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123theman123

Gild shards require 10 shards, thoughts

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Yep exactly! With current system now, I really hope the power resulted in this is worth it.

I hear you on that. I am concerned though. We know it will be less than the Hyper Shards (which is a good thing - for hyper shards at least). However, in the time it would take me to gild even one DS shard - i could get the VS shard in Mastery faster (way way way faster). I think that is a sad statement. I don't have room for all of these extra shards to hold onto for that final 10th one. I think i am likely to focus on just a few key ones, and kind of give up on the rest. Don't have room or time. 

I am really putting all of my hopes in MODs. I really want to love this update. Up until today i was foaming at the mouth for it. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

I really wouldn't mind 10, if we could just craft them. Like Plasma, I don't really mind the number if the RNG factor is lessened. At least some power is in our hands.

Agreed. Dust for a shard pack instead of a specific shard is like a kick in the face given these crazy high gild amounts. If we had a way to ensure we could get the shard we wanted, that would very much lessen the impact of this number. 

Agreed. I also think dust should be backwards compatible and cost scaling. If a C1 Shard costs 10 C1 dust, it should also be available for say 9 C2 dust, 8 C3, 7 C4, 6 C5, 5 C6, or 4 C7 dust. Reward people for higher content, don't make them go back and AFK farm Chaos 1 for hours on end, playing other games and just tab-ing in to hit G every couple minutes.

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@Tolkmit quote:

Agreed. I also think dust should be backwards compatible and cost scaling. If a C1 Shard costs 10 C1 dust, it should also be available for say 9 C2 dust, 8 C3, 7 C4, 6 C5, 5 C6, or 4 C7 dust. Reward people for higher content, don't make them go back and AFK farm Chaos 3 for hours on end, playing other games and just tab-ing in to hit G every couple minutes.

THIS. If I could hit like more than once, I would.

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@Tolkmit quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

I really wouldn't mind 10, if we could just craft them. Like Plasma, I don't really mind the number if the RNG factor is lessened. At least some power is in our hands.

Agreed. Dust for a shard pack instead of a specific shard is like a kick in the face given these crazy high gild amounts. If we had a way to ensure we could get the shard we wanted, that would very much lessen the impact of this number. 

Agreed. I also think dust should be backwards compatible and cost scaling. If a C1 Shard costs 10 C1 dust, it should also be available for say 9 C2 dust, 8 C3, 7 C4, 6 C5, 5 C6, or 4 C7 dust. Reward people for higher content, don't make them go back and AFK farm Chaos 1 for hours on end, playing other games and just tab-ing in to hit G every couple minutes.

Oh yeah! That would be much better for the current system! Though shard crafting would be superior I think.

One shard equals how much dust though?

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@Jaws_420 quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Yep exactly! With current system now, I really hope the power resulted in this is worth it.

I hear you on that. I am concerned though. We know it will be less than the Hyper Shards (which is a good thing - for hyper shards at least). However, in the time it would take me to gild even one DS shard - i could get the VS shard in Mastery faster (way way way faster). I think that is a sad statement. I don't have room for all of these extra shards to hold onto for that final 10th one. I think i am likely to focus on just a few key ones, and kind of give up on the rest. Don't have room or time. 

I am really putting all of my hopes in MODs. I really want to love this update. Up until today i was foaming at the mouth for it. 

I guess it's me too on that, I don't have the room nor the gold either. I'll just guild whatever that's needed for a build that'll help me speed-run AP. The rest I'll just gild when I can, but I'm not gonna sweat it that much.

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onslaught floors 80 and higher have a chance to drop a [[155864,users]] shard ( SimonB being a former colleague of professor Proteus ) which is capable of gilding a shard of your choice .  


i see myself gilding some useful commonly dropped shards , not deadly strikes, destruction, vampiric empowerment , defense rate or power transfer whatever that shard is going to turn into. 

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@Tarius quote:


@Tolkmit quote:

Agreed. I also think dust should be backwards compatible and cost scaling. If a C1 Shard costs 10 C1 dust, it should also be available for say 9 C2 dust, 8 C3, 7 C4, 6 C5, 5 C6, or 4 C7 dust. Reward people for higher content, don't make them go back and AFK farm Chaos 3 for hours on end, playing other games and just tab-ing in to hit G every couple minutes.

THIS. If I could hit like more than once, I would.

Why not rather have a set shard dust currency that stacks to high amounts or is maintained like gold/gems and higher tier shards just give more, while higher chaos shard packs cost more.  That would simplify the system by far and allow for more utility than the current system.

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10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

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@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

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Let's not forget, there's money for Trendy to make in this: you can buy shards after all (also with medals). And will probably see many of us doing so (cue p2w cries).

I think depending on how much you play and where you are in the game this appears to be a mountain or an opportunity. E.g. I am only at level 86 on Onslaught with only a single reset and characters, bags, and vault full with shards I don't care for / spares because I like to play fewer characters intensely and have been stock piling since the announcement of these features. For me, everything about this update makes sense and benefits me because of my current game position.

I think the cost:reward of dusting is skewed far too much towards cost and could be better for helping people get the shards they want. At one point in the dev stream it seamed as though Jose was inferring that you can get the shard you want from dusting, but I doubt that is reality.

I'm sure it's the case that Trendy will monitor gilding data after release to see how many of us actually engage in it and will refine the costs / rewards from there.

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@123theman123 quote:


@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

Sing that gospel brother. U dont NEED AP, hyper shards, gild shards, or even maxed c7 gear to play this game. I can beat any chaos tier with a good hero build and c5 gear. All that stuff is mainly there for peps who wanna push high floors. The new/casual player wont b reseting often if ever. What do they need urresetable shard for? You dont NEED this stuff you WANT this stuff, theres a difference. Thats whats wrong with society today. Everyone feels entitled and dont wanna work for anything anymore.Having something to work towards keeps the game from getting stale and achievements r more meaningful when u actually put some work into it.

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@024noi quote:


@123theman123 quote:


@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

Sing that gospel brother. U dont NEED AP, hyper shards, gild shards, or even maxed c7 gear to play this game. I can beat any chaos tier with a good hero build and c5 gear. All that stuff is mainly there for peps who wanna push high floors. The new/casual player wont b reseting often if ever. What do they need urresetable shard for? You dont NEED this stuff you WANT this stuff, theres a difference. Thats whats wrong with society today. Everyone feels entitled and dont wanna work for anything anymore.Having something to work towards keeps the game from getting stale and achievements r more meaningful when u actually put some work into it.

You basically just argued that most of these gameplay mechanics are pointless.


I do not think gilded shards are meant for new/casual players. I do not think they should be instantly achieved. I do think the drop rate of the desired defense shards are so low that it would take either extreme luck or far too much time to acquire the necessary shards in order to gild.


I particularly hate how hero shards drop more frequently than defense shards. 

13 heroes with 5-6 slots each (67), x3 shards is 201 total shard slots.

54 defenses with 1 slot each, x3 shards is 162 total shard slots.

During play, you use multiple defenses at a time, but only one hero. The system is skewed towards heroes when defenses do the heavy lifting.


Designing a game mechanic around such drastically inconsistent variables is a poor design choice. 

+ 10 shards

+ 2 million gold

+ 2 upgrade increases

+ extremely low drop rate for the shards that matter

= practically useless game mechanic


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10 is perfect. You get a lot of shards while APing (currently around 1500 shards im hoarding) and this allows you to squeeze a little more power out of your shards while cutting down on inventory space in the long run. 

I will run out of gold before I run out of shards to gild on tuesday.

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Ten shards is good - gilding shouldn't be easy. It must be a reward for long and hard play. Like crowns for 735 mastery stars or aura on 114 floor.  

The problem is only in the bag capacity - mine are maxed out and they are full already. 

Maybe DEVs  can make shards Stack? That would solve the problem. 

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Same as the onslaught fiasco, you have people with time to burn who say it’s ok and those who will have this feature completely gated from them.

Hopefully MODs and Expeditions will be fun as this game really needs some to offset the drudgery 

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@Tarius quote:

I particularly hate how hero shards drop more frequently than defense shards. 

13 heroes with 5-6 slots each (67), x3 shards is 201 total shard slots.

54 defenses with 1 slot each, x3 shards is 162 total shard slots.

During play, you use multiple defenses at a time, but only one hero. The system is skewed towards heroes when defenses do the heavy lifting.


My math was wrong.  There are only 38 defenses in the game (didnt subtract gunwitch and barb) totaling with 114 shard slots


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

10 is perfect. You get a lot of shards while APing (currently around 1500 shards im hoarding) and this allows you to squeeze a little more power out of your shards while cutting down on inventory space in the long run. 

I will run out of gold before I run out of shards to gild on tuesday.

1500 shards?

8 inventory bags, 64 slots = 512
lets say you have 8 vaults, 64 slots = 512

that would be 1024 slots dedicated to shards.  


Dryad has 25 defense slots and 30 hero slots, totaling 55 slots total.  To make up the difference you would need 9 dryad-like heroes to use as Shard Mules at best. (9 x 55 = 495)


In gaming terms that would make you a Whale.  Because if you didnt have 8 vault slots (real $ required), that would be another 10+ heroes acting as pure shard mules.  


Possible? yeah.  Reasonable? NO.
This is an extreme.  


The 1% of players that have nothing better to do than AP Reset for the 20th time.  That is an indication that additional content is required for those players.  It is not an indication that a new mechanic, announced to the entire player population, should only be reasonably achieved by the 1% of the playerbase willing to do the unreasonable.


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Um u don't have to farm all shards at the same time for gilding. Just the ones u use most.  Also i didnt say those game mechanics were pointless, just not needed to play the game. When your committed to climbing high floors and need the extra power or repeatedly reseting and wanna save gold and time (always sucks to have to go through all your heroes and upgrade everything everytime after spending forever farming gold before u do everytime). This system is a god send. I only use 4 heroes through trails and start with nothing but a piar of boots for speed shard for dps as i sell everything before i reset while its still worth something.(another prosess). My min ascension carries me till i find gear. To have just those 4 heroes gilded ... Anything to speed up that whole prosess. Being able to also take that same weapon all the way through just mod it and up it ... Awsome. Means stable hero builds means no shard shuffle, means less shards needed.  This game is all about the grind and time investment, about resource and space management, prioritizing needs and knowing what they. If thats not your thing and just wanna play casually thats cool 2. Its a fun game 2 play. But its not just a quick to unlock everything play it while its hot then move on to the next 1 cough ... COD .. Cough hmm sry. Its a game made for the long haul. Played often, some times 2 much, for years and years. Plan accordingly.

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@Tarius quote:


@Tarius quote:

I particularly hate how hero shards drop more frequently than defense shards. 

13 heroes with 5-6 slots each (67), x3 shards is 201 total shard slots.

54 defenses with 1 slot each, x3 shards is 162 total shard slots.

During play, you use multiple defenses at a time, but only one hero. The system is skewed towards heroes when defenses do the heavy lifting.


My math was wrong.  There are only 38 defenses in the game (didnt subtract gunwitch and barb) totaling with 114 shard slots


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

10 is perfect. You get a lot of shards while APing (currently around 1500 shards im hoarding) and this allows you to squeeze a little more power out of your shards while cutting down on inventory space in the long run. 

I will run out of gold before I run out of shards to gild on tuesday.

1500 shards?

8 inventory bags, 64 slots = 512
lets say you have 8 vaults, 64 slots = 512

that would be 1024 slots dedicated to shards.  


Dryad has 25 defense slots and 30 hero slots, totaling 55 slots total.  To make up the difference you would need 9 dryad-like heroes to use as Shard Mules at best. (9 x 55 = 495)


In gaming terms that would make you a Whale.  Because if you didnt have 8 vault slots (real $ required), that would be another 10+ heroes acting as pure shard mules.  


Possible? yeah.  Reasonable? NO.
This is an extreme.  


The 1% of players that have nothing better to do than AP Reset for the 20th time.  That is an indication that additional content is required for those players.  It is not an indication that a new mechanic, announced to the entire player population, should only be reasonably achieved by the 1% of the playerbase willing to do the unreasonable.


Math is way off. all 12 vault bags, half my inventory 4 of 8 bags (other half is sell bags) and currently 56 characters holding anywhere between a few and 27 shards

so 768 vault spots, 513 from inventory, and i currently can hold on avg 27 shards on 56 characters so 1512 there. (and u can have up to 64 characters). So i have a potential 2793 shard holding capacity atm. 


Besides any of that of course they are going to keep making content, onslaught patch was over 6 months ago.

This patch just made APing a lot faster (trading...)

This is a grinding rng loot game at its core. This just added a lot of stuff to do at end game for min maxing and floor pushing.

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@024noi quote:


@123theman123 quote:


@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

Sing that gospel brother. U dont NEED AP, hyper shards, gild shards, or even maxed c7 gear to play this game. I can beat any chaos tier with a good hero build and c5 gear. All that stuff is mainly there for peps who wanna push high floors. The new/casual player wont b reseting often if ever. What do they need urresetable shard for? You dont NEED this stuff you WANT this stuff, theres a difference. Thats whats wrong with society today. Everyone feels entitled and dont wanna work for anything anymore.Having something to work towards keeps the game from getting stale and achievements r more meaningful when u actually put some work into it.

Seriously? Then what the heck do I play the game for? Finishing C7 is now quite fast so what do I do next?

Yeah, sure, I don't "need" to AP, Hyper Shards or even Gilding, so I should just stop at C7 and just mindlessly play it? Obviously not! You go forward with the next content!

So yeah, like Exglint said, the Hardcore destroys content. I and I think I can speak for some too, just want to play the content and enjoy the game at an AVERAGE PACE. Sure, I definitely wouldn't mind some sprinkle of Hardcore, but I don't really know about this....

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@Kanguroo quote:

Ten shards is good - gilding shouldn't be easy. It must be a reward for long and hard play. Like crowns for 735 mastery stars or aura on 114 floor.  

The problem is only in the bag capacity - mine are maxed out and they are full already. 

Maybe DEVs  can make shards Stack? That would solve the problem. 

Brilliant 


@Nigiri_Toro quote:

10 is perfect. You get a lot of shards while APing (currently around 1500 shards im hoarding) and this allows you to squeeze a little more power out of your shards while cutting down on inventory space in the long run. 

I will run out of gold before I run out of shards to gild on tuesday.

Right me 2 lol have a dozen or so ready to roll ... Whats that 24 mill? Half way there already. Giggity

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My abilty gunwitch is nearly set I'm only missing two shards for crit chance. And as it's sounding crit may not be wat I want on those gloves so there's really no rush just yet

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@024noi quote:


@123theman123 quote:


@Vindicit quote:

10 is to high. We dont get the shards we need even without attempting to gild any of them. How do we get the shards we want with enough of them to just have 10 of them lying around? It wont work well... it wont work well when you introduce more heroes because the shard pool just gets bigger and bigger.  This game is not enjoyable enough to mindlessly grind low chaos games just to get the shards we want.

who says you HAVE to mindless grind low C modes? you choose to do this. Gild shards are not require to beat anything. Gild shard system is for those players with tons of hours input into the game/ players who been here for a  long while. Many of those players have 5-20 copies of a single shard in their bank/bags/on heros.  the system was created for them and future long term players. 

Sing that gospel brother. U dont NEED AP, hyper shards, gild shards, or even maxed c7 gear to play this game. I can beat any chaos tier with a good hero build and c5 gear. All that stuff is mainly there for peps who wanna push high floors. The new/casual player wont b reseting often if ever. What do they need urresetable shard for? You dont NEED this stuff you WANT this stuff, theres a difference. Thats whats wrong with society today. Everyone feels entitled and dont wanna work for anything anymore.Having something to work towards keeps the game from getting stale and achievements r more meaningful when u actually put some work into it.

Seriously? Then what the heck do I play the game for? Finishing C7 is now quite fast so what do I do next?

Yeah, sure, I don't "need" to AP, Hyper Shards or even Gilding, so I should just stop at C7 and just mindlessly play it? Obviously not! You go forward with the next content!

So yeah, like Exglint said, the Hardcore destroys content. I and I think I can speak for some too, just want to play the content and enjoy the game at an AVERAGE PACE. Sure, I definitely wouldn't mind some sprinkle of Hardcore, but I don't really know about this....


that a great question to ask yourself, many ask it. HELL i even ask myself it. this game always been a RNG loot base game. i agree they need to add some mid game stuff/ fun mode to  get away from the grind. if you want to enjoy the game at a average pace, GO AHEAD, that your choice and many others. there are always hardcore players in any game that makes your efforts look like crap or highly skill players that easily out pace you with the same time spent.  

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@024noi quote:


@123theman123 

Seriously? Then what the heck do I play the game for? Finishing C7 is now quite fast so what do I do next?

Yeah, sure, I don't "need" to AP, Hyper Shards or even Gilding, so I should just stop at C7 and just mindlessly play it? Obviously not! You go forward with the next content!

So yeah, like Exglint said, the Hardcore destroys content. I and I think I can speak for some too, just want to play the content and enjoy the game at an AVERAGE PACE. Sure, I definitely wouldn't mind some sprinkle of Hardcore, but I don't really know about this....

whats an average pace? hour a day? Onslaughts been out for 6 months, takes about 12 hours for a ap reset. So at a hour a day thats 1 reset every two weeks. At that rate the average players should be at least ap 12.

that would also be 27 onslaught maps x 12 ap x 3 shards per map 

and

7 chaos, 3 map per tier x 12 ap x 2 shards per map.

the average player would then have 1476 shards from playing a hour a day for 6 months and have 12 ap

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Hi all ... i see some Heat in this debate .... i'm also running out of gold and Deff Medals BEFORE i run out of shards to Gild ... and true ... i don't have 40 Destruction so i won't have one Gilded in every tower, but i have a reasonable number of other shards too :)

One very good point is that if we farm AP ... we get many shards in between for going from C1 to Floor 65... as Nigiri_Toro explained with accuracy.

But besides these 2 arguments, i have another about economy but it's a bit of math so i'll make an post with explanation tomorrow ... have a nice evening all Emoji_Apprentice.png

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It's gonna be low compared to others i know, but i have over 800 hours in this game and ive found 4 deadly strikes shards, so yet again this is gonna be a feature not aimed at me, and infuriatingly enough this patch is not bringing the bad luck protection i had hoped, trendy is clearly saying "is rng not on your side? then here's some more rng!"

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