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Scorpion449

Whats the point of playing this game?

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yeah i would have suggested cosmetic, but i figure if they made a nice cosmetic they'd want to sell it, so gems would cover that anyways


another thing they could do is make the banner drop nice and fancy and improve the way it looks every say 50 levels of onslaught

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I would say title and cosmetic.

Ascendant and Transcendent were nice titles. You ran DD1 Boss Rush etc for the best in class weapon drop chance. You did this again and again, partly to show how good you were at it and partly to get that perfect Ult ++ Classics. We used to grind Malth for Armageddon and Armoured Cleanser.

Said it countless times the stupid Wayfarer and limited Incursions was the dumbest idea ever. (well mastery maybe)

Have incursions like expeditions over all tiers and have the unique mods for the weapons get a bit of a buff so they are better than any other weapon and worth farming.

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@Scorpion449 quote:


@KingGuy420 quote:

The whole point of, not just this game, the entire genre of loot games is repetitive grind for power creep. It's what the genre is built on and what keeps players playing.

It sounds like your problem isn't with Dungeon Defenders 2, but the genre in general.

Nope I used to play firefall before, an mmo open world, even when i leveled all my characters and got the highest gears i kept playing because it had fun things to do.

Because you found those things fun. I'm sure someone thought it was boring and repetitive and jus wanted more power creep. If you weren't progressing what was the point? You said it yourself "fun" which answers the entire question of this thread.

I find the core gameplay of this game fun and even if there was no more progression, I'd still enjoy playing it. That's because I find these things fun. I put crazy hours into DD1 after I stopped progressing because what...? Fun =)

Just because you don't find enjoyment in this game outside of progression doesn't automatically mean there's a universal issue.

And besides, MMO's and loot games are different. I wasn't even remotely referring to MMO's.

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Everyone has there own different reason for playing. 


As for end game rewards is the same.  Adding more cosmetics may appeal to some while others prefer unquie loot. 


I think what would be good to add is weapon skins. Clear say floor 150 and get a weapon skin for one of your heros.

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@MaJean quote:

This game needs to revamp the boss fights and amp up the difficulty. Throw in some new bosses, and a boss rush mode cos that was awesome in DD1. Lastly for game longevity, I think we need some form of competitive PvP mode(s).  

The game is PVE and it should stay that way, they need to add more costumes,maps and weapons or just skins for the weapons and stop messing with game.

don't understand why they don't release costumes on a monthly basis because they are not that hard to do

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I wanted to chime in cause I like the question.  It's a question I've often pondered.

As said before me, it's the same as any game.  It's about fun.  If the fun isn't coming fast enough, it probably means that it's time to find a different game.  I would urge you and others to consider alternatives to achieving the 'fun' though.

Personally, I enjoy helping players, even at my sub-optimal gear setup.  Every time you run a new player on a difficult map, it's like Christmas Day to them with all the drops.  We can agree it's better to give than receive right?

I've been really digging the player shop too.  Regardless what I post for sale, it's usually sold within a day or so.  Just knowing I provided some equipment to a player is rewarding.  If I make some gold on it, it's icing on the cake.

Yeah it's a grind, but I think we all knew it would be when we started playing.

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@rdeal quote:


@MaJean quote:

This game needs to revamp the boss fights and amp up the difficulty. Throw in some new bosses, and a boss rush mode cos that was awesome in DD1. Lastly for game longevity, I think we need some form of competitive PvP mode(s).  

The game is PVE and it should stay that way, they need to add more costumes,maps and weapons or just skins for the weapons and stop messing with game.

don't understand why they don't release costumes on a monthly basis because they are not that hard to do

There´s no longevity in costumes. PvP could definetely work if handled the right way. The focus should be building against eachother and not shoot em up.

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@rdeal quote:


The game is PVE and it should stay that way, they need to add more costumes,maps and weapons or just skins for the weapons and stop messing with game.

Dang, it'd be a real shame if we weren't doing that with our next update. :>

Also, "not messing with the game" would be a bad call. As another user pointed out, there's no longevity in just cosmetics and new maps. We're improving Onslaught and AP as well as adding new content. Leaving those alone, especially based on Community feedback would be a big mistake. There's a ton more to be done past this update as well.

@rdeal quote:

don't understand why they don't release costumes on a monthly basis because they are not that hard to do

That's a misguided assumption. Our modelers, riggers, and animators are very talented, but also very busy, so getting new content AND getting new cosmetics is actually a very difficult task. Regardless, they are still able to deliver because they are just straight up BEASTS.

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Sweet ad hominem. I already stated  max c8 gear is for pushing high onslaught floors. You can use that later to grind max caps faster.

@ram1024 quote:

again you have bad reading comprehension


me: there should be rewards for grinding endgame

you: there is rewards, you get chaos 8 gear

me: but there's no point to the chaos 8 gear

you: still no answer but i'll throw more snark with this cosplay conversation thing


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@BeerGoggles quote:

Sweet ad hominem. I already stated  max c8 gear is for pushing high onslaught floors. You can use that later to grind max caps faster.

@ram1024 quote:

again you have bad reading comprehension


me: there should be rewards for grinding endgame

you: there is rewards, you get chaos 8 gear

me: but there's no point to the chaos 8 gear

you: still no answer but i'll throw more snark with this cosplay conversation thing


telling you that you have bad reading comprehension is not an ad hominem. don't be one of those people that just parrot off of the wikipedia fallacies page :P


"pushing high onslaught floors" and "grind max caps" are not rewards, so you still haven't answered the question

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@LAWLTA quote:

there's no longevity in just cosmetics and new maps. We're improving Onslaught and AP as well as adding new content

just have one guiding principle in mind and you will keep many people happy, "the harder the challenge, the better chance there should be that the player is rewarded with what he wants"



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@ram1024 quote:
just have one guiding principle in mind and you will keep many people happy, "the harder the challenge, the better chance there should be that the player is rewarded with what he wants"

Having that one guiding principle wouldn't be wise. Mastery was a harder challenge that offered both cosmetics and power, and there's definitely a part of our community who are not fans (which is fine, different strokes for different folks).

We have a goal we're working towards, we think players are going to be happy with the results. ;)

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I play the game for enjoyment and character growth. At the moment im farming dungeon maps for my relic craft mats and collecting some mods for them.


As rewards for end game. It is as lawlta said. Everyone has there own version of end game. Some gear while other is cosmetic.


For me both is good ;p. But I would love a for a end game boss to try and defeat 

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@LAWLTA quote:
there's definitely a part of our community who are not fans (of mastery)

the problem here is while it was "harder" you also removed the ability for players to play their own way. some players accept these challenges and are willing to move shards and relics around every map. some find the mode annoying and are further annoyed that the rewards are so good that they're almost mandatory (at least you made the really good shards early tier)

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The overall problem I'm seeing here, is that the end game has no rewards, right?

(please correct me if I'm wrong, with anything I'm about to say)

You know what. You're right, in a way. Indeed the end game doesn't have much rewards as in power, yes it has C8 Ampoules to raise your gear to a new level, but those take a lot of time to farm, which not many people actually have. There's of course the Ancient Power system too, but that isn't exactly popular, resetting everything to gain a small XP and Gold boost, and a small stat increase. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

But getting more power is just one of many reasons people play grind games, because in it's core, that's what DD2 is, a game to put hours upon hours in.

Whether people do it for power, cosmetics, having fun with friends, trying out funky and game-breaking strategies, or being more productive for the devs through bug finding, tutorials or just being a part of the awesome community (shout out to the Discord, that place rocks). In the end it comes down to a grind.

Grinding C8 Ampoules or Ancient Power,
Grinding floors to gain the cosmetics on floor 92 and 114, and to get defender packs for flairs and costumes,
Grinding to get special M.O.D.S. or Shards, special weapons to try out strategies,
Grinding maps to find glitches in the spawning of mobs, ways to get out of bounds or visual bugs,

it's a grind game, the end game doesn't have a reward, it's what you perceive as rewarding. That should be your goal, if you are looking for increasing power, maybe DD2 isn't the game for that right now, if you are looking for cosmetics, go right ahead, there's some cool ones out there to be had.

My point is, there is no point, the game isn't going to hand you everything, you have to make it difficult if that's what you want it to be, try traps-only onslaught, it'll be hard, you have to find ways around Cyborks and Frost Orcs, challenge Mastery, do what YOU want to do, do it cheesy with Weapon Manufacturers, or go off-meta and try your own ***tail of defenses.

I love this game for multiple reasons, the fun times I've had and still have with friends, the awesome community within, and the goal to achieve more, cosmetics and power wise.

It's up to you to decide what you're going to do.

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@Martin Arcainess quote:

For me both is good ;p. But I would love a for a end game boss to try and defeat 

Oh yeah! That'll be really nice. Bosses that even requires you to allocate some defenses to take them down would be sick too! After all, Endgame bosses are one of the major factors that makes endgame awesome!

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I love the update, and the game... but I do have some empathy towards the original question of "Whats the point", because I think the endgame isn't quite set right just yet. TE seem to be addressing that in the next update with Onslaught and AP changes.

Its a grinding game, yes, so you have enjoy the basic gameplay and not only the payoff, or you will be bored a lot of the time you play, with small spikes of payoff pleasure at rare intervals. This isn't a game for those folks. 

My humble suggestions are:

Endless - I'd love to see a single-map endless mode. Unless you hit very high onslaught floors, the game isnt hard enough quickly enough. I want to experience that Wave 25 nightmare of a zillion ogres all on the screen at once, and if a single one of your fully-maxxed defenses is even a millimetre out of place, you're toast. That was awesome in DD1. What would the payoff be? I'd suggest an exclusive cosmetic  or weapon per map (maybe). Seems like a weak payoff, but see below.

Changing mobs - The lanes are now getting really stagnant. We need new enemies for sure, but appreciating that new enemies take dev and testing time, I still think there is more variety that can be employed using existing mobs. The orge-only lane was a good addition, more of that kind of stuff. A Yeti-only lane, a roller-only lane, a Beserker-only lane with like 100 rushing beserkers would be amazing, and hard! A lane with extra touch extra-fast kamikazees, hundreds of them all exploding at once!

Pets - Pets are pointless, they need a real reset. How about, coupling the endless mode point above with special pets as payoffs, ones that add real additional power to defenders. Prize for defeating Wave 25 of Buried Bastille? A New pet with a +X Defense Power for all of a heroes defenses. That would be worth the effort! Reminds me of the old seahorse, what a moment getting a top rated seahorse was!

Special MODS - Maybe another prize for endless maps would be unique mods you cant get elsewhere, something that adds a little bit extra on to whats available on normal play....

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@Fozzie quote:

DD1 had Crystalline Dimension, Obsidian weapons on Akatiti, Steam saw on Sky City, coal on Winer Wonderland.

REAL BOSS FIGHTS

Something you needed actually fully gear up to do.

DD2 has more stuff now with mods, so it has finally trumped DD1 in that way but so so far behind in end game.

Onslaught floor grind is as the OP says, where is the point bar a slot on a leaderboard.

DD2 is still a WIP but seriously Onslaught is boring, Mastery is punishing, not fun, Expeditions are only steps in the Onslaught grind.

Betsy, Harbinger and Incursions are wasted currently.

Hopefully there are plans afoot to give something worth all this power creep.

For my money they need a proper boss fight, something like Boss Rush with a proper class specific weapon drop that is better than all the other weapons, something to aspire to and grind for, currently there is nothing.  

Well said. 



As to the OP topic - if you are not into tower def games, and don't like loot collecting and grinding - this is not the game for you. It does not mean you still cannot have fun with this game, but know it for what it is. 

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