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Vindicit

15% Shop Removal Penalty

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So.... what is the point of this penalty? So if something does not sell you are basically screwing us over and costing us money. 15% is huge. Totally unneeded feature. 15% is also huge for a "tax" on a sale. You devs scared of too many items on the shops that we need to pay for slots with premium currency for or something? Too much gold gonna be going around?

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It's to stop the market filling up with high priced items that don't sell.   Sounds like a great idea to me.

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@Kruntski quote:

It's to stop the market filling up with high priced items that don't sell.   Sounds like a great idea to me.

"High priced" is relative. It does not matter if an item is listed for 10m or 1m. It matters what people will actually pay for an item and no one knows what the price if items are going to be until the economy gets fleshed out. And even then once it does balance out, an item listed for 500k could be "high" when its average could be 450k. So again, "high priced" is relative. Awful feature when we have no visibility on the average price for items.

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@Vindicit quote:


@Kruntski quote:

It's to stop the market filling up with high priced items that don't sell.   Sounds like a great idea to me.

"High priced" is relative. It does not matter if an item is listed for 10m or 1m. It matters what people will actually pay for an item and no one knows what the price if items are going to be until the economy gets fleshed out. And even then once it does balance out, an item listed for 500k could be "high" when its average could be 450k. So again, "high priced" is relative. Awful feature when we have no visibility on the average price for items.

It should be changed to like 12-24hrs and then the fee is removed for relisting.

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Agree it might be tough to manage if you are just over the current market price but you could always aim low if really keen to sell something.  I've played other games with unregulated markets and they all end up being filled with people spamming overpriced items.

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@Infernotez quote:


@Vindicit quote:


@Kruntski quote:

It's to stop the market filling up with high priced items that don't sell.   Sounds like a great idea to me.

"High priced" is relative. It does not matter if an item is listed for 10m or 1m. It matters what people will actually pay for an item and no one knows what the price if items are going to be until the economy gets fleshed out. And even then once it does balance out, an item listed for 500k could be "high" when its average could be 450k. So again, "high priced" is relative. Awful feature when we have no visibility on the average price for items.

It should be changed to like 12-24hrs and then the fee is removed for relisting.

this is a great idea, its just stupid high taxes that waste our hard earned money, spending days grinding this gold this after this i lost over 20m in taxes so far because of taxes and needing to change prices because no one knows how to price thing yet, so adding taxes is like the ultimate *** off to hard grinders like myself. if you wanna add tax then add something like 2% and only when sold not when canceled as well. I already paid real money to buy slots for my shop, now i have to pay for gold taxes as well. 

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It's a staple in pretty much every game economy to reduce inflation from happening, and 15% is the low-end standard. It serves multiple purposes beyond that, one being for our game specifically is to prevent store space from being used as additional inventory space.

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@LAWLTA quote:

It's a staple in pretty much every game economy to reduce inflation from happening, and 15% is the low-end standard. It serves multiple purposes beyond that, one being for our game specifically is to prevent store space from being used as additional inventory space.

I don't think the tax itself is really even an issue, the issue is that you are forced to pay it no matter what. There is not enough trade slots to warrant buying just for storage. Even if someone did, isn't that their choice? Why should the tax not be ignored after x amount of time though? Most game that make you pay to list are also listing on an auction house meaning every single person in the server gets to see the price and you can gauge a price. If you are comparing to warframe then they don't charge you ANYTHING unless you trade it away. If we cannot get a gauge on the price, then how are we to sell stuff? I understand why you want there to be that penalty, but not why it needs to have no chance of mitigation.

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DD2 needs gold sinks. 

It has alot of them now.

Make the refund 100-200 medals instead.

Keep the tax, it should definitely be there.

You achieve the same goal.

But you allow your players to make gold instead of losing it.

(Though they still lose gold from things they could of bought with medals)

At least an option to choose between the two would be nice ;)
Perhaps a scaling DEF medals based on the price you listed.

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i think they should of allowed us to change the prices on a item at least 2/3 times so we can correct ourselves i in times we feel ambitious 

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Forcing players to pay the tax to remove the item is very punishing to new players. There should at the very least be a warning to players that they will have to pay to remove the item from the shop if it does not sell. Alternatively it is a very expensive mistake to make if you under price your item and are forced to pay 15% just to get it back. I think there should be an alternate way of removing your item perhaps after a set amount of time.  

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@mjewell437 quote:

Forcing players to pay the tax to remove the item is very punishing to new players. There should at the very least be a warning to players that they will have to pay to remove the item from the shop if it does not sell. Alternatively it is a very expensive mistake to make if you under price your item and are forced to pay 15% just to get it back. I think there should be an alternate way of removing your item perhaps after a set amount of time.  

TfxiF3P.png

Something like that would solve it I guess?

Personally I feel like as a noob,you will rarely have something super valuable. You can delete it, or keep it there if its so important for you.

I do agree that it does stifle trading a bit, but what is the opposite. Players constantly trying to push super high values?

With no penalty for trying to "scam" ? Which is what it is.

I agree they should be more clear that you gotta pay the tax, even if the item dont sell.

But having players ask millions for crap, with no consequence will just ruin the marked.

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@PandynatorDD quote:


@mjewell437 quote:

Forcing players to pay the tax to remove the item is very punishing to new players. There should at the very least be a warning to players that they will have to pay to remove the item from the shop if it does not sell. Alternatively it is a very expensive mistake to make if you under price your item and are forced to pay 15% just to get it back. I think there should be an alternate way of removing your item perhaps after a set amount of time.  

TfxiF3P.png

Something like that would solve it I guess?

Personally I feel like as a noob,you will rarely have something super valuable. You can delete it, or keep it there if its so important for you.

I do agree that it does stifle trading a bit, but what is the opposite. Players constantly trying to push super high values?

With no penalty for trying to "scam" ? Which is what it is.

I agree they should be more clear that you gotta pay the tax, even if the item dont sell.

But having players ask millions for crap, with no consequence will just ruin the marked.

A warning like that would be quite helpful. In this instance the item was a perfect mod on a relic, which I believe is very valuable despite being on a low tier item. So in this case I have an item worth more gold than I have total so even a 15% tax to take it down is very significant. 

Allowing players to adjust prices will make adjusting too the new economy much easier. I'm sure people will over-price their items at first since fair prices have not been set yet, however those prices will go down over time, because over priced items won't sell. Punishing players for reposting items at lower prices will only exacerbate this problem.    

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@Laurella quote:

I think the penalty is made for people who'd sell stuff overpriced.

Except that the system punishes you for lowering the price. I WANT to lower the price on my item, but won't because of how penalizing it is to do so. Besides isn't the fact that your overpriced items won't sell punishment enough. Eventually people will lower their prices enough to get items too sell, but this system is preventing that.

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@mjewell437 quote:


@Laurella quote:

I think the penalty is made for people who'd sell stuff overpriced.

Except that the system punishes you for lowering the price. I WANT to lower the price on my item, but won't because of how penalizing it is to do so. Besides isn't the fact that your overpriced items won't sell punishment enough. Eventually people will lower their prices enough to get items too sell, but this system is preventing that.

You have the point and Im sorry I know none about trading~ Its just my thought that if noone buys an overpriced item, the seller would either have to buy his own stuff or destroy it  ^.^

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@LAWLTA quote:

It's a staple in pretty much every game economy to reduce inflation from happening, and 15% is the low-end standard. It serves multiple purposes beyond that, one being for our game specifically is to prevent store space from being used as additional inventory space.

In most games the "tax" comes from actually selling the item. And you have a small listing fee to add your item to a shop/auction house. You dont get totally screwed out of a huge chunk of money if your item does not sell. So no, the way you have this feature is not a staple in most games.


Prevent stores from being additional inventory space? You mean the slots that you have to PAY FOR... WITH REAL MONEY? Otherwise you would have 2 slots. You scared of 2 slots being additional space?


This isnt an auction house feature. No one is going to know what to list their items for because your game doesnt give us any information on what the economy is like and you dont give us free reign to have the ability to figure that out because you're preventing us from removing our items and pricing them lower.

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@LAWLTA quote:

It's a staple in pretty much every game economy to reduce inflation from happening, and 15% is the low-end standard. It serves multiple purposes beyond that, one being for our game specifically is to prevent store space from being used as additional inventory space.

This would be a pretty bad deal, extending the inventory like that, when a slot costs that many gems...

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@LAWLTA quote:

It's a staple in pretty much every game economy to reduce inflation from happening, and 15% is the low-end standard. It serves multiple purposes beyond that, one being for our game specifically is to prevent store space from being used as additional inventory space.

While I don't disagree with the intent or need, I think a couple of things need to be considered. 1) This game economy is not like most game economies. In other games, you can see all stores in one menu, allowing you to compare the prices of comparable products for sale. Without this, it's difficult for the seller to gage what the community deems a fair price. 2)  With the DD2 economy just starting, the in-game economy hasn't stabilized yet, so there is no baseline for "fair" prices. Therefore, a seller doesn't know if they have overpriced or underpriced their items. The only way to know the market value for something is to put it up for sale and see if anyone will buy them. Guess wrong, either too high or too low, and you're screwed. 

At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing the removal penalty relaxed a bit until the economy and prices have a chance to stabilize a bit. 

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@Vindicit quote:

This isnt an auction house feature. No one is going to know what to list their items for because your game doesnt give us any information on what the economy is like and you dont give us free reign to have the ability to figure that out because you're preventing us from removing our items and pricing them lower.

there needs to be a full market listing, of what items exist and which items ACTUALLY sold recently for what prices


without this, no one has any idea what anything is worth without testing the market and then subsequently getting punished by this "removal penalty"

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