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024noi

Beeeeees man bees

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So lots of talk about nerfing bees. Here's an idea i haven't seen posted. Make bees killable. Not the hives, the bees themselves. Hives produce 1 bee every few seconds up to cap. If u go corrupt, the extra bee now has to be created by the hive taking a couple seconds. Mobs with mods that do area affect damage do damage to bees. If they die, they have to wait to spawn. 1 bee  every second or 2. This would force u to NOT use bees in every lane and any bees that wander into other lanes where they can be killed ... Back to the spawn Q. Though in all fairness, any changes should wait till marcos makes it to 999. Go Marcos!!!!!

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Who knows what you mean by "lots of talk."  Who knows.  You posted this about three weeks too late.  The "nerf" is happening, already in the works, already laid down as to how it is going to come about.  For those of us who appreciate using the bees, we appreciate your support, however, this post is well beyond being too late.

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I hate the idea of nerfing bees though i do understand it. The problem with bees isnt their attack power it is their natural range which really makes them stronger than they need to be in my opinion. There are other towers which are as strong or stronger people just wanted to point fingers at the dryad. Honestly though i wish instead of nerfing a tower which everyone seems to like why not catch the rest of them up so we like those ones too?

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This was my point the whole time.  There was no logical explanation for nerfing the bees alone.  The bees, to me, are a matter of convenience  Every since Jose spoke about nerfing the bees, let's just say it like this, "reducing their current level of effectiveness", I created three other towers that have exceeded in the dps of the bees.  Whenever a nerf gets spoken into existence, remove the medallion/mark/totem from said tower, and put the relic on the new tower.  

Devs, I get the need to nerf something, such as weapons manufacturer/shocking revelations combination (boosting this to C8 was relatively a permanent stun, yes?), but nerfing a tower just because everyone uses it and you did not intend for the game to be played this was is a poor excuse.  It's not like we have over 100 maps to choose from.  When you find a way to beat maps, and are grinding, you tend to go with the quickest route.  Over 100 maps, not having to switch to other heroes to lay down towers can save you anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, which, over the course of the life of this game, adds up.

Someone is going to come up with the new META and post the video on it.  Are you then going to nerf that?  Make Hell maps, add a lot more maps, make c8-c10, but please, stop believing that nerfing something that people find convenient is the best answer.

I know three cats off of the top of my head that used the bees with a high level of success.  Each of us came up with a different tower that supercede the functionality of the bees.  For example, Adjantis mentioned the range.  True, the range is an asset.  What hurts about the range is the variance in lane changes that the bees have.  If you can overcome this, then you've done well.  So, now we come up with towers that more focus on single lanes.  This is a tower defense game.  If people are stuck, and not using something that is so effective, see that something is effective, do you think that they are not going to use that level of effectiveness?

Again, the answer is not to nerf.  The answer is to give all towers a level of functionality to keep the game diversified.  People will always come up with a rebuttal to nerfs; they always have.

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I'm still surprised threads like this are popping up, do people really still think these aren't over performing? 

I can place bees with 3m dps with no AP or talent cap increases for 30DU, what other tower in existence can put down 3m dps on 3 targets evenly with no overlap for, or in, 30DU increments? FA doesnt, Cannons are single target, Fissures dont, WM cant, Blaze Balloon barely compares to FA/Fissures, Sand Viper omegaLUL, and ES barely compares but only because AoE (Earth Toss) has a 10 target limit not 3.

A lot of these defenses are really really good though. In fact I use some of them because of how awesome they are and even more besides these, but bees are definitely over performing in their field. Not only for damage but for the fact they are undamagable, can be placed safely away form Cyborcs, Frost Orcs (not that they are much of a threat anymore) and Cursi-Kaze, and have no other counter to limit their damage like shields (you can make 2 Dryads to have one physical and one magical damage bees sets). 

They have been full damage spec defenses and even more so with mods. Shards? damage, damage, and damage, Mods? damage, damage, and damage. There is no trade off at all with them, they are "perfect" defenses in every sense of the word.

To wrap back to the beginning, How do people still not see this as a problem?

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the bees don't work well as it is.. half the time most just sit there. They need fixing not nurfing. People work hard to get there stuff too kick butt, only too have trendy Nurf it. They need to stop messing with stuff, Players dont like it. I love this game, but if they keep messing with my fav stuff what's the point in playing.

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Bees need to have their AI fixed but they also need to be nerfed, they are currently the strongest tower in the game, regardless of DU cost, only thing they can't handle is Controlled Burn in onslaught. if Controlled burn wasn't in, you could literally run ONLY bees and trees and win 99% of the time. My bees deal 1.5m dps without a boost aura, as far as i know, that DPS is PER BEE.... do you see how overpowered that is

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@Growlith1223 quote:

Bees need to have their AI fixed but they also need to be nerfed, they are currently the strongest tower in the game, regardless of DU cost, only thing they can't handle is Controlled Burn in onslaught. if Controlled burn wasn't in, you could literally run ONLY bees and trees and win 99% of the time. My bees deal 1.5m dps without a boost aura, as far as i know, that DPS is PER BEE.... do you see how overpowered that is

earthshatter does 5m splash damage when properly modded and can hit from across the map... LSA/flame auras with meele boom can be insane as well. The problem is not that bees are too strong and that is why everyone uses them it is that most towers have short range, die easily and that you need to waste a mod space for piercing in order to use them, that is why there is a lack of diversity. People like bees not because they are overpowered (i admit they are strong) but because a dryad can build everything you need without having to swap to multiple heros. I don't use bees anymore and i am still progressing just fine without them. Instead of working on nerfs we need to figure a way to make all defenses viable instead of wasting effort to drag down and ruin one that is widely liked by the fanbase. that is my opinion anyway.

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Bees ai is fine. Only 1 bee per hive can attack each target. If u have more bees than targets, u get bees with nothing to do. If you have lazy bees, sell a hive and put a flame aura up. 

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Everybody here has a point. You say that there isn't a tradeoff in towers for bees? There is. One example, of six that I've found, was listed. Earth shatter can get damaged but that is irrelevant when we take distance to target in regard. AI fix? The solid point was made. Three bees per hive yet only one bee per target per hive.

Lot of good points. My concern is a continual nerfing logic being utilized. "X" finds something effective for Onslaught floors 150+. "Y" is having a hard time with those floors and watches "X"'s videos; thus, "Y" used "X"'s effective methods...this is a trickle down effect to whit almost the entire alphabet uses "X"'s solution.

There are great towers as equally useful and moreso than the bees. If you haven't discovered them, not my problem. My concern is, if a viable and very effective use of another tower or two comes into play with the removal of the bees, let's face it, nerf them and they get removed from the lineup, do the new towers get nerfed? I'm only wanting to know the logic. Like Stephen said, why work hard to get your stuff to kick butt, only to have Trendy nerf it. Amen.


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@ajantis619 quote:


@Growlith1223 quote:

Bees need to have their AI fixed but they also need to be nerfed, they are currently the strongest tower in the game, regardless of DU cost, only thing they can't handle is Controlled Burn in onslaught. if Controlled burn wasn't in, you could literally run ONLY bees and trees and win 99% of the time. My bees deal 1.5m dps without a boost aura, as far as i know, that DPS is PER BEE.... do you see how overpowered that is

earthshatter does 5m splash damage when properly modded and can hit from across the map... LSA/flame auras with meele boom can be insane as well. The problem is not that bees are too strong and that is why everyone uses them it is that most towers have short range, die easily and that you need to waste a mod space for piercing in order to use them, that is why there is a lack of diversity. People like bees not because they are overpowered (i admit they are strong) but because a dryad can build everything you need without having to swap to multiple heros. I don't use bees anymore and i am still progressing just fine without them. Instead of working on nerfs we need to figure a way to make all defenses viable instead of wasting effort to drag down and ruin one that is widely liked by the fanbase. that is my opinion anyway.

Earth Shatterer is also 60 DU. and im not talking about their range, it's not even that anyway, it's the fact that you can have 3 bees per nest, each bee doing raw damage, it does not split to each bee, so you essentially have the poor man's Ramster, able to attack, VERY quickly, at a VERY high damage output, for 30 DU. I can run onslaught perfectly fine without them as well. but it's sad to see the same, cookie cutter template over and over because it's still, and always will be until something is done about, the meta.


Bees are easily one of the most, if not, the most overpowered tower in the game. Bullet Sponge? no problem. Cyborks? just place them on objects or behind objects. 4 nests per lane is even overkill still, tried it a day or so ago on floor 115(current floor), won no problem. and i haven't even done AP all that much, in fact i only have 1 AP, and +19 talent caps. the ONLY thing bees cannot handle, is Controlled Burn, which is as easy as placing down a PDT and the lane is dead. Bees are too strong for what they can do compared to what other 30 DU tier towers can do. Bees have no downsides, except for their broken AI half the time, and, if you consider it, afking as Dryad.

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"Earth Shatterer is also 60 DU. and im not talking about their range, it's not even that anyway, it's the fact that you can have 3 bees per nest, each bee doing raw damage, it does not split to each bee, so you essentially have the poor man's Ramster, able to attack, VERY quickly, at a VERY high damage output, for 30 DU. I can run onslaught perfectly fine without them as well. but it's sad to see the same, cookie cutter template over and over because it's still, and always will be until something is done about, the meta."

- Growlith

well said.  Their range is what keeps them safe.  We can do dps comparisons with towers all day.  Some PDTs rock so much harder than others, where some cannons are so much more effective than others.  I think we have strayed off topic.  The bees are getting nerfed, and there is nothing to be done about it.  When it comes down to developers, I am convinced that they are not out to get us.  

My concern with all of the nerfs that have happened, with DD2, and other games, is the understood solution.  What if an individual posts a video of a towers that is multi-functional on Onslaught where you can afk even siege-rollers, whereas you cannot afk siege-rollers with  bees?  I'm wondering what logic is going to go behind the next "ultimate tower."  Doesn't there come a point where a map can be constructed to prevent this from happening?  Fact is, there are at least five really intelligent people who seem to be out to play this game only to prove that nothing can stop them.  There may be more, but I do know of at least five.  Is Trendy going to try and make a work-around to everyone of the styles that these people come up with?  What if they post a video, then others follow.  Just want to know the logic. 



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Hopefully nerfing the bees isn't mutually exclusive to buffing the towers that don't work so well.

I'm looking at you: Geyser Trap, Blaze Balloon, Skeletal Archers, Buff Beam, Volcano, Sand Viper, Harpy Perch, and Hailstorm Tower.


** I'd be ok with a trigger radius added to hornets rather than a boring DPS drop

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LittleMagicHat, I'll throw out one

 for you to try.  Depending on the hero you choose to run with....if you run with the Abyss Lord and combine Skeletal Archers with Fissure, then you have a rocking combination.  Direct command the archers that cover a lane where the fissure is, and you have every right to afk that lane.

Blaze balloon, buff beam (completely pointless...completely), Volcano rocks so hard if you know where to put it, correct mods and shards (are you on PS4? I will run with you and show you the effectiveness of this tower to the point where devs might nerf it) Sand Viper?  Come on!  This tower is amazing..Harpies Perch?  Throw the right mods....ah, come with me on PS4.  Come, this tower is sick.  Hailstorm?  I know not.  Depending on the placement, shards, and mods, towers that seem useless become towers that are adored.

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Do the bees really need to be nerfed? Their AI is already broken and they’re unreliable because of it. They’re a wildcard defense. Every time I use them I feel like I’m playing Russian roulette of whether or not they’ll actually attack or just sit there while a horde of skeletons smashes down a wall. Think that balances out, if they get nerfed then they’ll be both weak and unreliable.

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Well, Defenders, I will give this to Jose. He's nerfing the bees for a reason.  If you place them backwards, yes, away form spawn-points, they will be a 360 defense, just like the ahhh pools, slime-pits.  Place them backwards and they will act as intended.  The bees have an exceedingly high dps rate, only targeting on mob per hive, sure, but do them right and you have the beatdown.

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@ArchaicLotus quote:

Well, Defenders, I will give this to Jose. He's nerfing the bees for a reason.  If you place them backwards, yes, away form spawn-points, they will be a 360 defense, just like the ahhh pools, slime-pits.  Place them backwards and they will act as intended.  The bees have an exceedingly high dps rate, only targeting on mob per hive, sure, but do them right and you have the beatdown.

targeting 2 mobs per hive, 3 if corrupt*

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Bees are  technically 60 DU as well, you need to put a Tree down. 😄

@Growlith1223 quote:


@ajantis619 quote:


@Growlith1223 quote:

Bees need to have their AI fixed but they also need to be nerfed, they are currently the strongest tower in the game, regardless of DU cost, only thing they can't handle is Controlled Burn in onslaught. if Controlled burn wasn't in, you could literally run ONLY bees and trees and win 99% of the time. My bees deal 1.5m dps without a boost aura, as far as i know, that DPS is PER BEE.... do you see how overpowered that is

earthshatter does 5m splash damage when properly modded and can hit from across the map... LSA/flame auras with meele boom can be insane as well. The problem is not that bees are too strong and that is why everyone uses them it is that most towers have short range, die easily and that you need to waste a mod space for piercing in order to use them, that is why there is a lack of diversity. People like bees not because they are overpowered (i admit they are strong) but because a dryad can build everything you need without having to swap to multiple heros. I don't use bees anymore and i am still progressing just fine without them. Instead of working on nerfs we need to figure a way to make all defenses viable instead of wasting effort to drag down and ruin one that is widely liked by the fanbase. that is my opinion anyway.

Earth Shatterer is also 60 DU. and im not talking about their range, it's not even that anyway, it's the fact that you can have 3 bees per nest, each bee doing raw damage, it does not split to each bee, so you essentially have the poor man's Ramster, able to attack, VERY quickly, at a VERY high damage output, for 30 DU. I can run onslaught perfectly fine without them as well. but it's sad to see the same, cookie cutter template over and over because it's still, and always will be until something is done about, the meta.


Bees are easily one of the most, if not, the most overpowered tower in the game. Bullet Sponge? no problem. Cyborks? just place them on objects or behind objects. 4 nests per lane is even overkill still, tried it a day or so ago on floor 115(current floor), won no problem. and i haven't even done AP all that much, in fact i only have 1 AP, and +19 talent caps. the ONLY thing bees cannot handle, is Controlled Burn, which is as easy as placing down a PDT and the lane is dead. Bees are too strong for what they can do compared to what other 30 DU tier towers can do. Bees have no downsides, except for their broken AI half the time, and, if you consider it, afking as Dryad.


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I think it is odd that hives have health and i can waste ascension points on that category when it does nothing in the game for you. At a min this ap category should be eliminated if hive or bee health plays no part in the game, or rework the def to at least incorporate that element. 

They should also be reclassified as a new tower type, because 'trap' is not reflective of how they work at all. 

This thread really need a Nic Cage pic, "oh no, NOT BEEEEEEEES!!!!" LOL

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I'll just stop using bees the day the towers are not destroyed. for what reason will I use a defense that is easily broken? in addition, towers only attack at a maximum of 90º the bees attack 360º. the only tower that really is worth riding is Sky Guard Tower the rest is wasted time.

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i tried using hornets but enemies seem to always get by and destroyed crystal i even kept corruption up the whole round i must be using them wrong best i use is pdts with earthshatter and flame auras with extra range 

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@Jaws_420 quote:

I think it is odd that hives have health and i can waste ascension points on that category when it does nothing in the game for you. At a min this ap category should be eliminated if hive or bee health plays no part in the game, or rework the def to at least incorporate that element. 

I haven't tested this, but does Vampiric Empowerment not work with bees?

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Personnaly, I switched to bees for convenience. I've grown tired of having to switch heroes all the time and just switched to bees on floor 120 or so. So, i'm totally fine with bees being nerfed, it's definitely deserved. but I'd really like to see heroes selection extended to F5-F8 at the same time.  Improving menu for deck management would be decent change, but i'd rather have binds extended, I'm spending way too much time in menu since the protean update and I'd rather focus on actually playing the game instead.


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