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Superb_Dog

Excitement for the big update?

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Ok, so on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being soooo very not excited and 10 being uber hyper excited, how excited are you for this incoming update?

Warning: Anyone who goes above 10 will be in big trouble demon.png

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Between 9 and 10 ... especialy because of GILDED shards ... 10 is a good number not low to prevent ALL newbs Gildgind any shard ... but not too high to make it tedious for older players ... 

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@emilian quote:

Between 9 and 10 ... especialy because of GILDED shards ... 10 is a good number not low to prevent ALL newbs Gildgind any shard ... but not too high to make it tedious for older players ... 

10 Deadly strike shards to upgrade just one shard is a good number???? I highly contest that logic. I think that number is INSANELY too high. 


I was at a 9 (excitement level) before today's dev log. Now i am more of a 5...

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@Jaws_420 quote:

10 Deadly strike shards to upgrade just one shard is a good number???? I highly contest that logic. I think that number is INSANELY too high. 

I don't know why most players want to Gild 99999 Ghards right away after Update ??? it is meant to be achived in time ... and btw ... you only need arround 5 to 7 Towers to do a complete Ancient Power Reset ... so why upgrade shards that you won't use anyway ???

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@emilian quote:

I don't know why most players want to Gild 99999 Ghards right away after Update ??? it is meant to be achived in time ... and btw ... you onlt need arround 5 to 7 Towers to do a complete Ancient Power Reset ... so why upgrade shards that you won't use anyway ???

What are you even talking about with 99999 shards??? Even 10 DS shards will take FOREVER to grind for. That already will take way more time than most gamers will be willing to give DD2. 

And to your other argument - why even have the towers or heroes at all then? Might as well just delete all of them. I don't want to be confined to only 6 defenses. Why have options you do not use? Makes no sense. The illusion of choice? 

This is the exact reason why i never used AP, and i was seriously hoping that this update would make AP better, but this gild thing just went in the completely other direction. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:
@emilian quote:

I don't know why most players want to Gild 99999 Ghards right away after Update ??? it is meant to be achived in time ... and btw ... you onlt need arround 5 to 7 Towers to do a complete Ancient Power Reset ... so why upgrade shards that you won't use anyway ???

What are you even talking about with 99999 shards??? Even 10 DS shards will take FOREVER to grind for. That already will take way more time than most gamers will be willing to give DD2. 

And to your other argument - why even have the towers or heroes at all then? Might as well just delete all of them. I don't want to be confined to only 6 defenses. Why have options you do not use? Makes no sense. The illusion of choice? 

This is the exact reason why i never used AP, and i was seriously hoping that this update would make AP better, but this gild thing just went in the completely other direction. 

What if Mods made it so that Deadly Strikes wasn't absolutely necessary and you had options to use different shard combinations? Some Mods and Shards share similar features, allowing more unique builds to come through both on Mod selection and Shard selection.

I only mention that one, as you've mentioned Deadly Strikes a few times. We're comfortable with the number as others have said, it's meant to be an achievement/goal, and not something that is spammed within an hour or two of playing. If it doesn't go as our data suggests, we can look at changing it, or implementing something that helps bring balance to it. For now though, the data points to 10.

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@LAWLTA quote:

What if Mods made it so that Deadly Strikes wasn't absolutely necessary and you had options to use different shard combinations? Some Mods and Shards share similar features, allowing more unique builds to come through both on Mod selection and Shard selection.

I only mention that one, as you've mentioned Deadly Strikes a few times. We're comfortable with the number as others have said, it's meant to be an achievement/goal, and not something that is spammed within an hour or two of playing. If it doesn't go as our data suggests, we can look at changing it, or implementing something that helps bring balance to it. For now though, the data points to 10.

I feel like you are doing the opposite of allowing unique builds. Resources are going to put a huge limit on what gear you can afford to level with you, so people will just need to pick one or two defenses, add the mods & shards that make them work against as much as possible, and only use those to grind Ancient Power. Mods, gear, and shards are all going to be a massive resource sink, so while you are increases the options for people at Chaos 1 after reset, you are locking them into using whatever couple pieces of gear they choose to progress with.


Edit: I also want to point out on your timing. There are currently 13 heroes. That's 67 armor/weapon slots. Plus 38 unique defense slots. That's 105 slots. 315 Shards. Even if gilding only took an hour or two, you are still talking about 500+ hours of gameplay, and that's not considering there being more than 3 shard options for each slot.

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@LAWLTA quote:

What if Mods made it so that Deadly Strikes wasn't absolutely necessary and you had options to use different shard combinations? Some Mods and Shards share similar features, allowing more unique builds to come through both on Mod selection and Shard selection.

That is a fair enough statement - to a degree. Since we have no list of what MODs there are, how can any of us possibly know what kind of balance or imbalance MODs would create in relation to shards? 

Still - balance or not, there are handful of highly sought after shards that drop like diamonds in the game: Deadly Strikes, Power Transfer, Defense Rate, etc... You know, all of the key ones that actually make you a lot stronger. Hardly ever see any of those and i fully call BS on the whole "equal drop rates" thing. I like to help new players, so i often given them instructions on what shards to go for. I have watched so many spend hour after hour grinding C3/C4 for these keys shards only to get 1 after almost a week of effort. Even if there are  great MODs out there, why build a gild system that is based on such crazy huge numbers??? If the MODs can make those shards less desirable (in some manner) - then you basically just gave me even less reasons to want to grind for these things. 

This really just tells me that gilding is built for your top leaderboard players then. If someone at my level of progress thinks that this number is way out there, i cannot even dream to think what players still not even to C7 will think. I was hoping the goal of this update was to add options, and i think MODs will successfully do that on their part - but as to shards, i think TE went in the opposite direction and catered it to the top 1% only. 

Don't get me wrong on the update overall. Apart from shards - i am excited. MODs look awesome. But this gilding thing seems like a big misstep. 

We're comfortable with the number as others have said, it's meant to be an achievement/goal, and not something that is spammed within an hour or two of playing. If it doesn't go as our data suggests, we can look at changing it, or implementing something that helps bring balance to it. For now though, the data points to 10.

an hour or two? Statements like that make me feel you are not taking this seriously at all. 7 months to get less than 15 DS shards is the rate i have seen these at. To be clear - that is 1 shard every 2 or so weeks (not hours). Now i need like 60 more to hit this "goal". A goal that will take about 28+ months to reach at that pace. I am certainly not going to grind only Chaos 3 for weeks and months on end either. Do you have any idea how boring that is? 

Now - if each extra shard i got could be put into my current gild one, and that raised the stats a little (like MODs do), then i would be slightly less upset about the crazy high number. But having to carry around 9 extras for months and months for an all or nothing upgrade....that really sucks. 

You have also created an unneeded inventory space issue to boot. Maybe that was why you made the vaults. But now it just feels like a cheap attempt at more $$$ from us. Why can't shards stack? I don't want pages and pages of shards everywhere being held for all of these 10 limits. My inventory is already crazy overflowing - with vaults included. 

I think there is a real big miss here. It's one thing to collect 10 shards of a shard that is specific to one hero, and only one tower. You only ever need 10 total then, well 11... But a shard, with a low drop rate, that every defense currently uses, so we need to gild more like 5-6 of them - is a much bigger deal. Those are not equal things. 60 DS shards is a number that basically makes me laugh. Like it's not even real; it is now a cartoon with an ACME mallet chasing the roadrunner named Gild. 



I think a much better idea would have been to have Gild levels. Each level only requires 1 shard. Then the shard can have up to 10 gild levels (still too high though, but i am trying to find some middle ground here). Same number of shards needed, but no inventory murder, and an instant boost in stats giving you the feeling that you at least got something for your effort. 

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@LAWLTA quote:
@Jaws_420 quote:
@emilian quote:

-snip-

-snip-

What if Mods made it so that Deadly Strikes wasn't absolutely necessary and you had options to use different shard combinations? Some Mods and Shards share similar features, allowing more unique builds to come through both on Mod selection and Shard selection.

I only mention that one, as you've mentioned Deadly Strikes a few times. We're comfortable with the number as others have said, it's meant to be an achievement/goal, and not something that is spammed within an hour or two of playing. If it doesn't go as our data suggests, we can look at changing it, or implementing something that helps bring balance to it. For now though, the data points to 10.

Hard stop here.


I thought the point of gilded shards is to offset some of the downside to resetting Ancient Power (prestiging). Yes/No?  Yes the scope is for "end-game" players -and- players seeking to increase the effectiveness of their shards.

Then wouldnt players begin focusing on this game mechanic when they start to focus on Ancient Power?


I dont think anyone was expecting to knocking out a gilded shard in an hour... the concern that [[18530,users]] and I are making is that it will potentially take months of dedicated play time to even achieve 1 gilded shard that we actually care about.  


Looking at the details released for the update... there are now MANY ways to increase the power or effectiveness of Towers and Heroes (Tinker, Upgrade, Evolve).  So far there is only ONE mechanic announced to reduce the crushing impact of prestiging ... Gilded Shards.

What does it matter if MODS provide a similar bonus as a Shard?  Prestiging is still going to negate all of that.  What is more effective?  Re-upgrading / evolving all of your gear all over again back to C7 levels?  Or equipping the next item that drops which is superior to what you have equipped?  Equipping the next-best-thing is certainly cheaper.  


As a design choice, when should players begin to concern themselves with gilding?  

How much time has Trendy calculated a player would need to dedicate to achieve a gilded shard?

In essence, what Data?



As I see it now... the likelihood of gilding a shard I care about is SO LOW... that gilded shards mean nothing.  The one feature I was most looking forward to in this update is now meaningless. 




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I'm fairly neutral on the gilding.   A gilded shard saves some gold on a reset and a modest increase in stats.  If you aren't in a hurry to reset then it's not hard to stockpile enough gold to upgrade enough shards to easily stomp back to C7. 

I think it's just like ascension.  Takes a lot of hours to get to 4 digit ascension, gives you maximum bonus, great bragging rights but completely unnecessary and most people won't even set it as a goal.  Same with gilding I reckon.  I'll probably keep a small list of shards I hope to gild that I'll collect and dust the rest.

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11

wot u gon do bout it?

I seem to be in the minority that likes the fact that gilded shards are going to be the rare reward I can achieve from grinding or from spending $$ when I am feeling a little more free and frisky with my money.

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Well we’ll feel the pain when all our gear is reset with RBG turning our good gear to mediocrity.

All the slots I have with relics and C7 legendaries will be freed up after regearing all my heroes with the new rerolled best gear and tinkered the useful mods from the rest.

I guess I’ll be broke after that so will grind for the new materials and look at how Expeditions feels.

Shame we didn’t get Betsy and Harbinger back with the associated extra special drops.

Barb vs Harb would have been fun

3 shard packs per map in Expeditions may offset the annoyance of the gilding price.

Biggest outstanding issue is the 3 map floors with no save that’s killing DD2 for many.


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Actually I'm going to bring it back down to a 10 because defense speed MODs and Shards will be the new necessity. Though I suppose 1/6 boosts being necessary isn't so bad (here's hoping Defense Rate / MODs provide the other 40% needed to max out defense speed on towers)!

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Good because I was going to send the Harbinger to your house, to have some words with you...

I understand the concerns from both sides of the table. Lets see when the update is here, to be sure. Besides I think even after the update is here, there will be little updates to tweak or fix things. As long as we give feedback, i'm sure things will move in a postive direction :)

@Little Magic Hat quote:

Actually I'm going to bring it back down to a 10 because defense speed MODs and Shards will be the new necessity. Though I suppose 1/6 boosts being necessary isn't so bad (here's hoping Defense Rate / MODs provide the other 40% needed to max out defense speed on towers)!


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i'll say a solid 8. I have some concerns with gilded shards and whether or not trading will impact future design decisions in a negative way, but am overall very excited for this patch. It will take some getting used to that we won't be as oppressed by hard-counter mobs and certain mutators anymore. That and all these juicy mods. This is certainly going to outweigh any and all criticisms I have with the patch.

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@Superb_Dog quote:

Ok, so on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being soooo very not excited and 10 being uber hyper excited, how excited are you for this incoming update?

Warning: Anyone who goes above 10 will be in big trouble demon.png

After seeing how the changes are going to be implemented, my excitement went from nearly a 9 to barely a 2.


I would be more excited for the update, but when considering how the new features are implemented, it becomes clear that they are either so late game that I wont be able to use them or that they add more time to grinding.   Ill explain by describing how the new features will likely affect my game-play.

Shard Gilding

           Collecting the number of  shards required to gild all of the shards that I just use for towers will likely take longer finish then ti will take me to ap reset 50 times (even if i had not already reset a number of times).   As a result, im going to be completely ignoring the gilding feature and only gild shards if i happen to collect enough.   In other words, relative to how I play (and will continue to play) gilding might as well not exist.


-This feature lowers my excitement significantly

Tower Mechanic Changes

            Its hard to way what result will occur from only having two stats on equipment will have.   At minimum, In can say that it completely eliminates my ability to use a crit build on auras (since auras are too annoying to deal with if you don't have tower hp on your gear).  

             With regard to the changes in how crit and attack speed work, I find it almost impossible to determine how it might affect builds without knowing what M.O.D.S exist and how the various shards are being altered.


             At minimum, I know that my current shard builds are going to have to change significantly but how much they will change inst a judgement that I can make at the moment.


-This feature slightly raises my excitement, but could lower it if I don't find the changes t towers to positive

Upgrading, Advancing, Evolving

             I am split on how to react to this particular feature.   On one hand, its nice to have some gear permanence through AP resets.   On the other hand, the way that it is implemented could add a significant amount of grinding to AP resets if I take advantage of it.   Ill explain.

             My main concern is that being required to accumulate lots of upgrade items is going to result is lots of extra time in [repeated] grinding every time I AP reset.   It changes the reset from merely replacing gear as I re-progress through chaos Tiers into either lots of extra farming in order to upgrade my items or extra time put into farming extra items before I hit the reset button.   In either case, progressing though AP is significantly slowed down.   [I should be clear that I am not against collecting items for the item upgrades, im only pointing out that the way that it is implemented means slower resets IF i use the feature]

           Depending how how necessary M.O.D.S are to the new balance of the game [when doing an AP reset] there are two possible ways that I can react to it.   The first is that I completely ignore it, the same way that i am going to ignore gilding (aka, ill do it if it ever becomes convenient but it will otherwise be ignored until i AP reset 50 times) OR its going to me required to AP reset (if wave difficulty requires specific M.O.D.S. to progress) in which case it makes my re-gearing take significantly longer and therefore more boring.


-This feature does little to change my excitement level and might result in lowering it significantly

M.O.D.S and Tinkering

         For me, this feature probably adds the most excitement for the new update.   The potential to have a unique set of towers has lots of potential to allow for unique builds.   But, I am not overly excited because we have no idea what the mods are and whether they are going to turn out like shards did and just be a "pick the best-in-slot" type of feature.   If the feature falls on the side of adding diversity to tower setups then its going to be very exciting, but if it turns out that it falls on the other side then I will have no excitement for the feature.

        The tinkering aspect is also something that lends a lot of excitement to the update.   I believe that it is probably the best implemented feature in this update (based on what has been shown).   Since it provides a goal to work towards (collecting mods and creating equipment with the best possible stats for your builds), its usable whether your just starting the game or a long time player, and it provides a lot of replay value since it might be possible to have more than one good build for any given tower (unless turns into another best-in-slot problem).


-This feature is the one that I find to be most exciting, but also potentially the most disappointing (that is if it ends up working the way that shards do now)


Map Choice

         I had initially expected this to be the feature that I would like the most, but my excitement for it is balanced out by my dread that collecting upgrade/advancement items is going to slow down AP progression and result is a significant mount of material grinding.   Even with the ability to pick maps that I enjoy, if I'm forced to grind the same map just to pick up upgrade materials then its going to feel like Map choice even when it technically is.


-This feature lends some excitement, but only a little because of the potential drawbacks of how it is implemented


------

        I should add that I'm not trying to be negative or complain about anything.   I do hope that the new features that will be useful before AP 50 are implemented in a way that makes the game more fun, but my excitement is based on how they will affect my game-play and there is a lot of potential for them to have both positive and negative effect.   

        As a result, I can say that I am hopeful for positive changes but my excitement still falls at a 2.


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@Jaws_420 quote:
@emilian quote:

Between 9 and 10 ... especialy because of GILDED shards ... 10 is a good number not low to prevent ALL newbs Gildgind any shard ... but not too high to make it tedious for older players ... 

10 Deadly strike shards to upgrade just one shard is a good number???? I highly contest that logic. I think that number is INSANELY too high. 


I was at a 9 (excitement level) before today's dev log. Now i am more of a 5...

10 DS yup that would be an absolute killer 

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I'm feeling optimistic today, and That Techwitch is just irresistable awesomeness! I gonna raise it back to 8.

It's just the RNG aspect of the Gilding that I'm not happy with (still wish for a change that lessens the RNG though). I now think that it just warrants a minus 2. No more than that. That rest are pretty interesting to try out!

Cheers!

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@Laurella quote:

My internet is slow.. I hope its not a 50gb update :(

Base on the last expansion that came out at December 2017, I would guess it would be at 7.5 gb or 8 gb.

However this coming expansion comes out with a lot of changes, so...it could be more though.

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