Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AltartikusPG

With the next update, why not add some more diversity ?

Recommended Posts

I was talking on the Discord with some members of the community today. We were talking about some unused defenses and shards that could be better if they were a bit more buffed than what they are at the moment.

With the last expansion came Power Creep, the possibility to overpower your ennemies so that it's now not even good to build blockade anymore. Even if your are not powerful enough, it's possible to CC your ennemies so they can't do anything nor try to destroy the objectives.

Just to be clear, I am not telling that the tower under here are overpowered. I just wanna see a bit more diversity in the game I love.

Let's check what's in the meta at the moment :

Dryad :

- Moss Hornet's Ness is one of the best tower of the moment. They have insane range and power and what's more ? You got 3 for the price of one ! For 3M DPS each, with the addition of Anti-Melee and Melee-Boom, those are insanely good.

Monk :

- Flame Aura is the most powerful tower of the starter heroes, in my opinion. It got range, it got damage and the cost is low, which make them a good investment. It's not even rare to see those go to 1M DPS with some Anti-Melee and Melee-Boom in the addition.

- Lightning Strike Aura can easily one shot mobs. They are just insane for a tower that only attack once a second and do single target damage.

- Skyguard are the best anti-air defense of the game, if we don't count the bees of the Dryad who can hit air target. Dealing 3M to 4M DPS isn't something to sh*t on!

Huntress

- Poison Dart Tower is the only tower of the Huntress that see play. Damage is good, it counter easily Control Lane in Onslaught, can hit air target and ground one too. Perfect for every situation.

EV2

- Weapon Manufacturer is the best CC you could ever dreamed of. Beside dealing massive damage in zone, it can also crowd control with the right mod, 20% chance on each it. Note that those hit almost three time a second and that you got 3 of them.

If you see more than this, just tell me. That is my observation.


So to the main topic of the post. Those towers are powerful and doesn't need specific shards to shine. That's good in itself and that's where all the towers should be. Since now we overpower monster that easily, why not change some shard that could make other towers relevant as the best one seen above ? I would love to see the return of blockade... Even if it's only for offensive way !

So here are the shards I though about that I would like to be changed. If there are any other that you would like to see appear here and get changed, leave a comment and I would add it to the list ! *The Damage % of those shards could also be tweak to balance a bit more the damage*

Blockade : 

- Explosive Guard : I would love to see the change of "140%-500% of Defense Health" to "140%-500% of Defense Max Health". This change change would add even more use to the shard since blockade, to start with, stack massive health pool. At the moment, you could stack up to 60K Defense Health if you really want to. if we do some quick math, 60K * 5 = 300K Damage. 300K Damage for a shard sloth with a 35% chance of activation on damage taken... Isn't it a bit on the low side since, for exemple, a Moss Hornet Ness can do 3M per Bees, so 9M DPS. I know that blockade aren't meant for damage dealing. But with this power creep, it's almost a waste of DU to put them on the ground since everything dies from your attacking towers.

- Explosive Shielding Guard : I would like to apply the same change as the Explosive Guard. For the shielding part of the shard, I would do the same too. Why would you want a shield of only 130K when your defense have already 3M Defense Max Health...

- Shielding Guard : I would see the same change as mention before.

- Electric Fingers : Changing the value of "40%-400% of Defense Health" to "40%-400% of Defense Max Health" would make this shard a must have in any Orc Blockade. It's still a 30% chance of activation when the tower is attacking. So it will require the tower to hit ennemies to be activated. 

Tower :

Still need some thinking. The post will be edited with new idea.


I do think there are other shards that need some buff and changes like those and I encourage everyone that see one to help me gather list of them !

Thanks for reading this far,

Altar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The title,intro and meta description led me to believe you where looking for more diversity in all defenses, not just wanting blockades back.

I do agree the game is in need of a diversity check. TE need to take a look at each defense cos some of them are severely lackluster compared to meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, thanks you for answering !

Second, I know it may sound like I only want blockade, but the thing is that I need some ideas to help me with the other towers. I want the help of everyone for it. I got some ideas, but need to be polished first.

Let me know if you got some !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@AltartikusPG quote:

First, thanks you for answering !

Second, I know it may sound like I only want blockade, but the thing is that I need some ideas to help me with the other towers. I want the help of everyone for it. I got some ideas, but need to be polished first.

Let me know if you got some !

I did a thread relating to this the other day regarding how I miss protons, but I could also have called it "I miss diversity" squire_small.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@MaJean quote:


@AltartikusPG quote:

First, thanks you for answering !

Second, I know it may sound like I only want blockade, but the thing is that I need some ideas to help me with the other towers. I want the help of everyone for it. I got some ideas, but need to be polished first.

Let me know if you got some !

I did a thread relating to this the other day regarding how I miss protons, but I could also have called it "I miss diversity" squire_small.png

Thanks for the post, I checked it and it seems like not only tower are underused and underpowered, but some counter are quite a problem too. Though if you see a Cybwork Lane, other Tower could be of use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are two examples of the defenses that I do find very lackluster. I would add more but this is what I can think off currently.

1. Arcane Barriers. With NM4's cost of 20 DU increased to 30 DU when the Trials update came out while also Harbinger's passive was not made in to a shard. There's not really much of a difference between it and Spike Blockade. And the fact the Arcane Barriers are a tad bit shorter than Spike Blockades in length, obviously peeps would go for Spikes.

 2. Blaze Balloons. It's cost of 60 DU and also it's effectiveness compared to Auras or Dryad "Traps", or even projectile towers also plus the way Onslaught works really shows that this defense is really never a viable choice. Even with it's phoenix shard, it's still not viable.

So the point is these defenses aren't shining as a viable stuff compared to the current metas. The two examples above are actually quite low. There are better defenses but they still aren't really shining as much as the metas. And it's really outshining. And yeah, I'm starting to see the diversity getting less.

Would definitely agree to at least give the lackluster defenses a good reason to be used (could be by buffing - which is definitely needed and also by giving new situations, hopefully not hard counters). As they are really not worth being dusted off currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Here are two examples of the defenses that I do find very lackluster. I would add more but this is what I can think off currently.

1. Arcane Barriers. With NM4's cost of 20 DU increased to 30 DU when the Trials update came out while also Harbinger's passive was not made in to a shard. There's not really much of a difference between it and Spike Blockade. And the fact the Arcane Barriers are a tad bit shorter than Spike Blockades in length, obviously peeps would go for Spikes.

 2. Blaze Balloons. It's cost of 60 DU and also it's effectiveness compared to Auras or Dryad "Traps", or even projectile towers also plus the way Onslaught works really shows that this defense is really never a viable choice. Even with it's phoenix shard, it's still not viable.

So the point is these defenses aren't shining as a viable stuff compared to the current metas. The two examples above are actually quite low. There are better defenses but they still aren't really shining as much as the metas. And it's really outshining. And yeah, I'm starting to see the diversity getting less.

Would definitely agree to at least give the lackluster defenses a good reason to be used (could be by buffing - which is definitely needed and also by giving new situations, hopefully not hard counters). As they are really not worth being dusted off currently.

If you had the choice of doing what you would want, what would you do ? Changing Shards ? Changing the defense itself ? I will add those ideas to the mix if you let me do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@AltartikusPG quote:

If you had the choice of doing what you would want, what would you do ? Changing Shards ? Changing the defense itself ? I will add those ideas to the mix if you let me do it.

I'm not really a balance expert here but let's see....

For Arcane Barriers, if the Harbinger's passive returns as a shard, it could bring up the competition with Spike Blockades due to it's offensive nature. If you know about the Apprentice's hero shard "Meteor Rain", you know what I mean. I actually do notice that the barriers give off knockbacks to enemies. Maybe up that too and we could pretty much have a very offensive blockade. Perhaps for balance, it's hp could be lowered for tradeoffs in it's offensiveness.

Another idea is that the Arcane barriers could be a projectile empowerment blockade. It would work quite similar to Torchwood from PvZ. It could have shimmers aura to denote the range of it's empowerment. That way, it could really stand out from spikes. Where Spikes is defensive, the Arcane Barrier is offensive.

For blaze balloons....to be honest, I really have no idea, a tripwire function might help, but the trick here is to avoid turning traps into auras. And auras's AoE function is what made that really viable. Kinda need something new and crazy for traps like Blaze Balloon to get it's thunder back....Though yeah, lowering the DU would really help too.

Just some ideas here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Monk

Boost aura drop to 20 DU

Apprentice

Increase flamethrower base range to +50%

Frost tower +25% health at base and +25% range, and where the hell is my cloaking mod?

Huntress

Halve the cost of blaze balloon

Double the trigger and damage range of explosive traps and reduce damage drop off with range drastically

Squire

Increase ballista attack rate at base by 75%

Abyss Lord

Rework archers to allow placement to face both archers one way if wanted

Initiate

Swap flame aura for the old lightning aura

Adept

Swap flamethrower for the old flameburst tower

Dryad

Remove third hornet to bring her in line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

Monk

Boost aura drop to 20 DU

Apprentice

Increase flamethrower base range to +50%

Frost tower +25% health at base and +25% range, and where the hell is my cloaking mod?

Huntress

Halve the cost of blaze balloon

Double the trigger and damage range of explosive traps and reduce damage drop off with range drastically

Squire

Increase ballista attack rate at base by 75%

Abyss Lord

Rework archers to allow placement to face both archers one way if wanted

Initiate

Swap flame aura for the old lightning aura

Adept

Swap flamethrower for the old flameburst tower

Dryad

Remove third hornet to bring her in line

Thanks for the advice ! I think most of them are good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skeletal archers native piercing + range and speed up. Man I miss these little dudes, they used to be decent a long time ago...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of archers: relevant

The biggest thing that hurts diversity IMO has little to do with the defenses themselves. Of course you have some that stink for one reason or another, but a lot of the problem here is because of a mob or a mutator. For instance, explosive traps and proton beams are very solid but are seldom used because cyborks are everywhere and any tenacity that isn't perfect isn't worth using. Harpoons would be used more too if vanguards didn't still eat the bolts even with piercer equipped. Walls have multiple hard-counters from mutators and hex throwers exist.

Cyborks, Vanguards, CB, HS, Cursi-kaze, and a couple more (although thank god Geodes are negligable now) are very frequently encountered in gameplay. Versatility trumps all due to this. It is a huge wasted effort to go crazy trying to set up all these defenses for use in a smaller selection of scenarios v.s. using something that works well for the vast majority. This is why bees are spammed, this is why WM is spammed, this is why PDT is spammed. This is also why FA spam was and is still popular today. If this stuff was encountered in much smaller amounts than I believe a good chunk of this issue would disappear. I feel strongly that if you didn't run into all these hard counters so frequently that they may actually fulfill their intended purpose.

I was gonna rant on some more about the role of shard acquisition and ancient power resets in this, but I need to stop myself here. I would definitely start at looking at mobs, schedules, mutators, and the frequency of them all if you want to improve diversity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Swap flamethrower for the old flameburst tower"

"For Arcane Barriers, if the Harbinger's passive returns as a shard, it could bring up the competition with Spike Blockades due to it's offensive nature. If you know about the Apprentice's hero shard "Meteor Rain", you know what I mean. I actually do notice that the barriers give off knockbacks to enemies. Maybe up that too and we could pretty much have a very offensive blockade. Perhaps for balance, it's hp could be lowered for tradeoffs in it's offensiveness."

OMG, yes pls trendy! i miss both of them so much! every time, i see my once beloved apprentice, i think back to these great times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

boost auras and nodes are in dire need of improvement the boost they actually give is minimal compared to their cost and that drain aura mod does little to nothing. would love to see every tower have some sort of use we need more mods that slow, stun or knockback enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm.  Let's pretend I'm lord-tyrant of Trendy for a day.  

Squire: 

Cannon ball: +10% damage, 50% native pierce

Ballista: +20% projectile width, 50% native pierce

Training Dummy: add a shard that causes it to periodically knockup and displace nearby enemeis when spinning at full speed

Mage:

Flame: Range and arc +10%.  Able to target flying enemies that enter its attack range.

Blockade: +50% explosion radius

Huntress:

Explosive Trap: +50% radius, +20% damage

Geyser: -10 DU, 2 second slow upon landing

Blaze Balloon: -20 DU, +100% trigger radius, +20% range.  Need a reason to build them instead of the much more reliable flame aura =/

Monk:

Boost aura: -10 DU, +5% (additive) bonus to nearby defenses

Abyss Lord: 

Orc: +20% HP

Archers: +40% damage, +20% attack speed, homing arrows.  

Collosus: +30% damage

EV2: 

Proton Beam: Immunity to Cyborc (and they won't waste time attacking it) when built in chains of 4 or fewer.

Buff beam: Stronger... I don't actually know how useful this is or isn't atm.

Lavamancer: 

Fissure: Remove that accursed icon!!  +20% damage and range (to make up for the fact it can't attack air, making it currently worthless.)

Oil: +200% trigger and aoe, +100% attack speed.  

Mystic: 

Snaking Sands: +20% trigger

Sand Viper: Attacks 2 native, Attacks 4 with split.  -15% damage.  Alternatively, +40% damage

Obelisk: No actual changes, I love the tower as is.  Just plz make it more clear what all it's doing.  Also, please stop it from smiting test dummies in terreria ;_;

Healing tower: 0 DU, -80% damage, targets 2 enemies at once, invulnerable.  Limit one per PLAYER (not one per hero as Obelisk is.)

Dryad:

Tree: Make it a pylon defense type like you said.  plz.  No pathing blocking, no HP, but still let us jump on it =O

Harpy: 50% native Pierce, +10% damage, unique shard stronger to some extent.  

Nimbus: new unique shard: a mixture of range and movement speed but won't stack with other range shards: +100% move speed and about as much range as deadly strikes.  

Slime pit: +20% move speed.  +50% higher jumps, so they can ignore terrain a little more.  

Initiate: Replace one of her towers with a unique tower

Adept: 

Hailstorm: +50% projectile speed, +30% range, +10% Attack speed.  Give skyguard a run for its money!!!



All of this is just because I want the unused defenses to be brought up to where the currently shining ones are.  I think that would be more fun than nerfing the really good ones.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...