Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
123theman123

Gild shards require 10 shards, thoughts

Recommended Posts


@Jaws_420 quote:
@uzar quote:

From the blog notes and also mentioned on  the streams , End game.

The goal for this is to allow players who are pushing in end game Onslaught to increase the power of their favorite and/or most used shards. This is our first step towards adding more goals for end game players that have long lasting impact on their power.

Technically "end-game" would be anything past campaign, as that is where the story ends. 

says "who are pushing in end game Onslaught " . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Tarius quote:


@Tarius quote:

I particularly hate how hero shards drop more frequently than defense shards. 

13 heroes with 5-6 slots each (67), x3 shards is 201 total shard slots.

54 defenses with 1 slot each, x3 shards is 162 total shard slots.

During play, you use multiple defenses at a time, but only one hero. The system is skewed towards heroes when defenses do the heavy lifting.


My math was wrong.  There are only 38 defenses in the game (didnt subtract gunwitch and barb) totaling with 114 shard slots


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

10 is perfect. You get a lot of shards while APing (currently around 1500 shards im hoarding) and this allows you to squeeze a little more power out of your shards while cutting down on inventory space in the long run. 

I will run out of gold before I run out of shards to gild on tuesday.

1500 shards?

8 inventory bags, 64 slots = 512
lets say you have 8 vaults, 64 slots = 512

that would be 1024 slots dedicated to shards.  


Dryad has 25 defense slots and 30 hero slots, totaling 55 slots total.  To make up the difference you would need 9 dryad-like heroes to use as Shard Mules at best. (9 x 55 = 495)


In gaming terms that would make you a Whale.  Because if you didnt have 8 vault slots (real $ required), that would be another 10+ heroes acting as pure shard mules.  


Possible? yeah.  Reasonable? NO.
This is an extreme.  


The 1% of players that have nothing better to do than AP Reset for the 20th time.  That is an indication that additional content is required for those players.  It is not an indication that a new mechanic, announced to the entire player population, should only be reasonably achieved by the 1% of the playerbase willing to do the unreasonable.


Math is way off. all 12 vault bags, half my inventory 4 of 8 bags (other half is sell bags) and currently 56 characters holding anywhere between a few and 27 shards

so 768 vault spots, 513 from inventory, and i currently can hold on avg 27 shards on 56 characters so 1512 there. (and u can have up to 64 characters). So i have a potential 2793 shard holding capacity atm. 


Besides any of that of course they are going to keep making content, onslaught patch was over 6 months ago.

This patch just made APing a lot faster (trading...)

This is a grinding rng loot game at its core. This just added a lot of stuff to do at end game for min maxing and floor pushing.

So you're basically saying that this new gilding mechanic is OK just the way it is because you play 24/7 and have more shards than 99% of the population does? Thats just stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

       This thread seems to contain a lot of focus on the number of shards required for gilding, but I don't believe that the specific number is the issue.   Instead, I believe that the problem seems to lie with how the system appears to be implemented.   I believe that the implementation of the system could be changed without changing the number of shards required.   Ill explain my reasoning below.

       As I understand the current system, we need to collect 10 shards and burn them at the same time in order to gild a shard.   As people have noted previously in this discussion, that type of system treats all shards the same be effectively ignoring the difference in drop rates between less common shards (such as deadly strikes) and more common hero shards.   As a result, the benefit of gilding shards is so far in the late game that you likely wont make use of it (for any shards that you want to use it for) until you finish your AP resets.   As a result, those of us that were looking forward to gilding being a tool to make AP resets less painful have been seriously disappointed.

       In my opinion, the entire problem can be resolved by changing the 10 shard at a time sacrifice into a step-by-step process.   For example, the gilding process could be implemented in a multi-step process which provides increasingly more protection from AP resets where the final benefit is the bonus upgrade levels.   One way to implement such a system would be to have the gilding process take 5 steps where each step requires two shards to be sacrificed.   The first 4 steps could provide 25% reduced upgrade costs while the final step provided the extra upgrade levels.   The result of such an implementation of the system would be to make gilding (and the AP resets) more accessible to ALL players while still holding back the intended end-game bonus.   Furthermore, it would provide a way to steadily progress to end game (similar to how the new passives appear to work) that does not feel like a long grind.

       Though I am sure that there are other considerations that the devs have to take into account when implementing changes int he way that they did, I do hope that the consider changing the gilding system to be more incremental in a way that does not make it too easy (such as lowering the required number of shards for gilding) but at the same time provides steady progress.

       I should reiterate, I don't agree with most of the previous points about the 10 shard requirement being too much.   I only disagree with how it was implemented because it puts the gilding system completely out of reach of new and more casual players (when applied to the tower shards that really matter for progression).



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trendy has catered to pretty much one type of player - and no complaints on that type of player - and seems to forget how DD1 found a way to embrace all types in all modes.  It's quite odd where we see the push to only appease the smallest group of players they retain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@RustyCounterweight quote:

 -snip-

Yeah I agree. I don't mind the number. If the process just hasn't be too dependent with RNG. If it's meant for long term, then fine. But this feels like looooooong term where RNG can screw you and blast you a dose of possibly months or years.

Though your idea of breaking down the upgrades into steps is pretty neat. That might solve the inv issue for many. Probably.

And yeah, like many I thought this is a way to make AP accessible to more too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@jaden198 quote:


@024noi quote:

All the math ._.. It dosnt matter how many shards r in game or how many maps it takes to farm or laws of averages. U dont need to gild every shard in the game, just the heros u enjoy using. I dislike dps as lavamancer, but i have 1 for fissures. Dont care bout shards fot him. Dryad, mystic, monk and gunwitch, only heros i care bout. Only want to gild shards for them. Shards like DS and PT are powerful and r supposed to be hard to come by. Dont gild them or just do 1 or 2 for key derences. I guess what im trying to say is you dont have unlock all aspects of the game to enjoy it. Prioritize the heroes you enjoy playing with. The rest can remain vanilla.

I don't mind the 10 shards to gild.  There is, however, definitely a problem regarding the RNG/Grinding low level content endlessly for casual players.  I've acquired 6-7 Deadly Strikes in the time that I've played.  I can't reasonably gild until I hit 16-17.  Burning the 10 you have cripples 9 of your towers.  I recall the days of having 1 DS, I'd prefer not to return to it.  

Yeah, me too. Gilding will possibly cripple me at this time. Most of my defense power shards have not even passed the 10th mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took a 3 month break from DD2 and played overwatch. Started playing again cuz of up coming expansion. In two weeks I've farmed enough gold and shard to gild 12 different shards. I play alot, yes, bur what i can do in 4-5 hrs a day in two weeks, anyone can do in a few months playing a couple hrs a day. Ya'll making it sound like we'll all b old and gray before we have the resourse to utilize this system. I call BS. Peps need to learn patience. So u won't have gilded DS on all ur towers anytime soon. U didn't have them before and the game was still fun yes?  Gild all the common ones, will save u gold so u can afford to up ur rare shards durring your play throughs. Personally i only plan on gilding 1 DS and moving it to key defense of my build of the moment like i do with VS. Have no plans on gilding any PT, DR, VE, etc.I will however gild all of the more common shards asap to make reseting more efficient. Besides it's not like u use evey hero in the same build (outside of mastery). I hate swapping heroes out of my library durring my builds. Takes to long. None of my builds utilize more than 3-5 heroes. I got no problem shuffling shards around to set up the builders im gonna use pre game. Already do with hyper shards. Pretty sure u will get more power out of different mod combos any way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 shards seemed like a high number to me at first, but 5 would definetely be too low IMO, so on second thought, I think TE landed at a good number. 

I´m lucky enough to have 10+ of many of the most sought after shards, so it doesn´t matter that much to me, but even if that wasn´t the case, I would still want gilded shards to feel special, and hard(-ish) to earn. 

* I do think the jackpot shard could use a serious boost though, so players have an easier time saving up gold for each reset, especially if they don´t yet have enough shards for gilding. I mean it´s called "jackpot" for christs sake, not "pocket lint"goblin.png


Pretty excited about today, haven´t played in 2-3 months:)

M.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, 10 seemed like WTF Trendy, when they first announced it. However I can see where they are coming from. Business dictates you make money and gems is where they will make that money. I noticed gem numbers on more of the UIs this time round, and I know I have been tempted to get more bags\vaults, in fact I did buy 2 more vault slots, I had the gems sitting around since the barbarian.

They could have softened the blow with mooting the amount very early on, even saying it was 15 then saying they listened to the feedback and dropped it to 10, typical BS marketing move but works every time.

I am looking forward to the mods and seeing what they are like and clearing out some of my inventory of useless relics\armour if they suck. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@MaJean quote:

* I do think the jackpot shard could use a serious boost though, so players have an easier time saving up gold for each reset, especially if they don´t yet have enough shards for gilding. I mean it´s called "jackpot" for christs sake, not "pocket lint"goblin.png

Hahaha! Definitely agreed! Gold have risen in importance now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@024noi quote:

I hate swapping heroes out of my library durring my builds. Takes to long. None of my builds utilize more than 3-5 heroes. I got no problem shuffling shards around to set up the builders im gonna use pre game. 

Which means that you don't really do dupes heroes to utilize the Asc points? Just one of each type of hero? To be honest. I don't really like doing that either, did that once during launch until I got sick of it. I only went back to that when Mastery and Onslaught came out.

Just curious here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@MaJean quote:

10 shards seemed like a high number to me at first, but 5 would definetely be too low IMO, so on second thought, I think TE landed at a good number. 

I´m lucky enough to have 10+ of many of the most sought after shards, so it doesn´t matter that much to me, but even if that wasn´t the case, I would still want gilded shards to feel special, and hard(-ish) to earn. 

* I do think the jackpot shard could use a serious boost though, so players have an easier time saving up gold for each reset, especially if they don´t yet have enough shards for gilding. I mean it´s called "jackpot" for christs sake, not "pocket lint"goblin.png


Pretty excited about today, haven´t played in 2-3 months:)

M.


Agreed. I run jackpot cuz every little bit helps, but it's such a LITTLE bit somes wonder if i even make back the investment cost of upgrading it in the first place. A little luv for that shard would b nice. He he he ...Pocket lint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@024noi quote:

I hate swapping heroes out of my library durring my builds. Takes to long. None of my builds utilize more than 3-5 heroes. I got no problem shuffling shards around to set up the builders im gonna use pre game. 

Which means that you don't really do dupes heroes to utilize the Asc points? Just one of each type of hero? To be honest. I don't really like doing that either, did that once during launch until I got sick of it. I only went back to that when Mastery and Onslaught came out.

Just curious here.

Ya i run duplicate heroes. Example, if im building dryad, dps builds trees, then 1 each for hornets and slimes, and a monk for skyguards as they r cheaper and more effective than nimbus. If im building mystic monk, dps builds walls and oblisks, then 3 monks for SG, LSA and FA. If if building huntress,  a mystic for walls and sand traps ( dont need 2 b huge just a stall and boost from sandstorm), and 3 elves. Dps, PDT, and blaze balloons. Etc.... When i get high enough ascension, i do make hybrid heroes so ican run more diverse builds. A monk to build SG and FA, a dryad t o build trees and horents, a mysti to build walls and better sandtraps, etc. But only for trials. Onslaught requires all my big boy builders.        :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

They could have softened the blow with mooting the amount very early on, even saying it was 15 then saying they listened to the feedback and dropped it to 10, typical BS marketing move but works every time.

It was set at 20, and via testing feedback we made a fight for it to be lowered, and now it's 10. If you'd prefer the manufactured back and forth on the forums first, we can do that, but it just seems like unnecessary drama. Would rather be forthcoming about what the features are, and explain why we choose that number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@LAWLTA quote:


@Fozzie quote:

They could have softened the blow with mooting the amount very early on, even saying it was 15 then saying they listened to the feedback and dropped it to 10, typical BS marketing move but works every time.

It was set at 20, and via testing feedback we made a fight for it to be lowered, and now it's 10. If you'd prefer the manufactured back and forth on the forums first, we can do that, but it just seems like unnecessary drama. Would rather be forthcoming about what the features are, and explain why we choose that number.

This whole thread sames like unnecessary drama, the updates not even live yet and its to close release to b making any changes now lol. I for 1 am super excited 4 ALL the new systems. Thanks lawlta and team team trendy for all your hard work! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to say my peace. 

I think that having end game content in a game isn't a bad idea. Many people are displeased by this, and many are happy, and also many people don't care or don't know. From my perspective as a hardcore DD1 main, I've been looking for something to grind on that wasn't impossible, but had immediate meaningful benefits the moment it was completed. This game felt like you could reach end game gear very quickly and it was... boring. I haven't put very much time into DD2 in comparison to the time I put into DD1 simply due to the fact that it had nothing to really aim for. 

In addition, the rest was great, but the biggest thing that upset me was .. shards. I like doing what I like to do not because it is great, or BIS, or anything I just like my set up. I've gotten really far and done really well with what I have but i've had a hard time consistently playing due to the fact that I felt like it lacked that play through that I needed like the super high level armor that I could grind in aquanos+ for. Now, this gives me a side thing to work on that doesn't reset that i'm so excited for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@ladriel quote:

I would like to say my peace. 

I think that having end game content in a game isn't a bad idea. Many people are displeased by this, and many are happy, and also many people don't care or don't know. From my perspective as a hardcore DD1 main, I've been looking for something to grind on that wasn't impossible, but had immediate meaningful benefits the moment it was completed. This game felt like you could reach end game gear very quickly and it was... boring. I haven't put very much time into DD2 in comparison to the time I put into DD1 simply due to the fact that it had nothing to really aim for. 

In addition, the rest was great, but the biggest thing that upset me was .. shards. I like doing what I like to do not because it is great, or BIS, or anything I just like my set up. I've gotten really far and done really well with what I have but i've had a hard time consistently playing due to the fact that I felt like it lacked that play through that I needed like the super high level armor that I could grind in aquanos+ for. Now, this gives me a side thing to work on that doesn't reset that i'm so excited for.

Exactly!  Thats why i stopped playing for a while and went back to overwatch. Resetting ever few days was boring, just the same game over and over. Now i will b back burnering overwatch and playing the crap out of DD2! Now we have a reasn to play, something to work towards, new toys to play with!  Just all the fun new combos to b found, mixed and matched in the mods system. JOY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@LAWLTA quote:


snip

It was set at 20, and via testing feedback we made a fight for it to be lowered, and now it's 10. If you'd prefer the manufactured back and forth on the forums first, we can do that, but it just seems like unnecessary drama. Would rather be forthcoming about what the features are, and explain why we choose that number.

In the dim distant past before you were around there was the influence votes. I appreciate they may have just been lip service but we did get an inkling of a feeling that the players actually mattered to Trendy. So yes I'd like the manufactured back and forth again, at least that way we wouldn't get shocked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already uninstalled.

The amount for shard glided is fine. It's meant to be grindy for a power upgrade. But I'm going to heavily disagree with the shard dust mechanic that was implemented. One of the worst aspects in the game was not even fixed. Instead it was given a bandage.

Even if glided shards need 10, it honestly does not sound that bad on paper. But then you realise with shard dusting you're only getting an extra shard everyone 4 or 5 dungeon runs. To top it off, that's not even factoring shard drops for heroes you don't own or even the random extra shard you're getting. And you also need specific shards.


I don't mind grinding if its interactive. But please do not tell me or the majority of players sitting in c3 and c4 afking for shards, that the grinding is in there for it to be 'hard'. I've been ranting about this since 2 weeks ago. Was a bit excited since this update has some interesting aspects but when the core aspect of your game is shard grinding. It's a bit difficult to get back into the game. I logged in for 10 mins then closed because I honestly could not be bothered doing the same thing I was doing a month ago while being slapped by RNG when opening shards.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Increase is sooooo  minimal ! 😄 I don’t even see a diff with my world Tree. Vicious and Gilded DS do nothing. Seems exactly the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Manufactured drama? I guess we will see in 6 months when people only have one DS shard gilded and they now have to grind for months and months and months on end for just that second one (let alone #'s 3-6) before we start to see the forums fill up with complaints about it. If you want it to be more clear - this is an issue about drop rates actually, not necessary shard amounts, but they go hand in hand. Giving equal drop rates for things that are only needed once versus 600% of, makes the 10 amount the issue that it is, not to mention low drop rates of the item you need 600% of. Reduce the rarity of the shards that are needed for more than one defense, and there is no longer an issue. The fact that you (supposedly) have equal drop rates for EV2's Shard to add an extra node to WM and Deadly Strikes - should tell you all you need to know. A defense you barely care about and only ever need 10 of, if you even wanted that one - comes like water, flowing all the time. I have opened so many of these WM shards, it makes my eyes hurt. I could have gilded that shard like 5 times over by now. But DS???? Lucky if you see one in weeks and weeks of play. Don't worry though, you only need 60 of them now. Then there is the whole bag space issue not being addressed. That will go nuclear at some point. There are going to be a lot of pissed off people a few months from now, and when that starts to fill up forum complaints - i am so going to reference this post. And if not - i will gladly eat my words. 

I guess the world has to be on fire before some people consider putting it out. I like to put fires out before they even catch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:
In the dim distant past before you were around there was the influence votes. I appreciate they may have just been lip service but we did get an inkling of a feeling that the players actually mattered to Trendy. So yes I'd like the manufactured back and forth again, at least that way we wouldn't get shocked.

That sounds like a terrible way to do it. There's two ways that goes:

1. Any decision voted on by the community that is bad balance and needed to be changed would be guaranteed negative feedback. 

2. If we made a system that basically setup players to vote the way we were going to do things anyways would be incredibly deceptive and if figured out would create a very torn trust from the community. (this is more or less what you've outlined above by setting it to 15, and then letting the community vote for it to be our intended 10)

If you want to have input in balance, features, and changes before they go live, or not be "shocked" by new systems, we have our RPG and RQA groups that are free to join as long as you're 18+, and don't require a ton of time. Manipulating the community into rigged voting is something we are not entertaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

So you cater for the extreme gamers and not allowing things to be attainable to the wider audience. This would have been a decent question to ASK your audience beforehand and not just look at numbers.

An observation that is often overlooked or responded to.  Or the design mentality has them pigeon holed and they can't escape this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every one stop. Dont gild your DS shards the range gain is minimal and its really not that expensive to up grade after reset. Do gild shards that are super expensive to upgrade. Some cost 500k plus to up so in 4 resets you recoup the 2 mill it costs to gild. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...