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Fozzie

Two stats on gear, please explain

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Just saying it, so you cant have a HD\AP build anymore as you need to compromise as you'll need to use some gear to maintain health.

I see its just because you couldn't fit in the mods windows, ever thought of tabs?

"This expansion really provides the opportunity to build how you want to, and gear is a huge reason. We wanted gear to feel more unique, instead of just giving you every stat whenever you received a legendary tier of gear. Now your gear and choices can reflect the kind of Defender you want to be."

I want gear with HD, AP and HH on it. No point being a glass cannon. Unless you are going to change all abilities to scale of HD?


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Glad you brought it up. It felt off to me. HP is 100% necessary on your gear. Sure you can get away with missing maybe a piece but after assassin's come in you kinda want it on everything. Hybrid DPS is some of the most fun ways to build a dps and that is completely out the window with what we know atm. At least, its not recommended after C4 if you ever wanna be alive past 20s into your map when an assassin spawns. 


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

This still makes me wonder, how did we survive Trials during the times of Pre-Loot update......

Could someone enlighten me (again) as during those times I was still relying on carries on C3.

We did it with HP and only 1 stat. It was kinda boring dps-wise.


I'd personally like to see HP being inherent to gear, and then you need to make the decision to go either both HD and AP, or one damage stat and Armor to be tankier. Armor stat would be relevant, and without it you wouldnt be instantly 1 shot if you like using your primary attack and an ability.

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@SidewalkHero quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

This still makes me wonder, how did we survive Trials during the times of Pre-Loot update......

Could someone enlighten me (again) as during those times I was still relying on carries on C3.

We did it with HP and only 1 stat. It was kinda boring dps-wise.


I'd personally like to see HP being inherent to gear, and then you need to make the decision to go either both HD and AP, or one damage stat and Armor to be tankier. Armor stat would be relevant, and without it you wouldnt be instantly 1 shot if you like using your primary attack and an ability.

Hmm....HP being in gear instead of armor would be cool. The both choice you've mentioned do sound really good too.

Yeah sometimes hybrid does seem more fun that just ability power or Hero damage.

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uhmm am i missing something here you have 2 stats and 3 mods , 3 mods can be anything so you can add health etc or whatever and then you have 2 more slots?

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@uzar quote:

uhmm am i missing something here you have 2 stats and 3 mods , 3 mods can be anything so you can add health etc or whatever and then you have 2 more slots?

Maybe that would be a good way to do it and make it up. From what I saw though the Mods didn't seem like they were enough for a full stat, but if you mix your gear between all 3 and then pad it with mods maybe it'd be good.

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And why would you 'waste' a mod when gear used to have the stat in the first place. The point I'm making is that we had more stats when we went from passives to the new loot, and now we drop stats to go backwards to mods aka passives.

The logic is completely lost on me.

As SidewalkHero says you will have to heavily compromise to be tanky enough to survive assassins, masses of frosty zerkers etc.

Maybe using ascension will work as we won't need Hero and Defence Crit Damage anymore as a section the only function there is the Crit chances.

But it should be on gear.

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We were shown mods that have base stats yes, but is that actually a good thing? I would rather just have 2 secondary stats on my gear that allow me to customize it from there rather then having to spend mod slots on it. For some heros it might not be an issue finding a spot to slot in some hero health, others could have a VERY big issue getting those hp numbers without sacrificing some really cool mods (for example, most heros only have a few unique and useful chest shards where as the dryad has several leaving only 1 shard slot ‘open’). We can only guess how big of an issue it will be but i am very worried that we will have to make some very not-fun choices just to SURVIVE c5+, if you are going to have an enemy that REQUIRES health to soak damage then health should be an innate stat along side armor (although i honestly would rather just see armor rolled into health and make the Retribution shards work off health ./shrug). The ‘building how you want’ should come down to how we do our damage (that being raw, ability, crits, or some hybrid) not down to fine tuning heath pools while maximizing damage and avoiding being oneshot by an assassin.

I love Trendy and this game, but i have experienced the launches of 2 big updates now that have had catastrophically bad mechanics that caused me to quit the game. The first being Trials when all of the trials enemies stacked leaving you with one or 2 towers by c5 (post nimbus nerf, RIP AoE cloud boi) when we were told that Trials would let us play how we wanted (sound familiar?). The second being Onslaught where if you failed on map 3 you had to do them ALL again (there should not even be 3 maps per floor, it's just an annoyance. If you are hellbent on keeping 3 maps to a floor at the very least save our progress, life happens and bugs happen). I am very much hoping that i wont see a third but i can't help but feel that this update is going to increase the grind even more AND make it more annoying to make the fun builds you want to play, we will see come the 19th.

While i'm in rant mode, im very worried about the Market feature. Currently Gold Inflation doesn't matter as its only used on an individual side but i can't help but fear for the economy when you have players doing the exact same map (together even) but walking away with potentially vast differences in gold. I haven't done AP once (i despise onslaught’s 3 map ***) so i have no gold bonuses, but it dont take long at all for those resets to add up on gold income. 1 million gold to me is a LOT of money but for some people that's nothing. 5% per reset, 10 rests = 50% more gold, i earn ~60k a map  for ease of math but that guy with 10 resets earns ~90k a map. When gold was just for upgrades it wasn't a problem it was a nice reward for your time, but that kind of thing cannot be good for trade but unfortunately i don't really know how you would fix it without pissing people off ./shrug. Guess we'll just have to see how the market goes.

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I mean, the whole item system has been re-designed. I'm inclined to try it to see if it's balanced. You get to customize 6 mod/shard slots and also select the other two stats on the item. With that level of customization, how can you not be compensated or close to it?


I wonder if the meta will shift around...

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Don't forget that you will have MODs and Shards at the same time. You can use each MOD slot for stats if that is what you want, or for passives. With stats MODs, you can actually have 5 stats now, so we gained one. 

I think the whole point here though was the ability to customize.  Don't get me wrong, i agree with you. Any time a stat is removed, i get real nervous about what they are trying to do. Until i get to test drive the MODs out though, i will reserve judgement. 

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From what i could tell from the preview images, it looks like there's also going to be an increase in base stats on gear. The image of the medallion they posted in their thread had a gearscore of <400 with 2.3k DP. Currently, (from what i could tell by looking at the NPC shops online) most 2k DP medallions come in at a gear score nearing 500. The stat increase will surely be larger for higher end gear. If this is the case then i'm sure mix and matching gear pieces to have 1-2 with hero health while the other pieces have HD or AP will bring us around the same spot our characters are currently in. Maybe it'll be a nerf, maybe even a buff to our heroes. At the end of the day, those were not patch notes so we shouldn't bring out the pitchforks just yet. (This playershop thing has me uneasy though not gonna lie)

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Current gear has 4 stats of 5 (Armor, HD, HH, HCD, AP), and 3 shards. 7 values.

After the update, it will have 2 of 4 stats (Armor, HD, HH, AP), and 3 shards, and 3 MODS. 8 values.

We saw that Hero Health was one of the MODS available during the stream. We dont know if pure HD or AP are also MODS or not. 

We also do not know what other crazy MODS might be available in game. 


We technically have more customization, but also have more options for that limited customization. Maybe we still can augment our gear to reflect the original stats. Hard to tell if that is the best way forward though. I think a lot of our viable builds will be retired for newer ones that fully leverage the new systems. 


[[52650,users]] what class do you play that needs both Hero Damage and Ability Power equally?

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We have the info that there will be Hero damage plus one other stat, which is a backward step. I don't want to use a MOD slot just to have something the gear should have had in the first place. Just to get the info on one card, perhaps as consoles are far less capable of paging, seems a little weak a reason to reduce the number of base stats on gear. If Tarius is right, and I've no reason to say they aren't, then there may be more ways to configure come the roll out, but the stark fact is they have taken a backwards step in stats where they could have kept it as it was and added the MODs.

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I'm actually thinking that this is a good thing. If we retained the exact same stats we had before on top of having 3 mod slots to play around with, that is a ton of extra power. It would be way too much in my opinion. Even if we have to devote 2 mod slots to get the exact same thing as what we used to have, we still net 1 mod slot to do whatever with.

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Well, at least as a minimum, gear that used to not use one of the stats (i.e. Dryad Tree) can now repurpose those unused slots for entirely other things. This will at least eliminate some waste. 

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IMO I think the new MOD system is going to work quite well and don't feel this is a step backward

the biggest difference is currently you can't sacrifice/remove a Secondary Stat to boost a desired Stat

--so just focusing on Armor Slots and Legendary Items

NOTE: 1 Assumption MODs can boost a Stat to Secondary Stat Levels

so if look at an Ability Power Build 

currently

  • need to find 4 items with Ability Power and probably Health (not that hard to do)
  • and would also get so Hero Damage and Hero Crit Damage as side effect 
with MODs
  • should be able to get 4 items with Ability Power as its Secondary
  • use 4 MODs to boost Hero Health  (or less if don't think need the resulting HP levels)
  • at this point as an Ability Power build it should be comparable to current build but with 8 MOD slots open
  • if  want can completely Sacrifice Hero Damage (Hero Crit Damage as Secondary removed)
  • and boost Ability Power even higher x4
  • then can still apply Special MODs making your build even stronger

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Assumptions are being made that

1) Stats are staying as they were and we'll simply have less of everything

2) There isn't a health mod that rebalances the missing health and doesn't rely on every piece having it

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Well gobu thinks only time will tell us. No way to tell if that is a step back or forward cause we have way to many uncertainty. You can practical go over the value you had before, or you could not. We simple don't know until the patch hits.

But for gobu this one is probably a good change. I like to build maximised in one direction often. I did that way back then too for dps with my 2k hp heroes (before assassin times). Currently for me the HD or AP part is a waste of stats because i mostly go for just HD or AP and crit. With crit changing it probably will be back in one or another form from mods too. So for me its simple, HD/ HP with rest mods i need or AP/HP with rest mods i need. Easy step forward for whatever will come.

Obviously each change can't fit all players, but i don't see this one as a massive backwards step for sure.

Gobu.

For the gobu legion!!!! 

wasntme.gif

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@Fozzie quote:

We have the info that there will be Hero damage plus one other stat, which is a backward step. I don't want to use a MOD slot just to have something the gear should have had in the first place. Just to get the info on one card, perhaps as consoles are far less capable of paging, seems a little weak a reason to reduce the number of base stats on gear. If Tarius is right, and I've no reason to say they aren't, then there may be more ways to configure come the roll out, but the stark fact is they have taken a backwards step in stats where they could have kept it as it was and added the MODs.

Am I missing something?

Why are we talking about UI?


It is clearly a balance design choice..

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

Assumptions are being made that

1) Stats are staying as they were and we'll simply have less of everything

Yea that's what i was trying to get at, from what i saw from the images trendy posted of the new gear, stats will be higher, if it's high enough then it might be fully viable to run like 3 pieces with your main damages stat (HD or AP) and then have the 4th piece dedicated to HP to reach current stats. Then again we don't know how much the stats or changing so this might not be viable, or it could be much better. 

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

Assumptions are being made that

1) Stats are staying as they were and we'll simply have less of everything

2) There isn't a health mod that rebalances the missing health and doesn't rely on every piece having it

...and we know that #1 is not true. Crit is being completely redone, and they have said that they are raising much of the other stats to ensure that the full damage range is not nerfed by that change. So almost every stat in the game will be different after 6/19. 


I think it is fairly safe to assume that every stat we "lost" from the locked-in stats we have now will have a MOD for it. There is no way that TE decided to just remove whole stat categories, as the obvious uproar on the forums would be intense. The whole point of this new expansion pack was to ADD options, not remove them. We complained that gear was stale and we wanted to be able to customize stuff. So they gave us the freedom and room to do so. If you want to use your MOD slots for stats, i am pretty sure you will have that freedom. 


The issue that is not being addressed though is basically the death of the Relic. Orbs were gone before i came on, and now Marks are going away. You only use Totems for like 1-2 defenses in a normal set, which means the overall totality of all relics will simply and only be Medallions. In this update, all old orbs and marks will be converted to Medallion stats anyways, so they will cease to exist apart from name and possibly the graphic. Out of 4 relics, now we use 1 like 95% of the time, and 2 are gone. That whole system then kind of collapsed on itself. Too bad there is not a way (yet) to add some variety in the whole Medallion Relic category. Different kinds that have synergy bonuses to armor sets or something like that. A reason to differentiate one from the other apart from just the numbers on them. 

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"Massive step backwards" and just negative right out the gate, without asking, just assuming. That's ...unfortunate. :(

Health (as well as other secondary stats) scales higher than it previously did. It'll be good to have on a couple pieces, but won't be required for every piece to have as much health as you currently do (unless you want to do that build, then more power to you, the Defenders who like to build like a brick outhouse). To reiterate on every post we've made about this expansion regarding stats and gear, all of them are affected and the amount of stats/scaling has been increased to compensate for the changes. Jose verified.

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I feel like they're kinda jumping the gun saying it's two steps backwards, I'm sure the Trendy team has thought about these problems well before this post was made and have found ways to remedy them in some way, shape, or form.

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