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Scorpion449

Whats the point of playing this game?

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Yesterday, I got to killing floor 64 then I had problems with one lane. I don't know what happened but i think I needed to change the defense in that lane but I got so lazy about it because I realized why am I even aiming to go to a higher killing floor? Its just going to be the same enemies with more health. I also know that you start getting ancient powers once you pass floor 65, but really? Is that really what I want?  Just to get higher stats to defeat the same enemies with higher health. Then the cosmetics too? I don't care about those, I can buy some with real money but I won't because am still thinking if its worth it to invest time and money in this game.


I actually left this game until this protean shift update which is a very good one, but am already getting bored and I now know the reason why. I know this is a grindy game but there's supposed to be some fun when grinding, but there isn't. It's just the same defense build you see everywhere you go. After this protean update, its either you see the Dryad with her bees trap or seris ev with her weapon manufacturer, Now that there is a stun mod for wm its so easy to beat any killing floor now. Before the update, it was Seris ev with her proton beam when Power transfer wasn't nerfed.  


Soo what supposed to make this game fun is trying out different strategies with the so many different defense other heroes have but OMG so many other defenses are just flat out useless, some are useful but then they cost so much defense unit or there are no maps that is designed for them to be used properly.

Examples-

  • Why use harpoon turrents when cannonball does a better job and has a mod for stun and harpoon cost 2x defense unit to build.
  • training dummy, i've never seen anyone use, i think its because there is no interesting shard for it
  • All huntress defense are just useless (mainly because of AOE) because weapon manufacturer or monks auras can do the job much better. Now we don,t even need her poison darts anymore because we now have elemental mods and can equip it on stronger towers like cannonball.
  • I've used my most powerful equipment on the apprentice, yet his defense are soo weak and there's no instance to use them anymore since the introduction of elemental mods. So a squire's tower with good mods or even without mods are way better than that of the apprentice.
  • Mystic defenses are very interesting but if you try to use them in higher difficulties, they will fail which leaves the domination of wm and bees
  • The abyss Lords defenses are also interesting, but like mystic if you use in higher difficulties they will fail and they cost more to build than the good regulars. I've always wanted to use the skeleton archers but there is literally no map to take advantage of their uniqueness which is covering 2 lanes.
  • There is only 1 good anti- air tower which is sky guard, I wish to see more unique ones. Maybe convert that harpoon torrent into an anti-air tower with explosives.
I can go on about more useless defenses, but i hope you see the point now.  I know mastery was supposed to bring out the uniqueness of these defenses but when we have other better rewarding modes to play like onslaught, we have to upgrade the most useful defenses we have and it not like the rewards of mastery are that great. Because after i got the mass destruction and range mod, there was no need to continue because everyone is chasing how to get more DPS. Mastery can be easier with a squad but its hard to see anyone who wants to play it and when you finally find one, its highly likely for the person to mess up and you don't get all stars for the map.

Another problem is the rate of shard drops, the most important ones like defense rate or range. There are many heroes with at 4 to 5 defenses, and these are the mods we need for almost all of them because everyone only cares about DPS, so why are they so hard to get? Its so tiring to build all the time and wait for like 20-30 minutes for a map to end and yet nothing. This is also one of the reasons why i left before, it didn't feel rewarding enough. I got tired of swapping shards all the time just to test another hero and i believe this is also contributing to why only some defenses are used all the time, because we don't have the good shards for other defenses. I have also lost some of my shard doing this, I didn't know some were going to the scavenger and they got deleted.


Maybe its time to introduce crafting. Instead of farming for the mods and hoping for something that is very unlikely to happen, why don't we just farm directly for the materials to craft them so we know in the end, we get what we really want. And of course, the more powerful shards like defense rate will be more expensive to craft if this idea would be considered.


Conclusion and few suggestions

This is a very interesting game if you are just searching for power but I wish this game can be more about using the different defenses we have to make new strategies and not not just aiming to be more powerful. Am not saying its bad to be powerful, Its fun to be powerful only when there is a need for it and different ways to show your power. I feel the way the game mechanics, enemies, defenses, loot drop rates and maps have been designed only make some heroes more useful than the others.  My main suggestion is to look into why some defenses are not used at all. Some are just simple like defense unit is too high when there is a cheaper and more powerful defense to use like the case of cannonball and flame thrower cannonball > flamethrower and cheaper to build; There are no maps that suit some defenses e.g. skeleton archers and some others; or cases where the defense is just useless like huntress traps, if you can make huntress traps behave how they used to in DD1, it would maybe be useful again, because i remember huntress traps could trigger other traps that are nearby. All defenses should be used and enjoyed in higher difficulties but some cant even carry you through the 1st wave even after equipping them with the best shards and mods. Then try and consider crafting shards or maybe they should drop more frequently because am tired of swapping mods all the time.






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DD1 had Crystalline Dimension, Obsidian weapons on Akatiti, Steam saw on Sky City, coal on Winer Wonderland.

REAL BOSS FIGHTS

Something you needed actually fully gear up to do.

DD2 has more stuff now with mods, so it has finally trumped DD1 in that way but so so far behind in end game.

Onslaught floor grind is as the OP says, where is the point bar a slot on a leaderboard.

DD2 is still a WIP but seriously Onslaught is boring, Mastery is punishing, not fun, Expeditions are only steps in the Onslaught grind.

Betsy, Harbinger and Incursions are wasted currently.

Hopefully there are plans afoot to give something worth all this power creep.

For my money they need a proper boss fight, something like Boss Rush with a proper class specific weapon drop that is better than all the other weapons, something to aspire to and grind for, currently there is nothing.  

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Yeah, I remember DD1, it was really fun. All the interesting maps, bosses and crystalline dimension, those sweet loot from defeating a boss, each of them were so unique And i remember all defenses were useful then unlike now where its just bees weapon manufacturer and blockades you see everywhere. And you don't really have to worry about mods or shards then, it was just to upgrade them. Now there's chaos 1 to to 7 and you have to grind to get gears from your current chaos to get to the next then come back and grind hard for some shards again to grind for onslaught. 

I know there is more to come for this game, but am hoping its not a power creep situation again but actual fun and rewarding activities to do in the game and I hope those defenses that are currently not useful actually become useful again.


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While more content is always welcome, I don't think the 'useless defenses' are anywhere useless.

Harpoons can be a very good aoe clear on long small lanes especially with the exploding bolts.
Apprentice Flamethrowers are a very niche tower but can cover 2 lanes at the same time cause it can turn 360°
Earthshatter with the aoe mod can be a decent clear tool and without it its still a good single target burst tower.
The Frost Tower is still a good crowd controll tower that can buff your defenses.
Mystic Walls are good aswell if build with skyguard towers or other synergies.
Sand Viper can be a very good miniboss clear tower.
Huntress Poison Darts are as strong as ever, the rest can be good in the right builds.
For Abyss Lord, while Archers are really lacking atm, Ramsters are still a good aoe clear tool and orc blockades are still one of the best dps walls.
For Colossus I made a thread talking about his Attack Range macking him rather useless which is also shown in this little video I made here

Obviously you can use always the same tactic cause WM are currently pretty broken and monk auras are also very good right now but saying that you can't use diffrent strategys is just wrong.

Not gonna say your completly wrong tho.
The Game is extremly grindy atm with no real endgame goal except reaching high floors in onslaught which does not really reward you anything except less grind for your next ap reset.
The Game will need a more rewarding endgame but there are some way more important changes that need to be made first (Inventory Management, Bugfixes, more maingame content, etc.).

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The whole point of, not just this game, the entire genre of loot games is repetitive grind for power creep. It's what the genre is built on and what keeps players playing.

It sounds like your problem isn't with Dungeon Defenders 2, but the genre in general.

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they really should at least ANNOUNCE that chaos 8 is in development. give people a reason to strive for the perfect chaos 7 gearset


furthermore i would drop some goal/rewards on high onslaught tiers. make them drop ADDITIONAL special things. gold and defender medals is meh i'm talking about cosmetics and even something substantial like a consumable that automatically gilds a shard without needing to gather 10 of the damn thing


hell i'd even make them sellable in market. this would keep the people who have full gear playing

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"c8" and "C8" gear exist in the game already. They are onslaught 80++ and buried under rng that increases as you go higher


adding c8 to expeditions doesn't add anything to the game. Actually would decrease the game's longevity to add it.


 The "Special" things that drop in onslaught are c8 crafting mats. 

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Well if you can GET chaos 10000 and there isn't chaos 10001 things to fight. 

what's the point?

wat's onslaught even?

@ram1024 quote:

well if you can GET chaos 8 and there isn't chaos 9 things to fight


what's the point?

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so you're telling me the endgame is full chaos 8 gear by grinding onslaught and once you have full chaos 8 gear you can uninstall because there's nothing left to grind


<shrug> i guess that's something


it's not really inspirational though

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What's the farthest you've gone in onslaught? The challenge is that you have to do it with the same gear people are doing 200 levels below you, because you developed some skill. Grind AP efficiently to help.


You can get on the leaderboards too if you're inspired by that. Bet youre 1000 miles from c8 gear though.


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@BeerGoggles quote:

What's the farthest you've gone in onslaught? The challenge is that you have to do it with the same gear people are doing 200 levels below you, because you developed some skill. Grind AP efficiently to help.


You can get on the leaderboards too if you're inspired by that. Bet youre 1000 miles from c8 gear though.


i don't have 5000 hours to spend on this game, so no i'm not going to grind RNG and call it skill

i'm going to play it my own way, and i have never disparaged anyone else's playstyle


the only thing i've said is, there could be more rewards for the people that DO want to grind 5000 hours


why the vitriol, bro

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I'm not vitriolic. You just don't understand the endgame.  There is a post c7 mode and there is a reason to "perfect" your gear (past c7) and increase account stats (AP). 

@ram1024 quote:

they really should at least ANNOUNCE that chaos 8 is in development. give people a reason to strive for the perfect chaos 7 gearset

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but the same thing i said vis the REASONS needed also now apply to chaos 8 since you brought it up :P

logic

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here's an analogy of the conversation:

ram: "There should be a way to break dollars into quarters!!!"

Beer: "there is a way to do that"

Ram:"see im right"

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again you have bad reading comprehension


me: there should be rewards for grinding endgame

you: there is rewards, you get chaos 8 gear

me: but there's no point to the chaos 8 gear

you: still no answer but i'll throw more snark with this cosplay conversation thing

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There is a point at which people find their enjoyment, fulfilment exhausted in every game. This point is reached in many games simply by completion, its extended by difficulty levels, modes and other mechanics.

DD2 has campaign, and then a mix of Adventures, Onslaught and Expeditions. The trouble with the updates for long term players is this game flow is massively curtailed due to the accumulated gear, heroes and ascension.

Had the protean shift update arrived at the right time, i.e. before the chaos and mastery missteps then we could have legitimately had a reset and everyone could have gone through the full game.

The short circuit we have as long time players reduces our experience of the game as a whole.

AP resets somewhat gives that back but there are just so many of those that most people can do.

An end game boss fight filled storyline would be good, that you could actually lose due to it being hard would be interesting. 

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my only reason still playing is to get the onslaught 114 cosmetics. iam at 100 now. than bye till next 2-3 updates ^^

Main reasons:

1. no more good rewards

2. all my bags are full and the item management costs me to much real life time thats no fun


i want to play a rewarding towerdefense game not a boring item manager ;-(


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would you continue playing if every onslaught floor above 100 gave you 1 "gem", every floor above 200 gave you 2 gems, etc?

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@KingGuy420 quote:

The whole point of, not just this game, the entire genre of loot games is repetitive grind for power creep. It's what the genre is built on and what keeps players playing.

It sounds like your problem isn't with Dungeon Defenders 2, but the genre in general.

Nope I used to play firefall before, an mmo open world, even when i leveled all my characters and got the highest gears i kept playing because it had fun things to do.

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This game needs to revamp the boss fights and amp up the difficulty. Throw in some new bosses, and a boss rush mode cos that was awesome in DD1. Lastly for game longevity, I think we need some form of competitive PvP mode(s).  

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@ram1024 quote:

would you continue playing if every onslaught floor above 100 gave you 1 "gem", every floor above 200 gave you 2 gems, etc?

For me no. Gems are payable and this is no reward for me. But i would play till 200 if i get a extreme nice cosmetic.

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