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Nefhith

Materials Vault, what the hell

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So, we got a patch that added the materials vault. That is great, and you guys hyped it a lot:

Enter the Material Vault! The Material Vault is a new vault that will be available to players that want to be able to store extra crafting materials. This special vault allows you to hold 999 of every crafting material, and you will be able to automatically use them when interacting with items. Want to pump up the strength of your gear, but you put the materials in your Material Vault? You can now do it on the fly!

"That is great!" I thought. I downloaded the patch, booted the game and found this:

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Like... no. You added a feature locked behind money. I already put plenty of it in the game only to find this now. No option to get it with defender medals or anything. I bought 3 bank vaults (which are stupidly expensive, by the way), but I thought "what the hell, why not, more inventory space". I bought all player shop slots, and got my bags maxed. All with real money of course, because it's the only way you can  get them.

Instead of giving us REAL quality of life updates (as you keep saying), you punish us players with things like that. Want examples? Here goes:

  • Non-stackable shards. While that's kinda understandable (hard to stack a level 1 shard with a level 5 one), but can still be fixed by giving us a separate shard inventory/book.
  • We used to put shards inside gear to have 3x the space. You guys instead removed that and made shards get into heroes instead. More comfortable, but a kick in the nuts for people like me who had several pages worth of shards completely full of legendary items with 3x of them. I also lost many of them in the process, which leads to...:
  • Inventory clutter to the max! With passives, we now need 3x the space (noticing a pattern here). We need to farm shards (and store them), passives (and store them) and materials (and store them). All of it with less space than before (since shards go into heroes, not gear).
  • Gilding. We now need 10x the space! YAY!!! If you want to keep a shard through the most punishing aspect of this game (ascension), which is also a BIG issue of itself (you can't make players reset their progress in a game like this one; it's as if Borderlands deleted all your gear everytime you went to Overpower levels) since this game is supposed about collecting loot and finding cool combinations. Anyways, requiring 10x shards to gild a single one (also 2m gold), passives and materials is just HORRIBLE considering how inventory works at the moment.
  • Let's not forget the materials vault doesn't automatically store items there. You need materials to take space in your inventory and move them manually there. Great, amirite?

I know my latest posts have been about bashing Trendy's updates, but this is not the game I used to play and even less what I expected from it. Coming from DD1, I just don't know how you managed to screw this game up so much. You had the formula to make a FANTASTIC game. I get you had to tackle things differently since the game is F2P, but things like this are straight up abusive and don't understand how you guys don't notice this before releasing the patch or whenever whoever comes with the ideas does so.

Sorry for the negative post, but I would like Trendy to see that not all players are fine with how they're doing things, and would like them to re-think how they're going to do things in the future. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, but I am not talking for the community, only for the people who think like me.

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Yes i feel your pain, i my self have bought DD2 dlc's and stuff to support them but they keep releasing money grab patches and it seems like this game will have mostly negative reviews on steam because of not being F2P friendly.. but i hope they understand their mistake and be more friendly with their community that supports them lol. right now the patches are somehow good and bad :) in example, ascension reset have no reason to exist in the game and material vault shouldn't cost 15 euros xD... tilted ;o
although i really enjoy the game the past month and i will still support it because i have some faith that they can fix things up..somehow

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It's a small price to pay for the extra utility that it gives, and remember it clears a lot of bag space, which is another form of money for Trendy.

So its bags or vault, both cost gems.

I am surprised you guys thought it would be free.

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Trendy isn't a charity, they have to make money some way.  It is either box price plus expansion price plus dlc prices or its cosmetics plus quality of life stuff/inventory storage.  You can get the vast majority of things in the game via just playing the game.

I think people need to be reasonable.  If you don't think it is worth the money, you can still live without the material vault, it is just a convenience, not a necessity.

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@Fozzie quote:

It's a small price to pay for the extra utility that it gives, and remember it clears a lot of bag space, which is another form of money for Trendy.

So its bags or vault, both cost gems.

I am surprised you guys thought it would be free.

"A small price". It costs ~14$ (~13€). If you add the price of individual bags and vaults, the price comes at the price of a AAA game for only a few storage spaces in a F2P game.

The utility comes with more time having to manage the inventory with a system without a proper autosort or "instantly" sending things from one place to another.

@Vim quote:

Trendy isn't a charity, they have to make money some way.  It is either box price plus expansion price plus dlc prices or its cosmetics plus quality of life stuff/inventory storage.  You can get the vast majority of things in the game via just playing the game.

I think people need to be reasonable.  If you don't think it is worth the money, you can still live without the material vault, it is just a convenience, not a necessity.

It got to a point where I think I wuold've preferred the game to be paid instead of F2P with this stuff. You need to be reasonable, too. You say it is not a necessity, but Trendy is trying to do everything possible to force us to buy inventory bags and such, just read what I said in the pointed lists, it wasn't a problem with closed alpha, but as they kept releasing patches and updates they tried to add as much inventory clutter as possible.

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I don't wanna throw salt on the wound but... INB4 1000 gems for stackable shards!
-
I don't have any problem with inventory management anymore since I just decided to stop hoarding excrement, I mean seriously do you really need those 10 Shroom Glooms *wink *wink.
or those 30 4/5 Mods which you're not gonna ever use, and can probably sell for the same amount as doing a few maps and making the money back in the time it takes you to place that trade order.

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The issue is two things IMO: 

1) if you communicate cost up front there is less sticker shock, so with no warning about cost here there is plenty of sticker shock. Just be up front about it - this is a paid $olution and here is the cost... 

2) its a solution to a self-created problem. I would not need the vault if TE did not clutter up my inventory with the items form the last update (which could have been released in vault from the get go). Same with Shards, and even more so with the issue gilding has caused and no solution to that yet. Having to pay for a poor design is not something to jump up and down about. This only frees up a single page for me, which in terms of vault space is only 1 vault page for me so far (and not even a whole one yet) - which costs less than the materials vault does. I know i will use the vault more later, but again this makes the current cost even more difficult to accept now. And now that you have more space - here comes the extra loot from multiplayer to eat that up right away... 

I would have less issues with this if we were told this was the plan all along. Release more goodies, then provide paid ways to manage those goodies. A plan - that i can get on board with. From the way we got it, it comes off as - TE made a mess in inventory, and now we have to pay to clean it up. 

Does that mean i am not happy to get the vault? Absolutely not. Does that mean i will not buy the vault? Not at all. What is does mean though is that the way this was rolled out made this a somewhat bitter pill to swallow. For me at least. 

So i am happy for the vault, but i wish the cost was communicated from the moment it was teased to us. I also now fear how things like shards will be corrected, and how much $$$ it will cost me to correct that issue now... I also now have to be suspicious of every bag/vault eating roll-out, as it may be put in place just to cause a $$$ fix later. So is the new multiplayer bonus really for us, or a way to eat up bag space??? I'd like to not have to make these kinds of assumptions... 

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Well, I normally don't buy gems directly, I usually get them from DLCs, that way, I get quite the best value! So, buying that vault ain't painful to me.

I do the same, but that doesn't make it any better. I must have bought about 14k gems for about half the price, but that is still almost 70€, which is a lot for a free game that requires those things for "quality of life" improvements.

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Oh, I think I forgot to mention, that I only buy DLCs when there is a sale. So, I recently bought two dlcs (at a sale) that gives about 15k gems altogether. I don't live in the EU but from what I searched about currency, I think I've only spent around 25 euro.

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...and a cache of gems for 10$ aint even enough to buy the mat vault, they made it so you have to buy an extra 5$ bag or a 20$ bag of gems to be able to afford it. Sneaky.

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@MaJean quote:

...and a cache of gems for 10$ aint even enough to buy the mat vault, they made it so you have to buy an extra 5$ bag or a 20$ bag of gems to be able to afford it. Sneaky.

Ding ding! That's what I'm talking about. Trendy's sneakiness to make us put more money into the game.

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@Jaws_420 quote:

The vault costing gems really should have been communicated. 

This post is a Jewel ... and the fact that Jaws didn't make a 4 pages essay about it ... makes it a Dimond Emoji_Apprentice.png

My opinion on Material Valut:

1) Developers should encourage their supporters ... i mean Defence Council members (early game Supporters) should have a 50% discount ... Respecting early support is common sense ... at least in my coutry i get discounts even after 10 years to some hotels because we were among first clients ... i think that's basic moral standard ... (now ... i am not in Defence Council ... i wish i was)

2) Yes, i agree it should be for sale ... not every one agrees with me but it's just one opinion.

3) after 999 what happens ? for example to uprade a Chaos 7 to Chaos 8 it takes imense ammount of materials ... 400 per piece and one hero has 5 Gears + 4/5 Defences ... so 400 * 5 = 2000 .... that's 2000 materials for my Chaos 7 Mystic + 2000 Defences  ... Totals of 4000 Materials ... ok let's say i am rich and i buy your Material Vault ... than i buy 3 more ? ... i already have 1500 Pristine Motes and 900 Amps ... we need a page that is just a regular page with 64 slots .... and we can choose what goes beyond 999.

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I wish there was a way we could use Defender Medals to acquire extra space, similar to how we can use Medals to buy hero cards and or a new hero itself.  Make each bag or vault space cost 10k medals.  I mean I understand Trendy has to eat too but if my wife finds out I swiped for extra inventory I won't eat for a week lol, seriously though, I once spent $10 on a game called Tera to get an extra bank page and I was pretty much begging the dog for some left overs.

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I wonder if trendy even play their own game.  999 slots is nowhere near enough for any one item.  I already have more than 999 shiny motes and almost 2000 pristine motes.  As I am doing ancient power resets I can't use the pristine motes and need to save them for when I finally finish resetting.  Isn't it 450 pristine motes for one c8 upgrade?  So I will probably need at least 10000 of these stored.  

Two bank vaults is cheaper than the materials vault and I can actually store far more of the materials I actually need in two bank vaults than one material vault.  Please fix it trendy.

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@Faking quote:

Two bank vaults is cheaper than the materials vault and I can actually store far more of the materials I actually need in two bank vaults than one material vault.  Please fix it trendy.

That's what i was trying to say (but in different words) ... ok First page ovrepriced but VERY usefull ... i'll buy when i have money ... but after that ... it's cheaper to just buy one more normal Vault where i can store 99 x 64 Pristine Motes

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I am greatly disappointed with what Trendy did today, they certainly failed at communicating this vault but furthermore I am beginning to feel as though they are holding our inventories hostage. This is not how to run a successful "f2p" game in my opinion, they are killing potential profits from new players because well...what the heck new player is going to come in and say hey, this one bag which fills up after each round is great let me go ahead and spend 250$ to unlock everything I need for this game to be a little bit of fun? If they have to charge for a stupid bag or vault space which I don't believe they should then the prices should at least be reasonable. I understand they need to make money somehow but they could have easily given everyone the free vault and let people pay to expand the thing as there were many requests for that.

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The first post on their patch preview for this one was by me and it was asking for the cost. They obviously ignored it and I understand why they did now. I compare this to PoE's currency, which goes on sale, and that costs $7.50 and it gives up to 5,000 of each currency instead of 999. 999 will fill up fast for a lot of people and then it is back to filling up vault/inventory spaces.

I don't know if I can trust them anymore and have considered quitting. What is next, a 2800 vault to store stackable / same level shards? Who knows what the next update(s) will add that will require more inventory room. MODs will eventually be a pain if you keep good ones that you build up over time. I am sure they will also add more bags and vault spaces as well over time and those have added up.

Disclaimer: I paid to join the Beta back in the day and I also have all Vaults/Inventory bags.

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in my opinion, right way to do this would have been to give a vault of 99 for free or even for medals and then pay for upgrades of 99 at reasonable price

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I am flood-grinding (grinding to the 7th power) shards and get absolutely loaded with items.  I only have two "player shops" spaces, only have one extra storage bag and have no problems with space.  I run a set number of floors, have auto-loot on to disregard green and grey items, and auto-sell all gear, relics that do not have green or perfect mods. After running floors, visit scavenger, player shops, run floors.  Sacrifice to make space.  I will be buying extra space to max out all capacity in the future.  Protean weapons and cosmetics are more important to me at the moment.  Do not hoard items.

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@Nefhith quote:


@Vim quote:

Trendy isn't a charity, they have to make money some way.  It is either box price plus expansion price plus dlc prices or its cosmetics plus quality of life stuff/inventory storage.  You can get the vast majority of things in the game via just playing the game.

I think people need to be reasonable.  If you don't think it is worth the money, you can still live without the material vault, it is just a convenience, not a necessity.

It got to a point where I think I wuold've preferred the game to be paid instead of F2P with this stuff. You need to be reasonable, too. You say it is not a necessity, but Trendy is trying to do everything possible to force us to buy inventory bags and such, just read what I said in the pointed lists, it wasn't a problem with closed alpha, but as they kept releasing patches and updates they tried to add as much inventory clutter as possible.

I would also have preferred the DD1 model, however, being FTP allows them to get access to a much wider group of potential players who will try the game out without it requiring an upfront payment to check it out first.


I understand where you are coming from, I am not a huge fan of FTP systems because they generate the vast majority of revenue from a minority of users who end up paying excessively more than they would have for a fixed price model, it is why I do not over-indulge in cosmetics and instead target my purchases to purely QoL things like bag and vault space.  I haven't purchased heroes with gems, I don't have a number of optional heroes which aren't really necessary to play the game.  I still purchase gems and have put a lot more money into DD2 than I did DD1, I am just not keen to subsidise those who do not pay anything or very little.


That being said, I do understand they need to make money, and I would much rather they make enough money to continue supporting the game than for them not to do so and abandon the game.  What they are asking for the material vault isn't trivial, everyone needs to make a conscious decision if they really want it or not.  I still have more than 3k gems laying around so I will probably get it, but I don't really have hoarding issues that some people do.  I would have much preferred a shard storage vault service as about 80% of my total storage capacity is made up of shards, by contrast my material storage was trivial by comparison.

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