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chubbyninja89

Why does the skill point system still suck?

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This is something that's really keeping me from actually playing and enjoying the game.


It's the fact that the devs stupidly decided to divide the skill "trees" into 3 separate parts and force us to put points where we might not want to.


Seriously. Why would you guys do that, and still keep it that way? And the level grind is ridiculous.


It's once every 3 levels that you get a skill point in a particular skill tree, and that's really stupid.


You devs should seriously just  simply let us put all of our points wherever we want, because they're our characters not yours. If I want to make my second Squire focus completely on his cannonball towers damage and range, I should be able to.


Or you guys should just rework the skill system back to the two skill types of Personal /Character and Defenses. That way it'd simply be a point in either skill type every other level, and you guys have no idea how big of a difference that would make for people.


I mean with the expanded options of the skills, there'd still be tons of options for each class.


You guys should seriously work on that.



And just as a side note.


Why are the Adept and Initiate so lack luster in what they can do?


I mean, the Initiate pretty much has the exact same abilities and defenses as the Monk, except for the Talisman of Empowerment. I mean, at least the Adept has a single defense and ability difference from the Apprentice, even though the Arch Lightning seems to be pretty much a slightly different Arcane Volley.


I mean, if you want to make new characters, make them new and not just a girl versions of existing classes. 


I'd be a lot more interested in trying out the Adept and Initiate if they both only had a single ability and/or defense in common with their male counterparts.

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Trust me. This is so much better than what we had before. It was not cool to having to make 4 dryads, one for each tower and an additional one for DPS (two if you wanted a hero damage and ability power one). It also applied to *all* heroes.

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I'm not opposed to the way it works now, but I think you should stop getting ascension points in trees that are maxed out and instead get them in trees you can spend them in. For heroes like the gunwitch you can max out the right side incredibly early and every ascension 3rd level literally has no impact.

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@Nefhith quote:

Trust me. This is so much better than what we had before. It was not cool to having to make 4 dryads, one for each tower and an additional one for DPS (two if you wanted a hero damage and ability power one). It also applied to *all* heroes.

Or, you can just focus on defenses with your 1 Dryad.


Did you actually play the game before the Accession or whatever big update, which was  the one where they screwed up how skill points work?


I'll just explain how it use to work.


There use to be basic stats you could put points into. They were things like Defense Attack or Damage, and health and range and speed and so on. And there were the Hero/Character attack, health, and so on.

It was a simple but effective system.


What the devs should've done was to just take that system and expand it like they did, but at least leave it just two skill categories instead of three.

And like I said, it feels better if you know you'll get a skill point for character or defenses every other level, rather than every 3 levels.

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@Plasma quote:

I'm not opposed to the way it works now, but I think you should stop getting ascension points in trees that are maxed out and instead get them in trees you can spend them in. For heroes like the gunwitch you can max out the right side incredibly early and every ascension 3rd level literally has no impact.

Well, that's probably why they should've at least kept it to character and defense skills like they had before, but expanded upon.


I actually really like how they expanded the skills to have more options, but it's the breaking it into 3 categories that really pisses me off. Because it worked fine before, as simple as it was, and it shouldn't just been an expansion of that system.


I know I've said this already, but I guess I can't help really repeating it.


The whole getting restricted to just where you can put your points into is stupid enough, but also only getting a point in one of the categories every 3 levels just ruins its all the more.

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@chubbyninja89 quote:


@Nefhith quote:

Trust me. This is so much better than what we had before. It was not cool to having to make 4 dryads, one for each tower and an additional one for DPS (two if you wanted a hero damage and ability power one). It also applied to *all* heroes.

Or, you can just focus on defenses with your 1 Dryad.


Did you actually play the game before the Accession or whatever big update, which was  the one where they screwed up how skill points work?


I'll just explain how it use to work.


There use to be basic stats you could put points into. They were things like Defense Attack or Damage, and health and range and speed and so on. And there were the Hero/Character attack, health, and so on.

It was a simple but effective system.


What the devs should've done was to just take that system and expand it like they did, but at least leave it just two skill categories instead of three.

And like I said, it feels better if you know you'll get a skill point for character or defenses every other level, rather than every 3 levels.

Mate I used to work since closed alpha (pre-wipeageddon). You had to have a character with spheres for a particular defense, built with stats for that defense, and prior to that you needed those terrible passives (gotta love my aura huntress!).

What we got now is So. Much. Better. than what we had before.

This system is part of a whole, bigger system that unified DPS and defenses. They split armor (head, chest, glove, boots, weapon/shield) and relics into hero and tower stats, respectively. They also made ascension like that so your hero had a side-growth for dps and towers, and make it grow equally. If they made it like you say, they might as well go back to the old system and let us put armor with defense stats because that would make towers much stronger.

The only issue I have with Ascension is the third tree, which feels like it was "well, we have all these stats we don't know what to do with them... let's dump them into a third tree". Having hero/tower crit, together with tower range and hero mana and speed in a tree is no bueno. Defeats the purpose of the system, and they should move those stats to the other two, or make a 4th tree with "utilities" (pls trendy don't do that last one).

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It should have been so simple, Hero section and Tower Section, three sections has never made sense but it is now heavily ingrained in the way things are.

Still don't know why I can't have a range gambit as EV2.

Ascension points could do with a rework but don't see it change fundamentally, although they did that with crit to DP recently.

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@Nefhith quote:

Those are somewhat my thoughts exactly.


The devs should've just made it the two trees instead of the stupid 3.


On a fundamental level, people will feel like leapfrogging between two skill trees as just getting something right after another, while being forced to wait between 3 skill trees to get just 1 point feels like a stupid grind rather than


The only class for who the 3 skill trees could possibly work well for is the Barbarian, since he has no defenses and is all about fighting by himself.

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@Fozzie quote:

It should have been so simple, Hero section and Tower Section, three sections has never made sense but it is now heavily ingrained in the way things are.

Still don't know why I can't have a range gambit as EV2.

Ascension points could do with a rework but don't see it change fundamentally, although they did that with crit to DP recently.

Well, like I just told Nefhith, I think that the only character who the 3 sections would work effectively for is the Barbarian, since he doesn't have any defenses of his own. It would actually work  for him.

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@chubbyninja89 quote:



Is that even the company that makes this game?


That page looked more like a car company than a video game development one.

Spam troller. Never click on links from onesies. And run your anti virus.

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i actually like the skill point system.

we already had way worse stuff and its quiet easy to understand. also it makes hybrids finally viable. i play since 2015 and trust me, having defense stats in your armor and weapon sucks. now you dont have to waste a character slot for just 1 duty and when you have enough ascension, you can build everything and still dps with just 1 hero.

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Went through and edited two comments to remove a spambot's post and links (that's why the quotes are empty on two posts).

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@FridgeD quote:

i actually like the skill point system.

we already had way worse stuff and its quiet easy to understand. also it makes hybrids finally viable. i play since 2015 and trust me, having defense stats in your armor and weapon sucks. now you dont have to waste a character slot for just 1 duty and when you have enough ascension, you can build everything and still dps with just 1 hero.

Well, that's where you're wrong.


The game now forces players to have to put points into defenses and "utility". So you can't just go all DPS with your character like you use to be able to. And that's not ok, no matter who you try to spin it.


And you forget that there were also items that buffed heroes and not just the defenses.


And I for one liked being able to kit my defense forcused heroes out  with defense gear. It made their defenses really feel like I had put a lot of work and effort into them, to make them as deadly or tough as possible.


The system would've just been ten times better if it was just Hero and Defenses sections, because having to wait 3 levels for a single skill points is just plain stupid.

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I am okay with the 1-2-3-1-2-3 nature of skill point gains going into respective trees.  

I just want to echo the sentiment that, if a tree is completed, you shouldn't continue to gain points in that tree; points should skip and go to the next uncompleted tree.  

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@darksteelhyren quote:

I just want to echo the sentiment that, if a tree is completed, you shouldn't continue to gain points in that tree; points should skip and go to the next uncompleted tree.  

While that would be nice, I think I could see the complication in that as in what's going to happen when all of the tree is completed (Although that would really take a long time to complete.)

Though having hero skill tree and defense skill tree actually does makes more sense. If they want to still keep utility, at least move hero health over there (which the barb got that right). There's a reason on why the "hero" skill tree is called "offensive" currently.

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As to the OP...

To be honest, I think I like the hybrid system better. While the builder/hero system does seem nice as there are reasons to use your costumes for. But it can fill up a lot of things as more content goes by. You only have 64 hero slots as max slots. When more content that brings in more builds and heroes arrives, it can fill up all 64 slots.

The hybrid system allows more stuffs to be in one hero. For example, I have a monk with the offensive boost aura build, and I also have another monk with Boost aura's boosting build. With both monks, I still have room for 2 more different types of builds for the other 3 defenses (which hopefully future content brings) instead of creating 6 more monks. Not to mention the hybrid also allows adding a hero build instead of adding one or two more monks into the fray.

Now to Gender Swaps.

That concept is from DD1. But, yeah, I would definitely agree that they should have more new stuff. Them as of now, would work back at the pre-trials days. With the hybrid system, it doesn't make much sense for that to happen now.

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@darksteelhyren quote:

I am okay with the 1-2-3-1-2-3 nature of skill point gains going into respective trees.  

I just want to echo the sentiment that, if a tree is completed, you shouldn't continue to gain points in that tree; points should skip and go to the next uncompleted tree.  

Well that's the thing.


The trees are anything but "completed".


And what I mean that that in this context is that the "Utility" skills are just skills taken from the hero or defense skill sections.


It's not really adding another interesting layer to the game, but a needless one.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

 While that would be nice, I think I could see the complication in that as in what's going to happen when all of the tree is completed (Although that would really take a long time to complete.)

Though having hero skill tree and defense skill tree actually does makes more sense. If they want to still keep utility, at least move hero health over there (which the barb got that right). There's a reason on why the "hero" skill tree is called "offensive" currently.

That's kind of what I'm talking about.


The only character who the whole 3 skill sections would work for is the Barbarian, since he has no defenses of his own.


And please don't get me started on the laziness of the Adept and Initiate.


If they're going to make new content, they should actually make new content and not just reskin the old and call it new.

At least the Adept has actually has a difference with a single tower and ability, that being the Hailstone tower and bubble shield thing, the Initiate is basically just a girl version of the monk but with renamed abilities, that are basically the same as before.

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@chubbyninja89 quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

 While that would be nice, I think I could see the complication in that as in what's going to happen when all of the tree is completed (Although that would really take a long time to complete.)

Though having hero skill tree and defense skill tree actually does makes more sense. If they want to still keep utility, at least move hero health over there (which the barb got that right). There's a reason on why the "hero" skill tree is called "offensive" currently.

That's kind of what I'm talking about.


The only character who the whole 3 skill sections would work for is the Barbarian, since he has no defenses of his own.


And please don't get me started on the laziness of the Adept and Initiate.


If they're going to make new content, they should actually make new content and not just reskin the old and call it new.

At least the Adept has actually has a difference with a single tower and ability, that being the Hailstone tower and bubble shield thing, the Initiate is basically just a girl version of the monk but with renamed abilities, that are basically the same as before.

But thats what Gender swap heros are. The same character but a different gender. Is it new? Yeah a new female monk. 

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@chubbyninja89 quote:

The only character who the whole 3 skill sections would work for is the Barbarian, since he has no defenses of his own.

Gunwitch

@chubbyninja89 quote:

The trees are anything but "completed".

My ascension trees are maxed out on all heroes. That sounds completed to me.

I don't really see the issue here as your ascension is a global level and it only goes up over time and the only thing that makes it lower is Ancient Power which is something you shouldn't be doing if you are just going to minimums. DD1 had levels that were per hero and you had to play each hero actively to gain levels to equip gear, both of which you needed to have strong defenses or dps. If anything this system is far above and beyond what we used to have. The previous system was equally bad as you needed a hero for each defense or dps and there was no option to multi spec heroes.

Along with the new party bonus of 99% extra xp at four players makes it even easier to gain levels and you get one level per chaos 7 map which is way more than we used to get. All of this is so much better than we used to have and if you do ancient power you get even more bonuses to xp gains to make it even easier. I mean, how much more do you want to make this less of a grind than we used to have to do.

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Initiate I agree with 100%.  That was a lazy reskin lol.  I did buy her, but only because I was running out of space for all my defender medals.  

Adept I don't.  Arc lightning is brand new.  Bubble is brand new.  Hailstorm is brand new (even if it's worse than SGT).  I've heard that as a combat hero she's actually pretty strong.  And she's definitely a great tool for players struggling with C5's assassins, just bubble at your feet when you hear them coming and you're saved.

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@chubbyninja89 quote:

That's kind of what I'm talking about.


The only character who the whole 3 skill sections would work for is the Barbarian, since he has no defenses of his own.


And please don't get me started on the laziness of the Adept and Initiate.


If they're going to make new content, they should actually make new content and not just reskin the old and call it new.

At least the Adept has actually has a difference with a single tower and ability, that being the Hailstone tower and bubble shield thing, the Initiate is basically just a girl version of the monk but with renamed abilities, that are basically the same as before.

I was expecting an attempt to counter my points on hybrid heroes but oh well.

To be fair, Initiate's Talisman of Empowerment is something new. Though I still would prefer whatever's that belong to the monk be replaced with something new.

And I would have to agree with darksteelhyren here on the Adept. Her unique stuff have peeps preferring to use her rather than Apprentice. But yeah, it still would be nice to have her stuffs that belongs to the apprentice replaced with something different.

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@Martin Arcainess quote:

But thats what Gender swap heros are. The same character but a different gender. Is it new? Yeah a new female monk. 


Well, that's just stupidly lazy. 


Just making a girl version of an existing character is stupid because they're not trying to add a character that's somewhat similar to the Monk or Apprentice  that's their own thing, but just going "Girl Power! Whoo!".


They should've made the Adept and Initiate have some similarities with their male counterparts, but have been a different take on them, with different abilities and defenses.

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