Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Lapiz

Bugs

Recommended Posts

Stacking minions does not really give you too much of an advantage. Plus if you are referring to the spider and mage combo, they normally do not really effect your minion wall as far as placing them behind the wall for healing and extra damage. I would be perfectly fine with removing minion stacking, because it did not ever really benifit me. there is so much du and mu on maps that you should not need to rely on stacking any buildings or minions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mana Swirling: I completely agree with you. Just because it makes the game "easier" for people they don't want it patched. If people used modded weapons in the past without it being bannable and all of a sudden they say it's not allowed, people would outcry over that too. Mana Swirling decreases the strategy aspect of the game.


Lab Assault: I agree with the drops needing to be nerfed, however, only on the lower difficulties. Recently I made a restart playthrough of the main campaign with level 0s. At level 60 with a core drop crystal-tracker (not the mission one and still not a bf drill), I was able to solo lab assault on easy. Netting hundreds of millions of mana compared to a few tens of thousands I was getting. For higher levels as stated by others, Moon Base is the best for armor hunting. Also, if anything at least fix the buggy EVs. I am tired of them not spawning in or getting stuck on railings.


Tower Stacking: I completely agree, It's a broken "mechanic" and needs to be fixed ASAP. Just because something has existed for a long time doesn't make it not broken. The previous example works here from Mana Swirling. I saw another say,

 "The only way it influences the game is that it saves on space and du. It saves 2 du from making a 4 du beam instead of a 6 du beam. You can say it's overpowered just because you don't like it but you can do just as well without stacking, you just need to know how to actually play the game."


If "only saving space on du" is not considered absurdly broken, what is the point of there being defense units in the first place? or even minion units? I also saw another post with,

"Imagine an old 10k hours player, that farmed with those "exploits" for all that time, how would it be fair for new players to farm without ?"


The logic here is still flawed. It wasn't fair for the 10k hours player to use the exploits at all themselves. It wouldn't be fair for the new player to farm with it. There is a reason when you try to place a tower normally you CAN'T place another on top of it.


Another example

"Anyone who thinks lts are op or stacking is op. try not using the two things i listed bellow.

-Any build on a non-base game map that is on NMHC that uses buff beams

-Any build on a non-base game map that is on NMHC that uses strength drains."


The problem with this is: Buff beams don't have to be stacked on. Removing buff beams is nowhere near the same as removing stacking. Same with strength drains. I'm not even sure how you got stacking from those two things. Now for stacking not being allowed. From the maps I actually have the stats to complete, I have completed. I have yet to use stacking because it is a BROKEN bug that needs to be fixed.



"how is other people in their PRIVATE games affecting you? Same goes for stacking. And if you join someone who is stacking/using events then just leave. Play how you want to and stop accusing others for being unskilled for wanting to run maps a bit faster."


This actually affects everyone directly. Allowing for one bug to go through opens the avenue for allowing others. You claim "private" games can't affect you, however, this is still RANKED. If someone is using hacked gear and weapons, this argument would state that it doesn't affect you. What of the items they farm? What of the coal, cubes, Ult++ items? What of all the gear that has been duped, the event items duped. All of this directly affects the community as a whole. 


To finish this off I leave it on, All of these should be fixed. Bugging the game to your advantage is cheating in my eyes. Fix other bugs as well such as stuck enemies. I wouldn't mind if these didn't get changed as long as it is moved to only be allowed out of ranked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only gonna talk about 2 things because you wrote so much lmao

@Gizzy quote:

Tower Stacking: I completely agree, It's a broken "mechanic" and needs to be fixed ASAP. Just because something has existed for a long time doesn't make it not broken. The previous example works here from Mana Swirling. I saw another say,

 "The only way it influences the game is that it saves on space and du. It saves 2 du from making a 4 du beam instead of a 6 du beam. You can say it's overpowered just because you don't like it but you can do just as well without stacking, you just need to know how to actually play the game."


If "only saving space on du" is not considered absurdly broken, what is the point of there being defense units in the first place? or even minion units? I also saw another post with,

"Imagine an old 10k hours player, that farmed with those "exploits" for all that time, how would it be fair for new players to farm without ?"


The logic here is still flawed. It wasn't fair for the 10k hours player to use the exploits at all themselves. It wouldn't be fair for the new player to farm with it. There is a reason when you try to place a tower normally you CAN'T place another on top of it.


Another example

"Anyone who thinks lts are op or stacking is op. try not using the two things i listed bellow.

-Any build on a non-base game map that is on NMHC that uses buff beams

-Any build on a non-base game map that is on NMHC that uses strength drains."


The problem with this is: Buff beams don't have to be stacked on. Removing buff beams is nowhere near the same as removing stacking. Same with strength drains. I'm not even sure how you got stacking from those two things. Now for stacking not being allowed. From the maps I actually have the stats to complete, I have completed. I have yet to use stacking because it is a BROKEN bug that needs to be fixed.



"how is other people in their PRIVATE games affecting you? Same goes for stacking. And if you join someone who is stacking/using events then just leave. Play how you want to and stop accusing others for being unskilled for wanting to run maps a bit faster."


This actually affects everyone directly. Allowing for one bug to go through opens the avenue for allowing others. You claim "private" games can't affect you, however, this is still RANKED. If someone is using hacked gear and weapons, this argument would state that it doesn't affect you. What of the items they farm? What of the coal, cubes, Ult++ items? What of all the gear that has been duped, the event items duped. All of this directly affects the community as a whole. 


To finish this off I leave it on, All of these should be fixed. Bugging the game to your advantage is cheating in my eyes. Fix other bugs as well such as stuck enemies. I wouldn't mind if these didn't get changed as long as it is moved to only be allowed out of ranked.

the strength beams and buffs beams arent literally like stacking, earlier im pretty sure the comparison was made in terms of how important they were. like, from how necessary they were in builds. you can do every map with and without stacking and you'll be fine. but if you do a map without strength drains/buff beams in nightmare, i can almost guarantee you're going to lose.

I can see what you mean when you mention they dont get stacked on in a literal sense since theyre auras and beams, but when this was mentioned previously, im sure it wasn't meant to be taken literally. it was in terms of you can do anything without stacking but you cant do anything without buff beams / strength drains. therefore stacking isnt as OP as other things in the game.


And for the other peoples private games affecting everyone elses "directly" im not sure if you know what youre talking about. I dont think my modding, hacking and abusing of in-game mechanics affects you in anyway. have you even seen me or anything ive upgraded before ingame? probably not. you probably weren't aware of how many rainmakers ive duped and sold to people in pubs. ((( I haven't actually done these things, I'm saying these things as an example. Well, besides stacking, swirling and playing in a private game. )))


oh and for your last paragraph, you can have your stances and your opinions and im not going to forcefully change your mind like some people. but for me, i understand that yes, these are bugs, yes you can say that saving 3 du is cheating and saving 30 seconds on farming coal is cheating, and mana swirling is cheating (i agree that this is op but nerfing is out of the question lol). but in the end, if you just dont use these then it wouldnt be a problem. If you never knew what stacking was then you wouldn't complain, if you never heard what swirling was then you wouldnt complain. but hell, if monks and evs weren't a thing, youd be screaming bloody murder saying every map in nightmare is so infuriating and this game is extremely unbalanced. 


i know its a stupid argument to be made, but i dont see these as  "problems". i see these more as game mechanics. once you hit end game where youre farming every good map in nm hc and youre getting towards 7k stats, or whatever stats. you realize that stacking isnt op, its just there. genie swirling is op, i wont disagree, but most of the community actually likes it and there was already a beta a while ago that featured a genie nerf and everyone who played it hated it. 


people shout nerf stacking and stuff, but thats not even op end game. wheeling, ball blaster, strength drains, buff beams and more are even more op. actually no, i wouldnt call them op, id call them essential at end game and extremely good at all the other points in your game time.


tbh i dont even stack lts, i stack dsts with a boost summoner and that works better in some maps. oh, 2k hours btw if that means anything. and all my builders and dps are between 6-7k tops.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



@bonny quote:

I can see what you mean when you mention they dont get stacked on in a literal sense since theyre auras and beams, but when this was mentioned previously, im sure it wasn't meant to be taken literally. it was in terms of you can do anything without stacking but you cant do anything without buff beams / strength drains. therefore stacking isnt as OP as other things in the game.

The problem in this argument is beams and auras are part of the game and NOT bugs in the coding. unlike tower stacking.



@bonny quote:

And for the other peoples private games affecting everyone elses "directly" im not sure if you know what youre talking about. I dont think my modding, hacking and abusing of in-game mechanics affects you in anyway. have you even seen me or anything ive upgraded before ingame? probably not. you probably weren't aware of how many rainmakers ive duped and sold to people in pubs. ((( I haven't actually done these things, I'm saying these things as an example. Well, besides stacking, swirling and playing in a private game. )))

Literally, in the end, you explained how it can be DIRECTLY affecting the community. The only possible way for it not to affect the community as a whole is if you only cheat in offline mode.



@bonny quote:

but in the end, if you just dont use these then it wouldnt be a problem. If you never knew what stacking was then you wouldn't complain, if you never heard what swirling was then you wouldnt complain. but hell, if monks and evs weren't a thing, youd be screaming bloody murder saying every map in nightmare is so infuriating and this game is extremely unbalanced. 

Lack of knowledge is not a fair comparison. If neither of those characters existed, new ones would have been created to take their place on maps that seem impossible. And if they weren't, this is a strategy game after all, and the community would find a way to beat the maps without said characters. The other problem in this argument is they are INTENDED characters. They were made on purpose.



@bonny quote:

i know its a stupid argument to be made, but i dont see these as  "problems". i see these more as game mechanics. once you hit end game where youre farming every good map in nm hc and youre getting towards 7k stats, or whatever stats. you realize that stacking isnt op, its just there. genie swirling is op, i wont disagree, but most of the community actually likes it and there was already a beta a while ago that featured a genie nerf and everyone who played it hated it. 

I addressed this problem in my previous post. Use swirling in place of modded weapons and the reasoning stays exactly the same.

@Gizzy quote:

Mana Swirling: I completely agree with you. Just because it makes the game "easier" for people they don't want it patched. If people used modded weapons in the past without it being bannable and all of a sudden they say it's not allowed, people would outcry over that too. Mana Swirling decreases the strategy aspect of the game.

And secondly, If stacking wasn't OP why would the community disagree with it being removed as its a bug? If you are given an advantage from a bug and if they were to remove it that people complain. It should be considered OP. People need to remember this is a strategy game. You should not have to rely on bugs.



@bonny quote:

people shout nerf stacking and stuff, but thats not even op end game. wheeling, ball blaster, strength drains, buff beams and more are even more op. actually no, i wouldnt call them op, id call them essential at end game and extremely good at all the other points in your game time.

Stacking isn't intended, the rest are. That is the difference. While they can still be nerfed they aren't bugs. You can not compare bugs to intended mechanics. That would be like comparing 100% speedrunners to any% speedrunners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Gizzy quote:



@bonny quote:

I can see what you mean when you mention they dont get stacked on in a literal sense since theyre auras and beams, but when this was mentioned previously, im sure it wasn't meant to be taken literally. it was in terms of you can do anything without stacking but you cant do anything without buff beams / strength drains. therefore stacking isnt as OP as other things in the game.

The problem in this argument is beams and auras are part of the game and NOT bugs in the coding. unlike tower stacking.



@bonny quote:

And for the other peoples private games affecting everyone elses "directly" im not sure if you know what youre talking about. I dont think my modding, hacking and abusing of in-game mechanics affects you in anyway. have you even seen me or anything ive upgraded before ingame? probably not. you probably weren't aware of how many rainmakers ive duped and sold to people in pubs. ((( I haven't actually done these things, I'm saying these things as an example. Well, besides stacking, swirling and playing in a private game. )))

Literally, in the end, you explained how it can be DIRECTLY affecting the community. The only possible way for it not to affect the community as a whole is if you only cheat in offline mode.



@bonny quote:

but in the end, if you just dont use these then it wouldnt be a problem. If you never knew what stacking was then you wouldn't complain, if you never heard what swirling was then you wouldnt complain. but hell, if monks and evs weren't a thing, youd be screaming bloody murder saying every map in nightmare is so infuriating and this game is extremely unbalanced. 

Lack of knowledge is not a fair comparison. If neither of those characters existed, new ones would have been created to take their place on maps that seem impossible. And if they weren't, this is a strategy game after all, and the community would find a way to beat the maps without said characters. The other problem in this argument is they are INTENDED characters. They were made on purpose.



@bonny quote:

i know its a stupid argument to be made, but i dont see these as  "problems". i see these more as game mechanics. once you hit end game where youre farming every good map in nm hc and youre getting towards 7k stats, or whatever stats. you realize that stacking isnt op, its just there. genie swirling is op, i wont disagree, but most of the community actually likes it and there was already a beta a while ago that featured a genie nerf and everyone who played it hated it. 

I addressed this problem in my previous post. Use swirling in place of modded weapons and the reasoning stays exactly the same.

@Gizzy quote:

Mana Swirling: I completely agree with you. Just because it makes the game "easier" for people they don't want it patched. If people used modded weapons in the past without it being bannable and all of a sudden they say it's not allowed, people would outcry over that too. Mana Swirling decreases the strategy aspect of the game.

And secondly, If stacking wasn't OP why would the community disagree with it being removed as its a bug? If you are given an advantage from a bug and if they were to remove it that people complain. It should be considered OP. People need to remember this is a strategy game. You should not have to rely on bugs.



@bonny quote:

people shout nerf stacking and stuff, but thats not even op end game. wheeling, ball blaster, strength drains, buff beams and more are even more op. actually no, i wouldnt call them op, id call them essential at end game and extremely good at all the other points in your game time.

Stacking isn't intended, the rest are. That is the difference. While they can still be nerfed they aren't bugs. You can not compare bugs to intended mechanics. That would be like comparing 100% speedrunners to any% speedrunners.

do you have discord? i really want to talk to you in a call about this. you dont understand what im trying to say and i feel as though if you heard me youd understand


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Herr Jeol quote:

It's either download a emulator or buy 3 controllers, not everyone can buy 3 controllers just to get 4 characters in and that makes the emulator the much cheaper way. 

Also keep in mind that LT's has already been nerfed quite heavily in the last patch. i think they are in a better place right now than what they used to be. Stacking LT's and stacking in general has been part of the game for years i don't see why that would need changing, let the people that want to use it do so and if you don't like it don't use it. A macro is not required to stack and if you can't do it without you simply just suck. :D

With my old keyboard stacking was no problem, I failed it from time to time but was ok at it.

With the new keyboard i just manage to stack once in like 20 tries which is really strange.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...