Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Daedledood

Feedback on Devstream Info. Very Long Post.

Recommended Posts

So. I am PISSED when it comes to Gilding. I will try to reign that in for this post but it's going to get ranty but honestly I don’t care right now, i'm sure Trendy  expects people like me anyways especially since this is definitely not my first post of this nature. Most of this post will be pasted out of my notes from watching the devstream since it's the best way to present them, the rest will be in a more general format. I would  like to note that I have very bad grammar and apologize if that makes it difficult to read at times but I hope you won't let that affect the message itself, if you need clarification on something I have said just ask and i'll try my best :D. So let's break these things down in as constructive a manner as I can right now.


----- Upgrade/Evolve/Advance -----

These seem fine, I am worried that the new resources will be a bit too grindy for a lot of usage but it doesn't seem too bad from what we have been shown. I am looking forward to having a more reliable way to gear although it will certainly require experiencing it to know for sure where it stands.


----- Tinkering -----

I was initially afraid that you could only transfer one mod at a time from an item but it seems that you can transfer multiple which is good, would have been awful having to scrap a very good roll on an item when it had two of those good rolls. Seems fine over all, interested in seeing how the Mods will work and what can be made.


------ Game Mode/Maps/Trade -----

  • Shorter Campaign is good

  • Adventures seem nice, if you want the story it's there but not required

  • Expeditions are much better than Trials and should have been the system from the start of the Chaos system.

  • The potential crafting materials being listed next to the map is great, would been a pain having to wiki dive for it

  • The economics of these resources will have to be experienced to know for sure if it's going to be excessively grindy

  • Trading seems interesting but I am still worried about the fact that people with crazy AP resets are going to be getting sooooo much more gold even within the same group (which you even joked about….). Inflation is a thing. Farming 500k is ALOT for me, that's nothing for some players

  • Turn on share trading. If you are going to make gilding cost 10 ***ing shards, turn on shard trading at the very least

  • I like that the tinkering resources are tradeable, good stuff

  • The rest of trading seems nice


------ Misc -----

  • 1 Primary, 1 Secondary. Still going to have to see ./shrug

  • Mods WILL be on current gear after transition, about 70% of the pool which is nice. Should give a decent look at what is available

  • Ascension changes seems interesting, it's a bit odd that the Utility tree has so few high cap options but it is whatever. Given the changes to Crit Damage i don't think it will change anything major

  • Incursion weapons = Mods now. Sure? Could be interesting will have to test it out for sure

  • Ancient Power Weapons. Extra rewards, unique weapons with unique mods for characters, tradeable, unique unique unique. (Fix onslaught then im down otherwise I will continue to ignore it. 3 maps for a floor is dumb, remove it please, I want to enjoy it but it REALLY don't enjoy the tedium)

  • Onslaught 80+ gives the fancy materials and there are onslaught exclusive mods specifically for heros. Both have higher chances the higher you push floors. (Refer to previous statement)

  • Techwitch Skin looks really cool, I prefer the black ops skin but this one is SUPER nice

  • The new Two At Twice The Price animation is great. Is that only for Techwitch?

  • AP and Onslaught mods are for hero abilities

  • Campaign and onwards have mods for specific defenses (Example: Ballista will additionally poison enemies)

  • Gilded shards are not better than Hyper shards


------ Gilding -----

And. Here. We. Go.

The following is an example that I have written out based on what I understood during the devstream and what I have based my conclusions on. If this is wrong then please correct me, it's not very useful feedback if its base on a malformed understanding of the system.

(Example: Fortifications base is 2% Defense Health, 1 Upgrade adds 2% Defense Health. Fortification has 16 upgrades for a total of 34% Defense Health. Gilding adds 4 levels bringing that number up to 20 upgrades for a total of 42% Defense Health)

“Something you want to do at end game” that is fine, but this system seems like its ONLY for the people who already have tons of these shards or plan on spending all of their play time shard farming. I am a mechanics person, I like to be as strong as I can be and am more than willing to work for it if the value is there. This system does NOT have good value relative to time invested for a new/returning player though. Why the hell would I combine 10 shards into it while spending 2 million gold for a small percentage? 10 is WAY too many for it to be a reasonable achievement that your average player (myself included) can work towards. The power is there, the utility of not resetting its level when you use AP is there, but the amount of time you need to spend doing content that is completely afk in order to get them is far too much. If I was sitting on 20 of a given shard, it might not be a big deal but if i was to be getting into the game now or coming back like I currently am then 10 puts this so far out of scope that it becomes a completely irrelevant system (although it would still be absurd turning 20 shards into 2 shards for a relatively small amount of power and some admittedly nice utility).

This should be a system that EVERYBODY wants to work towards and that can be reached within a reasonable amount of time. This isn't Mastery with its Hyper Shards, gilding isn't a one-and-done system (from my understanding) so why does a single gilded shard require SOOOOO much investment?

----

“We're comfortable with the number as others have said, it's meant to be an achievement/goal, and not something that is spammed within an hour or two of playing.” - Lawlta

Make it 5 shards. 5 shards is still going to be a LOT of grinding since dusting is a non factor in shard acquisition (10 - 1 is a pathetically bad ratio, i would genuinely rather just have them sell for slightly more gold. 10 - 1 is insultingly expensive). I have played quite a lot of trials (not compared to some but there are very good reasons for it) and have only recently returned to the game and gotten my 5th deadly strikes after a lot of farming in c3 and beyond. I need to keep at least a couple around for other towers which means if I wanted to gild a deadly strikes I would be looking at ~13 or so to maintain usage with your proposed system, with the change to 5 I would need ~8. That is still a LOT of farming but given the likelihood of getting the shard you are after 5 is much more reasonable. Requiring 5 shards still makes it an expensive and time consuming project but it puts it within the scope of the more ‘casual’ player base which I guess I would be included in.

----

“What if Mods made it so that Deadly Strikes wasn't absolutely necessary and you had options to use different shard combinations? Some Mods and Shards share similar features, allowing more unique builds to come through both on Mod selection and Shard selection.”  - Lawlta

What if they do? What if I want them to stack? What if I want to use a shard to leave room for all those cool mods? What if I just want to maximize a shard? What if I just really like gold borders? The issue with this is that there are only so many shards for a given defense and only so many of those shards that are relevant. I want to gild multiple versions of the 'standard' shards. I would want 10 gilded destruction if not more, these aren't shards like Heavy Cannonball that I will only ever need one of. Most of the shards I would want to gild are the all purpose shards, the ones that I could use in just about every tower to great effect, the ones I want multiples of gilded or not. Requiring me to invest 10 of these shards just to make one that is slightly better and immune to AP reset is insane.

----

"We took a look our data on Shard earn rates and player Shard stockpiling, and this end price was significantly lower than what it was originally and what our data would have had us set." - Elandrian

The fact that your data pointed HIGHER tells me that your data is either MAJORLY skewed by stored shards and major veterans, or that you only intended this system to be for the most hardcore of your player base. This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if this wasn't another power affecting system that's for the ‘hardcore’ and it just so happens that this system ties into the other (that being Ancient Power).


------ Dusting -----

Keep this one short since I rant about it above, but 10 - 1 is an absolutely unacceptable ratio for an another RNG chance at a shard. If it was 10 - 1 for an EXACT shard we wanted that would be fine, but it isn't that.


----------------------- Conclusion -----------------------

I am sure  i'm not Trendy's favorite person seeing as almost all of my posts are 'negative' but I don't sit down for almost 3 hours and write this much for a game I hate. I LOVE this game but I want to enjoy my time playing and actually be getting somewhere when I spend an entire day farming. I do NOT post this to hate on Trendy, I post it because I REALLY think that some of these things have to be fixed. If you have made it this far then I thank you for taking so much time out of your day and wish you well. I look forward to any feedback. My stance is not iron, present good information and solid arguments and I may bend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Well said! Some good points there!

I'm actually pretty surprised that shards aren't tradeable....darn.....

BTW, is there other new costumes too? Other than the Techwitch?

I hope so, i seem to remember them mentioning plural costumes but it could easily have been my mistake, that was on the previous devstream (not the most recent) near the end of the Q&A according to my messy notes. Ill always be down for more cool costumes lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Daedledood quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Well said! Some good points there!

I'm actually pretty surprised that shards aren't tradeable....darn.....

BTW, is there other new costumes too? Other than the Techwitch?

I hope so, i seem to remember them mentioning plural costumes but it could easily have been my mistake, that was on the previous devstream (not the most recent) near the end of the Q&A according to my messy notes. Ill always be down for more cool costumes lol.

Twitter post hinted at a something... but now I cant tell if it is EV2 or Gunwitch.

DfrMDYgXUAI2iIH.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Tarius quote:

Twitter post hinted at a something... but now I cant tell if it is EV2 or Gunwitch.

Yeah, I can't even tell at first when I first saw it haha! But the ponytail does spell Gunwitch pretty much. But then, EV2 do have "hair" too haha!

@Daedledood quote:

I am going to guess that is an alt helmet for the Techwitch. they mentioned other parts for it but didnt show any.

Ooh! That's nice! Should be interesting to see what those are!

@Daedledood quote:

I hope so, i seem to remember them mentioning plural costumes but it could easily have been my mistake, that was on the previous devstream (not the most recent) near the end of the Q&A according to my messy notes. Ill always be down for more cool costumes lol.

If I'm not mistaken, the Last devstream I've watch (the first preview of Protean Shift), in the Q&A section, the devs mention there will be two. Wonder what would the second be? Hmmm.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good post

Gating mods and materials behind the insane 3 maps with no save continues to turn away players.

You must make things achievable that are desired or you cause resentment and people will just go to another game that’s fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@TheGreenGolem quote:

I 100% agree, dusting and gilding cost are fed up. 5 for both gilding and dusting would work.

I wouldn't mind the numbers if we could just craft the specific shard that we want. But now.....I'm just not feeling it. Was hoping it to be at most 5 to 7 but I also think 7 might not even cut it either......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once it is set on the 19th there is no going back and Trendy are pretty stubborn going from history, so 10 is it, whether we like it or not. The ONLY thing they could do is increase shard drops in Expeditions to compensate for this poor decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

Once it is set on the 19th there is no going back and Trendy are pretty stubborn going from history, so 10 is it, whether we like it or not. The ONLY thing they could do is increase shard drops in Expeditions to compensate for this poor decision.

Unfortunately I doubt that we will see such a convenience but I guess we will see. Sadly if it goes live at 10 I doubt it will ever change. To many people would *** and moan because they already gilded them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm PISSED that so many whiney babies are complaining about something that hasn't even been made live yet.  It's like listening to a small child complain about how they hate brussels sprouts even though they've never even tried them.   

You also need to realize that the gilding isn't so you can gild every single shard you equip.  It's supposed to be a rare and powerful item you gain after having slaughtered 10 of thousands of nasty little gobo's.   It's an endgame action to help give people who've already hit the ceiling, as far current power goes, a way to increase their power.  It's a mechanic to keep end gamer's playing and new gamers a long term goal to work towards.  

Now stop being a whiney turd and eat your **** brussels sprouts!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Duk420 quote:

I'm PISSED that so many whiney babies are complaining about something that hasn't even been made live yet.  It's like listening to a small child complain about how they hate brussels sprouts even though they've never even tried them.   

-snip-

Do you even realize how idiotic a statement that is? Rhetorical question. 'Complaining' about something that hasn't even been made live yet is EXACTLY how you fix *** that is going to be done wrong. Voicing a concern about a future update is not complaining, if anybody is complaining it's the people ***ing about others trying to voice said concerns. You are welcome to have your opinion on the balance of the feature but i'm not going to have you strolling in and trying to *** because people have issue with a major feature of the next patch/expansion.

While i'm at it, I don't need to have played something to be worried about its balance. This is not a new system like it was going from NM4 to Trials this is an expansion of a current system (that being Shards) and I am quite familiar with farming shards. Before we knew how much they had adjusted the values of Hero Health I and many other where worried that we would have to stack hero health and forsake our damage in order to survive Assassins. Trendy gave us more information about it and that concern was quelled, and later completely reversed (like the tweet with a 1.5mil HP Barbarian). Now I and many others are concerned with the amount of shards required to gild. Rewarding the players who have stuck with your game is good, they spent the time they have the shards and can dive into gilding right away so soon after, but that does not mean that the system should be built around their collection. This system is supposed to ease one of the major issue with AP which is the large gold costs required to continually reset, by making it take 10 shards it means you will have had to ‘naturally’ acquire them through numerous resets or spend a MAJOR amount of time doing content that is otherwise meaningless to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duk420 the only one acting like a child is you troll somewhere else. This was a decent discussion thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to know who exactly has been making the argument that we should be able to gild shards incredibly quickly? 

Am I going crazy? I do not see anybody saying this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No-one is saying it should be easy to gild just that 10 is too high.

Lots of inaccurate maths that it will take x days to gild x shards.

Lots of people were hoping gilding wouldn’t continue the inexorable grindy nature of DD2 and be somewhat accessible. Trendy have a model to make max bags and vaults a must have due to having to hold so many duplicates as you work towards the gilding goal, amongst other space using game requirements.

Just a bit disappointing but understandable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

Duk420 the only one acting like a child is you troll somewhere else. This was a decent discussion thread.

No it wasn't.  Yours and the original posters lack of self awareness is astounding.  There have been several posts that are decent discussions about the upcoming changes but this isn't one of them.  

I started my reply exactly like the original poster with "I'm PISSED".  That is not the start of a decent discussion.  That is the start of a rant, someone expressing their anger, and in this case expressing their anger at something that they haven't even experienced yet.  Did my reply go over well, no, it wasn't meant to.  It was supposed to show how starting with anger in a post about something we all have not experienced yet is childish and dare I say stupid.  He had some valid concerns in his post but they were not presented as concerns.  They were presented as a childish rant so I treated them as such.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Plasma quote:

I would like to know who exactly has been making the argument that we should be able to gild shards incredibly quickly? 

Am I going crazy? I do not see anybody saying this.

Yep. We just want the RNG factor to be taken away or at least lessened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Duk420 quote:

It was supposed to show how starting with anger in a post about something we all have not experienced yet is childish and dare I say stupid.  

I agree that on that (though I woudn't say "childish and stupid" with anger cause that's stupid) if it were on the two stat thing. As there's no doubt we have not experienced M.O.D.S. But this? This clearly spells grindfest that's heavily dependant on RNG. That's why the cost is too high.

Take away the RNG factor and we most likely wouldn't mind this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Duk420 quote:


@Fozzie quote:

Duk420 the only one acting like a child is you troll somewhere else. This was a decent discussion thread.

No it wasn't.  Yours and the original posters lack of self awareness is astounding.  There have been several posts that are decent discussions about the upcoming changes but this isn't one of them.  

I started my reply exactly like the original poster with "I'm PISSED".  That is not the start of a decent discussion.  That is the start of a rant, someone expressing their anger, and in this case expressing their anger at something that they haven't even experienced yet.  Did my reply go over well, no, it wasn't meant to.  It was supposed to show how starting with anger in a post about something we all have not experienced yet is childish and dare I say stupid.  He had some valid concerns in his post but they were not presented as concerns.  They were presented as a childish rant so I treated them as such.    

BS. The original poster criticized game design, admitted he could be wrong, and made clear he was open to counter-arguments. While all you did was insult people. There is a huge, huge difference between someone admitting they are in an emotional state, but trying trying to be constructive; and someone just making ad hominem attacks. The thread started with the former; you brought the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...