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Juicebags

High Quality MODS Are Too Rare!

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To be perfectly honest, MODs, as they are currently implemented, are probably the worst thing that's been added to the game. I say this only because it impacts all players rather than the small crust of players who are on floor 59+. Try explaining how it works to another gamer who doesn't play DD2 and see what kind of reaction you get.

During beta, we had Spheres (equipable 1-time purchases that don't take up inventory space and can be rearranged freely) and equipment passives (permanently attached perks that alter the behavior of defenses). At some point, Trendy realized this was stupid and created Shards instead. They take up inventory space now, but you don't have to be crazy lucky on the passives you want rolling together on the same item. Certainly a step in the right direction.

And then they roll out MODs. On the surface, it looks like a big increase in power, but it comes with a bunch of new pain points.

  • Can't move a MOD from a high level item down to a low level item (exasperated by AP resets and the new crafting system)
  • Moving a MOD from a low level item to a high level item retains the stats of the low level MOD (exasperated by the new crafting system)
  • Often can't tell the difference between MOD quality (there are 5 bars but 10 colors, some of which are difficult to tell apart unless seen side-by-side)
  • Can't experiment with MODs to see which combinations work best without losing them (or having unequal comparisons due to minor stat differences in the equipment)
  • Can't treat old MODs as hand-me-downs for less frequently used heroes (if I add a 9/10 now on an item that already has 2 10/10s, I have no way of transferring the perfectly good 9/10 to another hero when I finally get the 10/10 version).
  • Exponential ramping up in power means the difference between 1 and 8 is actually smaller than the difference between 8 and 10.
  • Some MODs, like Tenacity, are basically worthless unless you have a 10.
  • Good mods can roll on garbage equipment, so you literally have to check every single piece of gear that drops to make sure you don't miss one.
  • Tinkering requires spending premium currencies. This is fine for veterans who have run out of things to use medals on, but hell for new players who must choose between saving medals for a new hero and improving their existing heroes.

How can the same developers who replaced the equipment passives with the Shard system be the same developers who came up with MODs? It's literally *** built on top of ***. It's certainly better than the old equipment passives, but it is a massive step back from Shards. It doesn't have to stay ***ty, though. With a few modifications, it could become the system we were hoping for when we were first given teasers about it.

My recommendations are similar to what's already been mentioned, with a few additions:

  • The stats for MODs should always be based on the strength of the item it's on. Moving a c4 MOD to a c7 item (or vice versa) should make it have the strength of a c7 MOD, not c4.
  • Keep the 5 bars, reduce the number of quality levels to 5. Pick 5 colors that can be easily distinguished without having to hold them up against a color chart.
  • Even out the stat progression between the quality levels, each quality level should feel like an actual upgrade over the previous one.
  • Get rid of motes completely. No one wants to farm this ***. Return to the old system where it only costs gold to do upgrades.
  • Remove the premium currencies requirement for tinkering if you're going to keep destroying the source item.
  • Add a new tinkering option that uses premium currencies to shuffle MODs around without destroying the source item, you can even make it a flat 200 medals/50 gems. Veterans are more likely to need this feature than new players are.

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@mayhem_zero quote:


@Juicebags quote:Now of course Trendy has stated that they want these high end mods to be really special like getting Ultimate ++ gear in DD1 was. In my opinion this has been taken to an extreme as I personally decked out all of my heroes in Ultimate ++ gear in the amount of time I have spent grinding these mods.

My experience with Ultimate++ armour drops in DD1 is somewhere around 1 for every 1k hours in game with a fairly high percentage of my time spent farming since I only use self-farmed gear. (I have a total of 4 pieces to date with one of those being a troll piece which is basically a glorified Ultimate.) I will definitely not put in the required hours to farm even 1 Ultimate++ set, and as a matter of fact don't even have all my main heroes in full Ultimate sets.

Wow that's terrible. I was a late arrival to DD1 and was pretty much showered with Ultimate ++ pieces daily. I would literally find several  (now with wrong stats maybe) every single day.

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There are so many layers to this issue.

Too much trash/Too low mod drop rate: 

There is way too much trash in this game and we have to sort through each individual piece. I average having to go through 7 bags of inventory 3 times  a day.  Thats 1344 pieces of loot. I typically average a max mod once every 3-4 days at that rate. thats a 1/4032 and 1/5376 chance  (  about 0.02% ) to get a max mod. While anecdotal this is in line with the experience of what everyone I have talked to has seen.


c8 gear costs too much:

Part of the reason we are only talking about max mods here is the cost of c8 gear. The majority of the community is still on their AP grind but this part of the game is coming soon for them. Material costs and rng of amps is another chokepoint of rng grinding in this game.

AMP drop rate -  Trendy reduced the maps by 2/3s in onslaught but the amp (and defender pack) drop rate seems to have stayed the same. This effectively gives us 1/3 of the chance to get a amp or defender pack that we had pre patch before hitting a floor we can no longer progress in. Now this would be all well and good if we were continuing to reset over and over after we had all the AP powers and caps just to climb up again but there are two major issues here - the cost (what you lose in terms of materials and time) of losing c8 gear and a reason to reset if you have the AP and talent caps already.


Crafting materials - This game has been flooded with too many crafting materials, and the requirements for the amount of materials are absurd.

To max out 1 8 relic you need 250 pristine clusters and 6 c8 amps (along with motes but everyone has those).

you get 1-2 clusters per c7 lost dungeon map. So after running onslaught enough to get the amps you need they then require you to grind out on average 166 c7 dungeon maps. Thats another 22 hours of grinding (at 8 minutes a map) just for a crafting material that only drops out of the end game chest just so you can upgrade your relics. That is CRAZY. Right now I am paying people 150k gold per cluster and they still arent selling since the amount you can farm per hour is so low.  The crafting material requirements are absurd in this game and we have too many tiers of crafting materials in general. This is another chokepoint that seems to have been implemented to add another unnecessary grind to the game.


Grinding isnt a bad thing when the time vs reward is balanced correctly. We are so far off that right now that its breaking the game. theres too much to grind just for the sake of grinding (absurd crafting material requirements). 


The thing is this grind, the materials requirements, even the drop rate wouldnt be a problem is this game had a playerbase the size of Warframe.  But we dont. We have 1% of the size of that playerbase. The rarity of perfect mods, crafting materials etc vs the number of players playing has lead of hording of the items people want (anti melee, tenacity for instance) and no amount of gold is worth the price since theres no way to guarantee you will ever see one again. 

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Agreed with nearly all of it (the drop rates would still be a problem with a playerbase the wise of Warframe, the demand would scale with supply and we'd be back where we started but with more gold tycoons), but this is the most important point and why it's deserving of a response and quick fix.

The requirements are all out of scale. From how they handle AP resets and what that does to hero and defense diversity (how is it healthy for the game to promote people building around a single defense?!), to crafting materials for progression, to drop rates on MODs. 

It's an absurd set of overlapping obstacles that have nothing to do with engaging defense strategy and everything to do with item management and alt-tab farming.

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

Grinding isnt a bad thing when the time vs reward is balanced correctly. We are so far off that right now that its breaking the game. theres too much to grind just for the sake of grinding (absurd crafting material requirements). 

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This seems to be spiraling, so instead of addressing a ton of questions in a shotgun approach, I'll go with the initial subject of the thread.

We're looking into the drop rate of high quality mods, specifically 10/10. There's only one way for their drop rate to go, and that is up. We'll keep you posted on changes to come. :)

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@LAWLTA quote:

This seems to be spiraling, so instead of addressing a ton of questions in a shotgun approach, I'll go with the initial subject of the thread.

We're looking into the drop rate of high quality mods, specifically 10/10. There's only one way for their drop rate to go, and that is up. We'll keep you posted on changes to come. :)

Thanks so much for the reply [[166314,users]] ! Knowing you all are gonna look at it is good enough for me! I do appreciate it, stay Trendolicious Emoji_Kobalt.png

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Dont go overboard now, they should still be rare, not drop like legendaries. The filter is more important IMO.

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I say keep the rates as they are... Now I feel like I can even use 5/10 mod, because it is getting harder of get better one. With lowering the rate I will feel like wasting of time or medals or materials if I can just wait and farm till I get the best one.

I know everyone wants the best mod, but dont forget you can buy it from other players too if you arent that lucky so meanwhile you can farm gold and stuff to afford it. 

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@zaxzax quote:

I say keep the rates as they are... Now I feel like I can even use 5/10 mod, because it is getting harder of get better one. With lowering the rate I will feel like wasting of time or medals or materials if I can just wait and farm till I get the best one.

I know everyone wants the best mod, but dont forget you can buy it from other players too if you arent that lucky so meanwhile you can farm gold and stuff to afford it. 

You can not buy it from other players, because the drop rate is so low the market itself is awful. Very rarely are people willing to part with "the good mods" and when they are its too expensive. 90% of the market channel is [W] XXXX [H] Gold when it should be much closer to 50 or 60 percent of people posting haves vs wants.

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@LAWLTA quote:

This seems to be spiraling, so instead of addressing a ton of questions in a shotgun approach, I'll go with the initial subject of the thread.

We're looking into the drop rate of high quality mods, specifically 10/10. There's only one way for their drop rate to go, and that is up. We'll keep you posted on changes to come. :)

Thank you, Great Bearded One!

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@zaxzax quote:

I say keep the rates as they are... Now I feel like I can even use 5/10 mod, because it is getting harder of get better one. With lowering the rate I will feel like wasting of time or medals or materials if I can just wait and farm till I get the best one.

I know everyone wants the best mod, but dont forget you can buy it from other players too if you arent that lucky so meanwhile you can farm gold and stuff to afford it. 

To be fair (and no offense meant at all), you're not far enough into the game to know this yet. You probably recognize my name from yesterday. It's quite a mistake to ask for something to be kept as it is when you're not sure what it is right now. I can't even overspend on mods I want because they are so rare they do not drop to people willing to resell them.

It's the difference between something being rare and expensive and it instead being "priceless", such that it's rare enough and valuable enough that those who have it typically only sell at a price others are unwilling to pay. This isn't players grousing they can't get the best mods overnight. It's players wondering why a system was designed such that it is impossible to get what you want regardless of time invested (to a reasonable limit, few of us plan to be playing this in 15 yrs).

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5. How many perfect roll MODS have you seen dropped for you?

6. How many perfect roll MODS have dropped for you?


what? is one of these supposed to be asking how many useful perfect MODS have dropped for you?

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Are armor/weapon 10/10s on the same drop algorithm  as relic 10/10's? maybe the answer is to make the roll chances unique of each other? Because just looking at the amount of mods in the game armor/weapon ones far outnumber the more useful relic mods and if they are on the same drop algorithm this would highly dilute relic 10/10s.

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