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chubbyninja89

Why does the skill point system still suck?

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I'm just gonna reply to this and then I'm done or maybe not. Depends. As yeah, this is going back and forth.

@chubbyninja89 quote:

Who are you to say that it's only me who thinks this is stupid?

Have you some of the other people who are agreeing with me on this topic?

Why do you think I said that this could use some tweaks? But still, we're all cool here with the system, and again, (mostly) agreed it could use some tweaks. The way you said about it sounded to me that you perceive it as an abomination. Now why do you think I said that it's only you? 

@chubbyninja89 quote:

I'm talking about how stupid it was for the devs to make these damn 3 skill trees instead of just 2, which would've allowed for hybrid builds without a bunch of stupidity.

This is the skills for the Squire.

That's just lazy.

Those extra things in the "utility" section are just defense and hero, except that they were pointlessly moved to a third section. And that's so stupid.

If you want to make your hero to go for either straight full DPS or Tanking or Defenses, more power to you, or if you want to make a mixed hybrid build, then that's fine too.

But the devs should just let us put our points where we want to and not try to force us to play whatever way we want, or at the very least return it to just two types of skills, that way the skill points can just leapfrog each other.

Like Exglint said, this is designed to be played long term. A long grind. You're still in the early part. You're not meant to feel the power this early. 

Back of those days even when I'm at the early part of the grind, I have no problem with this. I still just can't understand what's so back-breaking about this. If this were to bother us really greatly, many complaints about it would've flooded this forum as other problems did. But the fact is that it isn't.

And the real problem I'm having is the fact that it's feeling like it's taking forever to get any of my defense or abilities to anywhere near as strong as I'd want.

Like I said previously. Ascension levels is just a boost and a sense of progression. The real power comes from gears, shards and M.O.D.S. If you want to get your stuff to as strong as you want, it's best to focus on these three elements. If we're to be heavily dependent on Ascensions and I mean really dependent, we would have a way much harder time for Mastery as it caps asc points.

The Utility section only really works for the Barbarian and Gunwitch, since they don't have defenses to worry about.

If it were to go your way of either mode and dumping all points on either, it will not work. Mostly for the barbarian. His ability works best in combos, so going a full "Fury-only" or "Wrath-only" build is never a good move.

And finally. By no means I'm affiliated with Trendy Entertainment whatsoever. If I am, I would be in red, having a TE logo and have a job title instead of being in black, having an eternia crystal and the "Champion of Etheria Rank".

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


I guess you didn't see this

05850A68B5E8B62C83C612A7F00C6E08B18B7A9B


All those things that are in the Utility section are just things that were previously in the Hero or Defense bonuses

I wouldn't mind the Utility part being there if it was optional and if it actually gave some bonuses or changed some effects of abilities or defenses to add some, you know, more utility to the characters. Something like changing  the Shield Slam thing the Squire has to be a charge that barrels through and knockbacks enemies. Just something more unique and special and not just pre-existing bonuses.


Until this nonsense gets changed, I find it rather unacceptable to just put up with a stupid part of a game.

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Those range gambits are the 2nd most important thing for defenses after defense speed. The crit chance and damage are also a nice bump in damage even if you dont build for crit. As for the hero, the crit chance and damage are the 2nd most important and if you are running one of the powerful Ability Power builds then the increased mana pool is also important. Truth be told the damage and health nodes in the tree are rather weak when it comes to adding to defenses, and the added ability power to hero abilities is the same. Hero health is nice to have but not totally needed as each point is now 4 times stronger than it used to be and you can get it on gear.

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@Exglint quote:

Those range gambits are the 2nd most important thing for defenses after defense speed. The crit chance and damage are also a nice bump in damage even if you dont build for crit. As for the hero, the crit chance and damage are the 2nd most important and if you are running one of the powerful Ability Power builds then the increased mana pool is also important. Truth be told the damage and health nodes in the tree are rather weak when it comes to adding to defenses, and the added ability power to hero abilities is the same. Hero health is nice to have but not totally needed as each point is now 4 times stronger than it used to be and you can get it on gear.

I know right?


Those bonuses are just Hero and Defense skills stupidly put into a separate category.


And I really don't mean to beat a dead horse by saying this again, but the whole system would just work far better if they made the Utility section not only optional, but actually have things that would actually add some real utility to the characters. Things like adding different effects to abilities or changing up how some abilities work.

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What I mean is I agree that there should be the third category and that at this current time, the asc tree should remain unchanged. There has been nothing said in this thread that has made me think there would be any benefit from having only two sections and the way you spend your points would remain the same even if you combined the extra nodes from the utility tree into the other two. 

If anything I believe it would be a disadvantage to have two trees as currently depending on how you are gearing the hero you get to spend points on that task twice. Example if you are building a defense builder then you spend points like this: Hero, Def, Def, Hero, Def, Def, Hero, Def, Def. The other way around,  if you are making a DPS then your points go the other way: Hero, Def, Hero, Hero, Def, Hero, Hero, Def, Hero. Once you max out one defense you can start moving onto the next then after all defenses you can start going hybrid or once you max out the hero you can start making it hybrid.

If there were only two trees then you start having to make choices and compromises, do you go defense speed first or range gambit or crit chance or crit dmg, after your first choice you still have the remaining three and thats not even including the 140 points worth of either defense health or damage. Over time the three trees ends up being better overall for points spent.

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@Exglint quote:

What I mean is I agree that there should be the third category and that at this current time, the asc tree should remain unchanged. There has been nothing said in this thread that has made me think there would be any benefit from having only two sections and the way you spend your points would remain the same even if you combined the extra nodes from the utility tree into the other two. 

If anything I believe it would be a disadvantage to have two trees as currently depending on how you are gearing the hero you get to spend points on that task twice. Example if you are building a defense builder then you spend points like this: Hero, Def, Def, Hero, Def, Def, Hero, Def, Def. The other way around,  if you are making a DPS then your points go the other way: Hero, Def, Hero, Hero, Def, Hero, Hero, Def, Hero. Once you max out one defense you can start moving onto the next then after all defenses you can start going hybrid or once you max out the hero you can start making it hybrid.

If there were only two trees then you start having to make choices and compromises, do you go defense speed first or range gambit or crit chance or crit dmg, after your first choice you still have the remaining three and thats not even including the 140 points worth of either defense health or damage. Over time the three trees ends up being better overall for points spent.


I personally think that if they must divide the skill points, then it should just be Hero, Defense, Hero, Defense. At least that way they'd be simply leapfrogging the skill points instead of the having to wait 3 levels for a single skill point.

But I'd much rather see them just allow us to point the skill points wherever we want to. That way we'd actually have choice in how to level our characters.


And I still stand by that the Utility section should be optional and actually have things that change some of the abilities or defenses. Then we'd actually get some, you know, utility out of it.

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@chubbyninja89 quote:



And I still stand by that the Utility section should be optional and actually have things that change some of the abilities or defenses. Then we'd actually get some, you know, utility out of it.

By changing abilities and or defense it is no longer utility, it is modifying. What it gives now is utility, run speed, more ability resource, defense range and so on. The utility category has exactly what it needs to have in it. What it doesn't have is a cap on points that go into it. Once points are maxed on everything it should no longer become a permanent void of your third point. Then you would have only a 2 point system, hero then defense. 

I agree the skill point system is not perfect, but to say that our skill points should give things like fire and heavy cannonball is a bit reaching.

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Every single skill categorized under utility can 100% unquestionably fit under either hero or tower. All I want is for the the utility skills to be correctly categorized into their respective hero or tower areas.

It would give us more freedom to spec our heroes how we want them, and it would be the final nail in the coffin for having separate DPS/tower heroes.

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The single most annoying thing for me, is seeing unused skill points accumulate on a maxed out tree. 

Why even get points for it, if it´s maxed out?  It´s  unrewarding to see the useless pile of points grow bigger. Feels unfinished and wasteful IMO.

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@gigazelle quote:

Every single skill categorized under utility can 100% unquestionably fit under either hero or tower. All I want is for the the utility skills to be correctly categorized into their respective hero or tower areas.

It would give us more freedom to spec our heroes how we want them, and it would be the final nail in the coffin for having separate DPS/tower heroes.

Dude, high five or fist bump.


That is exactly what I'm talking about!


I would honestly be 100% ok with the Utility category being there, if it was optional and actually changed up things for the characters, instead of just being Hero or Defense upgrades stupidly put into another category.


And even if it was the whole hybrid class thing with just two main categories, I'd probably be ok with that because it would at least simply be leapfrogging with skill points.


But ultimately, I'd just rather be able to put my skill points wherever I want to rather being restricted with how I want to make my characters.



And as another issue I found.


What was wrong with being able to just play any Incursion or anything else and just having the difficulty being able to be made harder?


I thought all I'd have to do is simply complete the first two Incursions, but I still couldn't go to next level of incursions.


That is so stupid.


I think they've really overcomplicated the  game and many of its mechanics.

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@MaJean quote:

The single most annoying thing for me, is seeing unused skill points accumulate on a maxed out tree. 

Why even get points for it, if it´s maxed out?  It´s  unrewarding to see the useless pile of points grow bigger. Feels unfinished and wasteful IMO.

That's a pretty good point, and the reason I feel like this whole "Endless leveling" thing is kind of dumb.


I personally think that making the max level 100, or maybe as high as 200, could work, with either 1 or 2 skill points per level. That way you'd still have a leveling component to the game, without it getting dumb.


But I personally think that if they gave each skill like 100 to 150 levels and you wouldn't be able to just max out all the stuff without only being able to focus on one or two upgrades.

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@MaJean quote:

The single most annoying thing for me, is seeing unused skill points accumulate on a maxed out tree. 

Why even get points for it, if it´s maxed out?  It´s  unrewarding to see the useless pile of points grow bigger. Feels unfinished and wasteful IMO.

Yeah, that's mostly my only issue with the utility system. It gets maxed out too fast. If hero health's moved over there, It'll definitely help.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@MaJean quote:

The single most annoying thing for me, is seeing unused skill points accumulate on a maxed out tree. 

Why even get points for it, if it´s maxed out?  It´s  unrewarding to see the useless pile of points grow bigger. Feels unfinished and wasteful IMO.

Yeah, that's mostly my only issue with the utility system. It gets maxed out too fast. If hero health's moved over there, It'll definitely help.

They should just put all the stuff that's in the Utility part to the Hero and Defense stuff and just make it an optional tree that actually changes up some stuff for that particular character.

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@Okielos quote:


@chubbyninja89 quote:

And I still stand by that the Utility section should be optional and actually have things that change some of the abilities or defenses. Then we'd actually get some, you know, utility out of it.

By changing abilities and or defense it is no longer utility, it is modifying. What it gives now is utility, run speed, more ability resource, defense range and so on. The utility category has exactly what it needs to have in it. What it doesn't have is a cap on points that go into it. Once points are maxed on everything it should no longer become a permanent void of your third point. Then you would have only a 2 point system, hero then defense. 

I agree the skill point system is not perfect, but to say that our skill points should give things like fire and heavy cannonball is a bit reaching.

Anything would be better than just separating obviously Hero and Defense bonuses into a separate category.

And while I do love the Barbarian in all his face smashing glory, the 3 separate skill categories doesn't work as effectively for any other  character except the Gunwitch.

I just think that they need to fix t he Utility category and make it actually useful and not just a pointless 3rd section,.

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@Nefhith quote:

Trust me. This is so much better than what we had before. It was not cool to having to make 4 dryads, one for each tower and an additional one for DPS (two if you wanted a hero damage and ability power one). It also applied to *all* heroes.

You still need 4 or 5 Dryad's...

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So... I'm a bit late to this thread, but it was a fun read.
I can see both sides, yes, everything in Utility CAN be placed under Offense or Defense,
but I also think the system is fine where it's at right now, it can be tweaked, but it doesn't have to.


Then, to OP.
Please watch your language. No I do not mean swearing, I mean how you are saying everything.
The Devs should do this, this is bull***, that should be changed by the Devs, Devs are stupid, what a BS, stupid game, etc etc.

By talking this way, you are presenting your opinion as a fact, try changing it to:
I would like to see this changed for that because this and this, I don't like this system because this and this.

What you're saying is your opinion, they are not facts. Don't treat them as facts.


Then 2 more things because I'm me and I have to say something about it.

One. The whole point of genderswaps are to have the same hero, but of a different gender (get the name?)
It's nice that something is changed in them, but they're not new heroes, that wasn't the plan to begin with. It's from DD1, it's not new, that doesn't make the idea bad. The revamped maps aren't bad, are they? A lot of time and effort still went into creating them. It's not laziness, it's called trying something new.

Two. You spelled Hailstorm Tower wrong, you said Hailstone Tower.


That's it, have a nice day everyone!

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@luuk_111 quote:

Then, to OP.
Please watch your language. No I do not mean swearing, I mean how you are saying everything.
The Devs should do this, this is bull***, that should be changed by the Devs, Devs are stupid, what a BS, stupid game, etc etc.

By talking this way, you are presenting your opinion as a fact, try changing it to:
I would like to see this changed for that because this and this, I don't like this system because this and this.

What you're saying is your opinion, they are not facts. Don't treat them as facts.

Yeah, it was pretty uncalled for. I was holding back during my talk with him.

@luuk_111 quote:

Then 2 more things because I'm me and I have to say something about it.

One. The whole point of genderswaps are to have the same hero, but of a different gender (get the name?)
It's nice that something is changed in them, but they're not new heroes, that wasn't the plan to begin with. It's from DD1, it's not new, that doesn't make the idea bad. The revamped maps aren't bad, are they? A lot of time and effort still went into creating them. It's not laziness, it's called trying something new.

Interesting point with the DD1 map remakes there. Can't argue with it.

I can see that the prestigious chi stomp mods could be setting the foundation into solving this problem.

Though I still wish them to be more unique there. Something at least a wee bit different from the OG. Arc Lightning, Chi Stomp and Hailstorm tower for example nailed it. Since we're having the hybrid system instead of the hero/buildet system now, wouldn't hurt to have more distinguishability.

To those who're thinking flameburst and serenity aura, after some thinking, I can now see that they might not work and why. The World Tree is basically a basic serenity while cannonballs with fire servo is practically a flameburst. The name is still cool though. Prehaps they could return (although in a different iteration). Hailstorm did prove that the same defenses could be altered in different but similar ways.

Or yeah, again, more new mods that'll eventually create new builds that'll make both versions distinguishable.

Cheers!

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