tenacity 2 10/10 range 2 10/10 rate please and thank you.


 So every 10 hours of farming for a perfect mod is the same as opening 1 single shard pack for a specific shard.

edit:adjusted numbers


We have landed on the same estimate. 10 hours of non interrupted grinding for any perfect green, is what I´ve reported as well. That is a long grind considering we can´t really target farm, because of the MOD pool being too big, and that´s why I haven´t gotten a single perfect one of the MODS I want yet... monk_small.png

I think I had said a bit longer on the survey, but having given it more thought, I think 10 hours is about right.

Having said that, I still think there's a few more problems that impact this:

1)  If I'm not mistaken (someone please tell me if I'm wrong), the more desirable MODS have a lower drop rate than the less desirable ones, much like the more desirable shards drop at a far lower rate than the other shards).  For example, you have a better chance at getting a perfect Diversity Servo than you do a perfect Anti-Melee Servo.  If this ratio stays the same, even if one drops every 10 hours, you could grind for 500 hours an not get a single perfect MODS that you are looking for.  

2)  No way to farm a specific MOD, even if the drop rate for perfect MODS is increased, will still lead to confusion.  We'll just end up vendoring the "perfect" MODS that we don't want.

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@Rentard quote:



I think I had said a bit longer on the survey, but having given it more thought, I think 10 hours is about right.

Having said that, I still think there's a few more problems that impact this:

1)  If I'm not mistaken (someone please tell me if I'm wrong), the more desirable MODS have a lower drop rate than the less desirable ones, much like the more desirable shards drop at a far lower rate than the other shards).  For example, you have a better chance at getting a perfect Diversity Servo than you do a perfect Anti-Melee Servo.  If this ratio stays the same, even if one drops every 10 hours, you could grind for 500 hours an not get a single perfect MODS that you are looking for.  

2)  No way to farm a specific MOD, even if the drop rate for perfect MODS is increased, will still lead to confusion.  We'll just end up vendoring the "perfect" MODS that we don't want.

I believe you are wrong on number 1. 

Confirmation bias may make it seem that way but with 57 mods from campaign to c2 alone the pool is just too large and just looking at red drops all mods seem to drop consistently without a large drop in the more desirable ones.

This is like how people claim certain shards have a lower drop rate even though trendy keeps confirming they all have the same drop rate. Theres no reason to believe they weighted the system for most popular bis mods to drop at a lower rate, we just pay attention to the less desirable mods because its a waste of a perfect roll.



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@Nigiri_Toro quote:



I believe you are wrong on number 1. 

Confirmation bias may make it seem that way but with 57 mods from campaign to c2 alone the pool is just too large and just looking at red drops all mods seem to drop consistently without a large drop in the more desirable ones.

This is like how people claim certain shards have a lower drop rate even though trendy keeps confirming they all have the same drop rate. Theres no reason to believe they weighted the system for most popular bis mods to drop at a lower rate, we just pay attention to the less desirable mods because its a waste of a perfect roll.



You may be right.  I'm just going off personal experience and what I've heard from others.  I fully admit it may be "RNG hates me" syndrome.  For example, it took me weeks of grinding campaign with 4 apprentices to get a shatterquake servo to drop (and a low level one at that).  It took forever to find 4 mid-level Damage Buff chips.  I still to this day have not got a 10/10 MOD to drop, and the 8/10s and 9/10s I've gotten have been less than desirable.  All this to not even mention how astronomically more difficult it is to find a destruction shard now that it was before the power/crit changes.

So yeah, I admit I might be wrong, but if I am, then the RNG hates me lol

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If the mod roll system is anything like the beacons on ark survival evolved then it doesn't look good.


The way ark beacons work is it goes through a list and has a chance to include the item in the beacons inventory each item has a spawn weight aka drop rate so if the beacon has 10 items to choose from but only has 1 inventory slot and every item has 50% to drop it will start from number 1 or the first item in the list if the first item fails it moves to the next item in the list until it fills it's inventory if they all fail it will start from number 1 and try again.


Let's give it a list of 100 item's let's just assume every item has a 20% drop chance and let's say the beacon only gives 1 item it would be next to impossible to obtain the last few numbers although they all have a 20% drop rate because the items that appear first in the list would almost always take the spot in the beacon.


The drop rates could change to 5% but that still means the last in the list won't have a good chance of getting in the beacon I could change the last 20 item's in the list to have 100% drop chance and give the first 80 items 10% drop chance but that still won't guarantee the drop chance of 81+ because there is a high chance of a number between 1-80 being selected.


I'm going to assume shards work this way because they all have the same drop chance but certain shards are more common than others.

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you forgot to tell us how many maps have you done in those 3 days..... average player do couple of maps a day..... cheers

@024noi quote:

Got a perfect pierce mod today. That 4 perfect mods in 3 days. Drop rates are fine.


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Was running onslaught .. Um maybe 7 -10 maps for the pierce mod. The other three i have no idea. I play 6, some times 10 hrs a day. So ya, quite a few maps, but it's a grind game soooo .. I don't think the rates are bad considering. Besides, you don't need perfect mods to play. Started a second account a few days ago and am in c7 already. I don't even have any rate shards yet or mods of any worth. Perfect mods are sweeeeetness, but not needed.

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Why is it relevant if mods are needed or not for some type of gameplay? It's still bad implemented and need a  fix, both drope rates for high quality mods but also the system with 10 steps and the balance between each tier of quality. 

[[24131,users]] post on page 2 has some really good pointers on whats need to be fixed!

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Lottery winner says, "Everyone should buy tickets. I'm at 100,000% returns on mine."

@024noi quote:

Got a perfect pierce mod today. That 4 perfect mods in 3 days. Drop rates are fine.


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Its also not fair to claim whats needed and not when you are doing low level c7 content. On top of that the cost of upgrading c8 gear alone is an invesment and subbing out new mods costs increase significantly. So when you are doing late game floor pushing, yes, the only mods that matter are perfect. On top of that some game changing mods are only worth anything at a perfect roll.

There is a big difference between a grind and a lottery. No one is asking for handouts, they want a grind not a system where you can play for a year and never see the mod you want.

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There's a significant step up in performance from, say, a 8/10 Mod to a 10/10 mod. So, if you're climbing high in Onslaught, then a perfect mod absolutely makes a difference. 

If you're just grinding C7, you can pretty much run whatever you want and ignore mods even. 

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This thread has gotten big, and then even bigger after Lawlta has already posted that they have a survey out for your thoughts. I am seeing a lot of common points being brought up and a few things that people are missing.

On common points, well the first is right above, high Onslaught. With that I assume you are talking easily 100+ a part of the game that gives nothing more than min asc and talent caps and isn't required for anything else. This leads me to believe that it's all personal satisfaction (of some sort) to do those floors. I wouldn't want max mods to drop more often because there were players whom wanted more satisfaction. This is on top of the fact that even with max everything Onslaught is designed to stop you at some point, ie. you aren't supposed to "Beat" this mode. 

The next common point is that no one trades max mods because they are too valuable. This increase of max mods won't change that. Hoarders will always hoard, and even if I had all the anti-melee mods I need I will still keep max anti-melee mods I get as drops for, if I want to try a new thing, a new hero that is released or the plain answer of I don't know when I will need another. 

The last one I saw was people do get max mods but just not the one you want. I agree that I also have gotten very nice mods that I will never use, I have 10+ AP Gunwitch weapons and I never play her (I have a physical disability that makes it hard) so those must be completely worthless mods right? I should just trash them because if I won't use them then no one would. Which brings me to my next point :)

The first of the missed information, Juice said he had 4 max mods that he will use not that he has only seen 4 max mods. I'm positive that he has max mods that others will use but I can't recall a time where he has posted into discord or the forums looking to sell those maxes. Just because he can't use them doesn't mean others won't right? Welcome to the root of the problem. I bought a bunch of Hero HP mods just before I started resets because my Huntress was struggling, players assume these are terrible mods so having 98% of the community not selling these made it hard to buy them. We are the problem not the drop rates.

The second missed part I don't believe I even saw posted was how many 7+ mods anyone has found or even 8+ or 9+. These mods are very viable and where I agree there are a few that could use some tweaks to make them more usable at that level, most of the ones that we look for are okay at that point. I use dozens of 7-9 mods all across things (that I had as drops not bought) and I never had any significant issue clearing the required parts of the game.

tldr; I play 25 hours a week and I have 3 tabs full of 4+ bar mods that were all very helpful in getting me to the required parts of the game with a bunch of max mods dropped since Protean Shift which leads me to believe that this system is fine as is and it's the players that are making it dry. Even with increased drops rates I wouldn't sell my mods in discord or forums because I may need them in the future so why would I expect anyone else to do anything different. Last point, why would Trendy be expected to balance the entirety of mod drops around the less than 1% of players pushing 250+ :thinking:

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You're extrapolating what you want into what is good game design for everyone.

1) No one is going to beat Onslaught. Not with all 5/10 mods or all 10/10 mods. This unachievable endpoint is going to exist. Most people with all 10/10 mods will not even reach the limits some have with less than that now. It's not about "beating" Onslaught. Onslaught is where 10/10s become visible in their power difference. Different point.

2) I've bought a few 10/10s. The market is locked largely due to priceless values for rare mods, but sales still happen. It's only reasonable to expect that players will have dissimilar goals at any moment and that relative to the quantity of 10/10s which exist now, sales will happen. More sales. That you would hoard everything you get is about you. It's not what I would do (I sold a 10/10 tenacity because I need 3 other mods more atm)

3) Sitting around in town trying to sell mods that are generally considered useless when everyone is trying to hoard gold to get the ones they definitely need does not make much sense if you have a desire to progress. There is no auction house. You're either selling, or playing. What I see with people who post useless mods every day in their gigantic [H] threads is that they have the same thing every day. 

4) 7-9s can be useful, but they're not "complete". Finishing a 10/10 set has design value. It's satisfying in a way 9/10s are not, regardless of power difference. 10/10s would be sought after even if they were 5% more powerful than a 9/10. 

5) It's precisely not the players pushing 250 they need to address drops for. Currently a single 10/10 targeted drop will require thousands of hours. Thousands. Between players pushing 250+, and random average players, you can guess which are more likely to commit even 30 consecutive hours to farm a single 10/10 mod, a small fraction of what it would take now.

tldr; This is really easy. How many hours should it take to have a minimalist deck with 10/10 mods on armor and relics? That is a personal goal. You can say it doesn't matter, because they can do things before that, but then you're ignoring collectors, completionists, achievement hunters. It does matter. And it should be < 600 hours, not more than 10,000. The drop rate has to make that possible.


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@Unleashed quote:

You're extrapolating what you want into what is good game design for everyone.

1) No one is going to beat Onslaught. Not with all 5/10 mods or all 10/10 mods. This unachievable endpoint is going to exist. Most people with all 10/10 mods will not even reach the limits some have with less than that now. It's not about "beating" Onslaught. Onslaught is where 10/10s become visible in their power difference. Different point.

2) I've bought a few 10/10s. The market is locked largely due to priceless values for rare mods, but sales still happen. It's only reasonable to expect that players will have dissimilar goals at any moment and that relative to the quantity of 10/10s which exist now, sales will happen. More sales. That you would hoard everything you get is about you. It's not what I would do (I sold a 10/10 tenacity because I need 3 other mods more atm)

3) Sitting around in town trying to sell mods that are generally considered useless when everyone is trying to hoard gold to get the ones they definitely need does not make much sense if you have a desire to progress. There is no auction house. You're either selling, or playing. What I see with people who post useless mods every day in their gigantic [H] threads is that they have the same thing every day. 

4) 7-9s can be useful, but they're not "complete". Finishing a 10/10 set has design value. It's satisfying in a way 9/10s are not, regardless of power difference. 10/10s would be sought after even if they were 5% more powerful than a 9/10. 

5) It's precisely not the players pushing 250 they need to address drops for. Currently a single 10/10 targeted drop will require thousands of hours. Thousands. Between players pushing 250+, and random average players, you can guess which are more likely to commit even 30 consecutive hours to farm a single 10/10 mod, a small fraction of what it would take now.

tldr; This is really easy. How many hours should it take to have a minimalist deck with 10/10 mods on armor and relics? That is a personal goal. You can say it doesn't matter, because they can do things before that, but then you're ignoring collectors, completionists, achievement hunters. It does matter. And it should be < 600 hours, not more than 10,000. The drop rate has to make that possible.


1. Even with the difference being visible , that still leaves it as personal satisfaction.

2. My point exactly, if you had those 3 other mods you would not have sold that Tenacity, thus one less person selling a highly desired mod. ie. Problem remains

3. I never wanted a trade system and very much less like what we have now, so I agree for the most part with this one. Though even with an AH they would gate us with slots and the same issue would remain with people only selling highest value anyways but at least more players would see them so they may sell faster.

4. Still doesn't give a purposeful meaning to make drop rates higher, this basically says "No matter what we would chase max mods" which I don't know about Trendy but to me says "Why change it if it changes nothing"

5. Last I saw only the high Onslaught players are the ones who want these to continue playing beyond the limits of what a 8+/10 can give you, which means yes that's exactly who these changes are for.

On your tldr, Players like Juice and I have thousands of hours in the game, and will continue putting much more in. If it takes less than 600 to get a minimalist deck even assuming 3 heroes geared fully with max mods then he and I would have several decks worth of fully maxed heroes fairly easily, not to mention those who have hundreds of millions of gold to buy all the mods.

In any case, just wanted to weigh in really. Trendy has already put out a survey and the course of action is already in motion. There is no way of changing this now and we just have to wait to see what is done and start the process over again after the decision is made.

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[[174624,users]] Still adjusting drop rate for high quality mods and make the scaling from 1/10 -> 10/10 more linear would make it a better system then it is now regardless of what floor or chaos lvl you playing on. 

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