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123theman123

Gild shards require 10 shards, thoughts

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

So yeah, like Exglint said, the Hardcore destroys content. I and I think I can speak for some too, just want to play the content and enjoy the game at an AVERAGE PACE. Sure, I definitely wouldn't mind some sprinkle of Hardcore, but I don't really know about this....

Exglint says a lot of things, but his opinion isnt more or less valid than the next player. He also will probably be asked questions about gilding on stream about his thoughts of it and give his official stance which will probably be ignored because he is one of the players this system is targeted towards and people will know that. :P

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This glide system is the weirdest part of the whole update.

It's supposed to benefits AP farmers, but it doesn't. You always get enough gold per run to upgrade everything you need. Why would you want to slow down and farm enormous amount of maps to negate that cost?

It's supposed to help you progress further in onslaught and yet it forces you to not play onslaught for an extensive period of time. It's obviously going to help you in a long run, but i'm not sure that this run is going to be longer than the shard farming itself.

In the devstream we saw that gliding Fortification shard results in additional 4 upgrade levels (additional 8% DH boost). That's a whole 25% increase in that specific shard power. 10 shards glide sounds fair with those numbers actually. And yet it still doesn't worth the effort. I really appreciate that we have an option to farm for something, but i can't see why would anyone do that.

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@Exglint quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

So yeah, like Exglint said, the Hardcore destroys content. I and I think I can speak for some too, just want to play the content and enjoy the game at an AVERAGE PACE. Sure, I definitely wouldn't mind some sprinkle of Hardcore, but I don't really know about this....

Exglint says a lot of things, but his opinion isnt more or less valid than the next player. He also will probably be asked questions about gilding on stream about his thoughts of it and give his official stance which will probably be ignored because he is one of the players this system is targeted towards and people will know that. :P

Yeah, I was considering on that factor. Now did I just threw a boomerang at my myself? Haha....

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:

whats an average pace? hour a day? Onslaughts been out for 6 months, takes about 12 hours for a ap reset. So at a hour a day thats 1 reset every two weeks. At that rate the average players should be at least ap 12.

that would also be 27 onslaught maps x 12 ap x 3 shards per map 

and

7 chaos, 3 map per tier x 12 ap x 2 shards per map.

the average player would then have 1476 shards from playing a hour a day for 6 months and have 12 ap

Keep in mind that I had to hit 114 first, and (definitely more that an hour per a day) and that sucked up nearly 3 months. I also don't have 12 vaults so I do delete my shards to save space.

The point is, you guys are able do what the Hardcore does that the RNG effect may not seem to effect to you that much. But to us it is. We could possibly see years for us to gild up the shards that we want. 

If we could just be able to craft a specific shard, it won't be that bad for us. We don't need to have to go hardcore pace to do this stuff.

I'm not asking that this process to be sped up, I just want the RNG factor to lessen.

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@123theman123 quote:

that a great question to ask yourself, many ask it. HELL i even ask myself it. this game always been a RNG loot base game. i agree they need to add some mid game stuff/ fun mode to  get away from the grind. if you want to enjoy the game at a average pace, GO AHEAD, that your choice and many others. there are always hardcore players in any game that makes your efforts look like crap or highly skill players that easily out pace you with the same time spent.  

Exactly. Hardcore is able to destroy content not necessarily a bad thing but there are also the demographics factor to consider.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

whats an average pace? hour a day? Onslaughts been out for 6 months, takes about 12 hours for a ap reset. So at a hour a day thats 1 reset every two weeks. At that rate the average players should be at least ap 12.

that would also be 27 onslaught maps x 12 ap x 3 shards per map 

and

7 chaos, 3 map per tier x 12 ap x 2 shards per map.

the average player would then have 1476 shards from playing a hour a day for 6 months and have 12 ap

Keep in mind that I had to hit 114 first, and (definitely more that an hour per a day) and that sucked up nearly 3 months. I also don't have 12 vaults so I do delete my shards to save space.

The point is, you guys are able do what the Hardcore does that the RNG effect may not seem to effect to you that much. But to us it is. We could possibly see years for us to gild up the shards that we want. 

If we could just be able to craft a specific shard, it won't be that bad for us. We don't need to have to go hardcore pace to do this stuff.

I'm not asking that this process to be sped up, I just want the RNG factor to lessen.

what if shards were divided into hero shards and tower shards and each had a equal chance of dropping and you could buy them that way.

So beat c3 chest had 50% chance to drop c3 hero shard or c3 defense shard. you could also buy a c3 defense pack for dust in this example.

reduces rng but keeps it in game. seems a good balance

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

-snip-

-snip-

what if shards were divided into hero shards and tower shards and each had a equal chance of dropping and you could buy them that way.

So beat c3 chest had 50% chance to drop c3 hero shard or c3 defense shard. you could also buy a c3 defense pack for dust in this example.

reduces rng but keeps it in game. seems a good balance

This would be substantially better then the current plan. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that most people (from what I have read) take issue with the extreme RNG factor in gathering 10 of the same shard. If the 10 cost is set in stone, then address the acquisition. Dusting should have done this but in its current form it is irrelevant when it comes to farming a specific shard. I would still prefer being able to turn dust into the EXACT shard i'm after, but  narrowing the pool would help.

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

whats an average pace? hour a day? Onslaughts been out for 6 months, takes about 12 hours for a ap reset. So at a hour a day thats 1 reset every two weeks. At that rate the average players should be at least ap 12.

that would also be 27 onslaught maps x 12 ap x 3 shards per map 

and

7 chaos, 3 map per tier x 12 ap x 2 shards per map.

the average player would then have 1476 shards from playing a hour a day for 6 months and have 12 ap

Keep in mind that I had to hit 114 first, and (definitely more that an hour per a day) and that sucked up nearly 3 months. I also don't have 12 vaults so I do delete my shards to save space.

The point is, you guys are able do what the Hardcore does that the RNG effect may not seem to effect to you that much. But to us it is. We could possibly see years for us to gild up the shards that we want. 

If we could just be able to craft a specific shard, it won't be that bad for us. We don't need to have to go hardcore pace to do this stuff.

I'm not asking that this process to be sped up, I just want the RNG factor to lessen.

what if shards were divided into hero shards and tower shards and each had a equal chance of dropping and you could buy them that way.

So beat c3 chest had 50% chance to drop c3 hero shard or c3 defense shard. you could also buy a c3 defense pack for dust in this example.

reduces rng but keeps it in game. seems a good balance

Ideally, I would personally prefer specific shard crafting, but anything but the current RNG works. So yeah, I would be cool with this I guess.

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:

whats an average pace? hour a day? Onslaughts been out for 6 months, takes about 12 hours for a ap reset. So at a hour a day thats 1 reset every two weeks. At that rate the average players should be at least ap 12.

that would also be 27 onslaught maps x 12 ap x 3 shards per map 

and

7 chaos, 3 map per tier x 12 ap x 2 shards per map.

the average player would then have 1476 shards from playing a hour a day for 6 months and have 12 ap

There are 225 shards in game. Assuming your math is correct, and an even distribution of shards, that means the average player has 6.5of any shards they cared enough to keep every time it dropped; meaning they are still 3-4 months away from being able to gild even one of whichever shards are most important to them. And that is assuming they are comfortable going back to only having 1 of those shards.

However, there are only 56 players, across all platforms, who have 12 or more Ancient Power, according to the leaderboards right now. I don't look at them often though, so maybe they stopped updating a while back? If not, I think you are vastly over-estimating where the average player is at, AP wise. That's why I expected devs to try and make AP more accessible, and have been so disappointed they actually made it less. One quality of life change for the hardcore players, but even more lost with each AP reset now that you added mods and will have to upgrade gear not just swap it out.

I kind of wonder if the devs, when making their calculations, only counted players who had some minimum amount of AP. I really wonder what they view as an acceptable number of hours played per time a player gets to utilize this new system.

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All the math ._.. It dosnt matter how many shards r in game or how many maps it takes to farm or laws of averages. U dont need to gild every shard in the game, just the heros u enjoy using. I dislike dps as lavamancer, but i have 1 for fissures. Dont care bout shards fot him. Dryad, mystic, monk and gunwitch, only heros i care bout. Only want to gild shards for them. Shards like DS and PT are powerful and r supposed to be hard to come by. Dont gild them or just do 1 or 2 for key derences. I guess what im trying to say is you dont have unlock all aspects of the game to enjoy it. Prioritize the heroes you enjoy playing with. The rest can remain vanilla.

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@024noi quote:

All the math ._.. It dosnt matter how many shards r in game or how many maps it takes to farm or laws of averages. U dont need to gild every shard in the game, just the heros u enjoy using. I dislike dps as lavamancer, but i have 1 for fissures. Dont care bout shards fot him. Dryad, mystic, monk and gunwitch, only heros i care bout. Only want to gild shards for them. Shards like DS and PT are powerful and r supposed to be hard to come by. Dont gild them or just do 1 or 2 for key derences. I guess what im trying to say is you dont have unlock all aspects of the game to enjoy it. Prioritize the heroes you enjoy playing with. The rest can remain vanilla.

It's great you're content with playing the game in the manner you stated. Some of us aren't, and there's nothing wrong with discussing why and how to make it better,

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@Tolkmit quote:


@024noi quote:

All the math ._.. It dosnt matter how many shards r in game or how many maps it takes to farm or laws of averages. U dont need to gild every shard in the game, just the heros u enjoy using. I dislike dps as lavamancer, but i have 1 for fissures. Dont care bout shards fot him. Dryad, mystic, monk and gunwitch, only heros i care bout. Only want to gild shards for them. Shards like DS and PT are powerful and r supposed to be hard to come by. Dont gild them or just do 1 or 2 for key derences. I guess what im trying to say is you dont have unlock all aspects of the game to enjoy it. Prioritize the heroes you enjoy playing with. The rest can remain vanilla.

It's great you're content with playing the game in the manner you stated. Some of us aren't, and there's nothing wrong with discussing why and how to make it better,

Nope nothing at all. Thats my point. Play how u wanna. Trendy is a small team of designers and having taken programing in school i realize how much work goes into a huge update like this. I for one im really, REALLY  greatful for it as is. Discussion or debates require different points of view yes? Just was stating mine. If you like it let it b and if you dont u can do the same. 10 shards is way less than i thought it was gonna b so im stoked. Ya'll can whine and nit pick but while u do i will b happily farming shards playing a game i enjoy. Just opened 2 more PT today. Found a DS yesterday. The shards will come to those who play.

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@123theman123 quote:


@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

Right. I luv that part ... Future long term players. Exactly! If everything was easy and quick i would b bored with the game in a month. This new content isnt 4 new players, its to entice new players into becoming long term og players. Im stoked to have these new systems cuz they give me something to work towards, some reason to keep playing for the long term. Ya'll complaining about how much time it will take ... Its time spent playing a super fun game. Complain about waiting in lines or long layovers on a flight, ya know waisted time.  Lack of time to play is a  scheduling problem, a u problem u should work on. Trendy should cater to u? Meanwhile the rest of us will b happily killing ogres for hours on end now that we have content for the long term. 

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The elation to deflation is understandable as many people were looking forward to trying out gilding but with 10 being the number it has kind of snatched it out of reach for the majority of the playerbase.

Trendy may have positioned it as a longer term goal but they failed, as usual, to realistically set expectations. Hence the upswell of disappointment.

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not sure if they can be bought n sold in the market place but if they cant they will prob ad them i'm just worried about my precious inventory space now that you need 10 to guild i've only got 2 bags and 2 vault just saving shards to prepare to guild is easily going to fill up a bag plus all the new crafting items which haha they announce in dev stream oh like alot like around 35  thats like a bag come on let me anoth 1-2 bags with 12k defender medals you'll end up locking all free players out just cos invs full of progression mats

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@Acenf quote:

not sure if they can be bought n sold in the market place but if they cant they will prob ad them i'm just worried about my precious inventory space now that you need 10 to guild i've only got 2 bags and 2 vault just saving shards to prepare to guild is easily going to fill up a bag plus all the new crafting items which haha they announce in dev stream oh like alot like around 35  thats like a bag come on let me anoth 1-2 bags with 12k defender medals you'll end up locking all free players out just cos invs full of progression mats

Shards aren't tradeable in the Marketplace unfortunately.

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@Acenf quote:

not sure if they can be bought n sold in the market place but if they cant they will prob ad them i'm just worried about my precious inventory space now that you need 10 to guild i've only got 2 bags and 2 vault just saving shards to prepare to guild is easily going to fill up a bag plus all the new crafting items which haha they announce in dev stream oh like alot like around 35  thats like a bag come on let me anoth 1-2 bags with 12k defender medals you'll end up locking all free players out just cos invs full of progression mats

Now that would solve the issue right there. Great idea  :)

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@Fozzie quote:

The elation to deflation is understandable as many people were looking forward to trying out gilding but with 10 being the number it has kind of snatched it out of reach for the majority of the playerbase.

Trendy may have positioned it as a longer term goal but they failed, as usual, to realistically set expectations. Hence the upswell of disappointment.

Im sure DD2 will b around for years to come. Plenty of time for even casual players to accomplish their goals. Patience people. All good things r worth waiting/working for. Besides trendy's always tweeking systems. It may be that this process will become easier in time. The update isnt even out yet.Lets see how it plays out before we condemn all trendy's hard work on what is a major overhaul to the game. They're adding a ton of content b greatful. Its better than NOT having these new systems to play around with and the game becoming stale.

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

I think its reasonable given their permanence and power. It makes sense that gaining them would be an effort.

you are totally wrong here.

Their goal is permanence not power, but since permanence is only valuable at the start of a "journey" it makes sense they are achievable in a "small" timeframe, otherwise you wouldn't even care.


It is like a bonus in a RPG like "gain 2 STR for each level up" but if the game has 50 levels and you are lvl 45 you dont care anymore of gaining such a bonus.


If it is so hard as it seems to gain BEFORE DOING AP then it feels pointless to me.

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The goal is small increase in power, and a small save on gold. 

Its quicker to farm gold then farm the 10 shards. However, if you are APing, you come across a lot of shards, so about 1/3 of the way through the AP grind you have started acquiring enough shards to gild them. Since its a 2 mill goldsink to gild them its still not saving you money for another dozen or so AP but now you have the shard gilded, its giving you more power, which should make APing a little bit easier.

At the end of the day the systems not needed. It helps with something to do with the extra shards but the gold costs and the time to farm dont offset the "permanence" argument. Its another incremental power increase system that is tied to long term play and will be part of end game min/maxing.

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@Fozzie quote:

The elation to deflation is understandable as many people were looking forward to trying out gilding but with 10 being the number it has kind of snatched it out of reach for the majority of the playerbase.

Trendy may have positioned it as a longer term goal but they failed, as usual, to realistically set expectations. Hence the upswell of disappointment.

Exactly. While we got more info from them, and i AM SO HAPPY about that fact, part of what we wanted was a road map, not just info. We want to know how they intend for these feature to work, and who they are aimed at. 

If Gilding had been introduced as a Top End feature for AP runners, and not something for the masses - i think we would have been much less taken back by how it was setup and the numbers involved. We would understand why it was so far out of our reach - although, that does not mean we would like it any more/less, but at least we would understand it's idea. 

If Gilding is meant to be for everyone - complete fail. Going under the assumption that all shards are equal and we need equal amounts of all was a complete fallacy. Shards that are used on every def should drop at an INCREASED rate, not a lessor one, as they currently do. If i only ever needed to gild a single DS shard, so that all my DS shards were gilded - i would acquiesce in this argument. But needing around 60 of them?!?!?! That is nucking futs. 

So in a sense it was not gilding that failed, but a lack of clear vision on how gilding was supposed to work for all DD2 players. At least then, if you knew you were supposed to be left out - that part would not be a shock, like it is now. Given to us as an option to all - just salted the wound and shocked the holy heck out of most of us. TE needs to be clear when they put something out only meant for the leaderboards, as gilding clearly is. 

Then we could at least limit this argument to how the idea of gilding was off, and those of us left out want to be included. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:

So in a sense it was not gilding that failed, but a lack of clear vision on how gilding was supposed to work for all DD2 players. 

From the blog notes and also mentioned on  the streams , End game.

The goal for this is to allow players who are pushing in end game Onslaught to increase the power of their favorite and/or most used shards. This is our first step towards adding more goals for end game players that have long lasting impact on their power.

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@024noi quote:

All the math ._.. It dosnt matter how many shards r in game or how many maps it takes to farm or laws of averages. U dont need to gild every shard in the game, just the heros u enjoy using. I dislike dps as lavamancer, but i have 1 for fissures. Dont care bout shards fot him. Dryad, mystic, monk and gunwitch, only heros i care bout. Only want to gild shards for them. Shards like DS and PT are powerful and r supposed to be hard to come by. Dont gild them or just do 1 or 2 for key derences. I guess what im trying to say is you dont have unlock all aspects of the game to enjoy it. Prioritize the heroes you enjoy playing with. The rest can remain vanilla.

The point of unlocking all the characters, for me anyway, was so that I could play them.  The game has already been skewed toward a select few characters....Dryad....  I understand what you're saying about not needing every shard in the game, but this sure feels like a bunch of my characters are going to fade even further into the background.

Another fun aspect to mention.  What happens when I dump all my time and resources into a couple specific characters and then they get rebalanced?  There've been a few re-balancings in the history of this game.  Imagine the joy of the character you've boosted getting nerfed.

I don't mind the 10 shards to gild.  There is, however, definitely a problem regarding the RNG/Grinding low level content endlessly for casual players.  I've acquired 6-7 Deadly Strikes in the time that I've played.  I can't reasonably gild until I hit 16-17.  Burning the 10 you have cripples 9 of your towers.  I recall the days of having 1 DS, I'd prefer not to return to it.  

I also understand that the system is likely to result in folks buying shard packs, but the RNG in those is likely to generate some negative vibes as well.  As always, there's a balance to be kept between the playerbase and the company profits.

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@Jaws_420 quote:

Exactly. While we got more info from them, and i AM SO HAPPY about that fact, part of what we wanted was a road map, not just info. We want to know how they intend for these feature to work, and who they are aimed at. 

If Gilding had been introduced as a Top End feature for AP runners, and not something for the masses - i think we would have been much less taken back by how it was setup and the numbers involved. We would understand why it was so far out of our reach - although, that does not mean we would like it any more/less, but at least we would understand it's idea. 

If Gilding is meant to be for everyone - complete fail. Going under the assumption that all shards are equal and we need equal amounts of all was a complete fallacy. Shards that are used on every def should drop at an INCREASED rate, not a lessor one, as they currently do. If i only ever needed to gild a single DS shard, so that all my DS shards were gilded - i would acquiesce in this argument. But needing around 60 of them?!?!?! That is nucking futs. 

So in a sense it was not gilding that failed, but a lack of clear vision on how gilding was supposed to work for all DD2 players. At least then, if you knew you were supposed to be left out - that part would not be a shock, like it is now. Given to us as an option to all - just salted the wound and shocked the holy heck out of most of us. TE needs to be clear when they put something out only meant for the leaderboards, as gilding clearly is. 

Then we could at least limit this argument to how the idea of gilding was off, and those of us left out want to be included. 

Quoted for emphasis. Gilding seems great for the 100 or so players actually grinding AP into double digits. But far too out of reach for the rest of us. I think it would have been smarter to present it from the beginning as such. Instead, myself and I'd imagine quite a few others, thought this was Trendy's way of making AP more accessible to those of us who weren't able to grind a lot of it previously. It's not, it's just an extra reward for those who already were.

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@uzar quote:

From the blog notes and also mentioned on  the streams , End game.

The goal for this is to allow players who are pushing in end game Onslaught to increase the power of their favorite and/or most used shards. This is our first step towards adding more goals for end game players that have long lasting impact on their power.

Technically "end-game" would be anything past campaign, as that is where the story ends. This is end end end end end end game, and that was not communicated in any way at all. And end game players were not hurting for goals. You have a ever ending  hamster wheel. Non end-game players did not have that. Only a wall they hit and can no longer progress. Expeditions alone will not solve this issue, and TE would have been smart to focus on this part of their demographic more, so that new players had more reasons to stay until they got to be advanced players. MODs will certainly help with this, but decidedly gilding will not. Yes, advanced players need new stuff too - but it should be crystal clear when something is more designed for them. 

Clearly based on the reactions to the number that was put out shows that their communication on this was not where it should have been. The number should have been thrown out there earlier for discussion, or it was not presented in a way so that we understood what they were trying to accomplish with it. Instead the number was kept from us until right before the update went live (even though was asked for it MANY times), and then it was a huge number that none of us expected at that level. There were multiple threads out before that update went live, and the group consensus was closer to 3-5 shards. Knowing and seeing those threads out there, TE should have been smart and did some damage control when giving that info out, Instead they just threw it out there, so shocker that it did not go over well. At a minimum this part of the update was a fail in marketing and communication. 

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