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Blockchain coming to DD2

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Ugh.. I was trying to post that all day today but my company decided to block steam.  Now I cannot log into DD2 at work.


Blockchain will mean that a 3rd party server structure will track and maintain the existence and ownership of game data.  Most likely it will be involved with items and/or currency.  Most examples I have seen of its projected use will be for items.  


This link expands upon the idea and what it could mean for the industry.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/future-of-blockchain-in-gaming/

As an example, it would mean that Items awarded to players are the ownership of the players.  Unique skins, shards, relics... whatever falls within the scope of the blockchain mechanic would all become the sole property of the players.  The uniqueness properties or history of the item would be recorded on several servers simultaneously.  Then the "value" of the item or desirability could be established and trade could potentially take place. (Either item for item, or potentially $$.)  Trendy could not alter or re-define the item as it is no longer their property, but rather the property of the player.  


All of the hard work towards getting a rare and powerful item could have a value both in-game and out.  A value that could be matched with real-life money.  And instead of supporting that via a black-market, it would all be supported purposefully through systems integration with a blockchain concept.


Depending on its implementation, Blockchaining could be the next "Loot Box" mechanic that games all start to integrate into their systems.  

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@Tarius quote:

-snip-

Thanks for the great rundown. That really helped on this topic.


This all makes a lot of sense why TE would be rolling out the item  updates now.  

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Lots of tokens already looking at the games industry, such as Tron. It is an ideal market place. [[78008,users]] nice post buddy.

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Any point to having unique items like this when I have to nuke  them upwards of 50 times thanks to AP resetting. 


Or is this essentially going to be PTW meaning you can then buy some better items from some guy that owns them after  you wipe your gear after each reset?


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Gilding opens the doors to reset proof shards and maybe gear\pets who knows. once gear has a permanence then boosted\special\event gear is possible. Even gilding a vault in your sky city bank to protect gear is possible.

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@Defenso quote:

Any point to having unique items like this when I have to nuke  them upwards of 50 times thanks to AP resetting. 


Or is this essentially going to be PTW meaning you can then buy some better items from some guy that owns them after  you wipe your gear after each reset?


Need to also remember that with "reforging, upgrading, and evolution" that items will be able to go from Campaign to Beyond C7 quality.

Ancient Power resets (prestiging) will no longer permenately nerf items. It will be possible (although probably ecpensive) to raise an item back up to its former glory.

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Good that there will be some items exempt from AP resetting maybe in the future. 

Currently onslaught and AP are a massive wall for me with limited play time the whole 3 maps in a row is a major turn off (especially as the PS4 was a crash fest until the last few patches). 

I took my time getting through mastery to get the 7 shards so had to put up with a lot weeks of limited gear and characters due to the constraints of that mode so it's nice to use a full deck again to blast a couple of onslaught levels but I know once I reset then that's it I am doomed to use 3 or 4 characters with sub par gear for probably the next year so I've been holding off until Trendy address some of these issues and brings in some new updates.


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Woah, so we get to own pixels, in the video game we are renting? 

Not the best analogy but you get my idea.

You can't truly own something that is at disposal of another company and can be removed from you at any time for any reason.

This would just sound like a balance hurdle too, if I own an item, the company cannot change it?

So what happens if theres a rework? Like we have seen in the multiples here in DD2.


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@PandynatorDD quote:

Woah, so we get to own pixels, in the video game we are renting? 

Not the best analogy but you get my idea.

You can't truly own something that is at disposal of another company and can be removed from you at any time for any reason.

This would just sound like a balance hurdle too, if I own an item, the company cannot change it?

So what happens if theres a rework? Like we have seen in the multiples here in DD2.


Well it would mean you need to do something to make people want to swap their items in for new ones. It would also mean the the community would have to have consensus on new stuff that radically change the items you own.

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@Tarius quote:

Blockchain will mean that a 3rd party server structure will track and maintain the existence and ownership of game data.  Most likely it will be involved with items and/or currency.  Most examples I have seen of its projected use will be for items.  

I understand perfectly what a blockchain is.

The question is unanswered though, why would a player care that his "items" are in a blockchain?

There is no reason really I can think of.

Security ?

Well but I don't care how they do it, if the actual system is not secure that's a problem for game companies not mine, why would I be excited that they don't have a secure system in place right now ?

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@mmm quote:


@Tarius quote:

Blockchain will mean that a 3rd party server structure will track and maintain the existence and ownership of game data.  Most likely it will be involved with items and/or currency.  Most examples I have seen of its projected use will be for items.  

I understand perfectly what a blockchain is.

The question is unanswered though, why would a player care that his "items" are in a blockchain?

There is no reason really I can think of.

Security ?

Well but I don't care how they do it, if the actual system is not secure that's a problem for game companies not mine, why would I be excited that they don't have a secure system in place right now ?

The reason why people should want this is that you would be able to actually own what your items are. Say you put 5000hrs into dd2, you have everything and done everything. Well what now? You decide to quit and now you have this mountain of stuff you would love to get rid of, well what if you could trade for money? Cryptocurrency? Other items in other games you are interested in?

A good example of this is I played Black Desert online for a bit and everything I earned is pretty much untradeable. On the other hand I played Tera, Archeage, Trove and Runescape where I was able to find people to buy what I had(although against TOS in every game). In DD1 I didn't sell anything because of how easy it was to hack in items to ranked that it was not really worth attempting to sell(granted I started to want to sell items after I stopped playing it). About that point too I ended up buying dd1 dlc on sale and I would resell later and I added in free gold if someone bought it plus wanted the gold, it gave me an advantage since I had already spent about all the time I was going to in it.

It's kinda like you go walking through a forest and pick mushroom and then when you want to take them home someone shows up and says "No, no, no... you cannot do that, you don't own them!". It means the effort and time you put in are worth more than just the feeling you had but also have other benefits that you can use to enjoy more of something else. Is it worth it to just grind to make money, no but it's more the extra benefit.

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@Infernotez quote:


@mmm quote:


@Tarius quote:

Blockchain will mean that a 3rd party server structure will track and maintain the existence and ownership of game data.  Most likely it will be involved with items and/or currency.  Most examples I have seen of its projected use will be for items.  

I understand perfectly what a blockchain is.

The question is unanswered though, why would a player care that his "items" are in a blockchain?

There is no reason really I can think of.

Security ?

Well but I don't care how they do it, if the actual system is not secure that's a problem for game companies not mine, why would I be excited that they don't have a secure system in place right now ?

The reason why people should want this is that you would be able to actually own what your items are. Say you put 5000hrs into dd2, you have everything and done everything. Well what now? You decide to quit and now you have this mountain of stuff you would love to get rid of, well what if you could trade for money?

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.


Also the real value as we all know depends on how popular a game is and how well is mantained.

Most ppl quit games when they are abandoned and finished their cycle and their items would be worth literally zero.

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@mmm quote:
@Infernotez quote:


@mmm quote:


@Tarius quote:

Blockchain will mean that a 3rd party server structure will track and maintain the existence and ownership of game data.  Most likely it will be involved with items and/or currency.  Most examples I have seen of its projected use will be for items.  

I understand perfectly what a blockchain is.

The question is unanswered though, why would a player care that his "items" are in a blockchain?

There is no reason really I can think of.

Security ?

Well but I don't care how they do it, if the actual system is not secure that's a problem for game companies not mine, why would I be excited that they don't have a secure system in place right now ?

The reason why people should want this is that you would be able to actually own what your items are. Say you put 5000hrs into dd2, you have everything and done everything. Well what now? You decide to quit and now you have this mountain of stuff you would love to get rid of, well what if you could trade for money?

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.


Also the real value as we all know depends on how popular a game is and how well is mantained.

Most ppl quit games when they are abandoned and finished their cycle and their items would be worth literally zero.

Ya but all those games that you CAN sell your items for stuff outside the game may also try to ban you or the other person in the trade. Like warframe has a pretty big trading system, but they will ban people who sell platinum. I still have like 5k platinum + items but can't really sell it and not much use for that much platinum.

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I may be wrong as I dont fully understand this blockchain is.

But as mentioned about once your done with your items and you dont want them anymore and you consider them worthless some other player may find a use for them.


As the old saying gose. One mans junk is another mans treasure.

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@Infernotez quote:

Ya but all those games that you CAN sell your items for stuff outside the game may also try to ban you or the other person in the trade. 


Sure but that's exactly the point.

The difference is not using blockchain or not, the difference is ONLY the willingness of devs to let the players sell or not.

IF THE DEVS WANT they could allow players to sell even now and even without blockchain (diablo 3) and if they dont want blockchain or not doesn't matter.


So the point is just a decision of devs not what technology they use.

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@mmm quote:

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.

Sorry, but you are 100% completely wrong here. Blizzard has End-User Agreements that specifically state that the content, virtual items, character accounts.. are all their intellectual property. You own NOTHING.


@Infernotez quote:

Ya but all those games that you CAN sell your items for stuff outside the game may also try to ban you or the other person in the trade. 

This is 100% true. In MOST games you are eligible for a non-refundable perma-ban if you try to personally profit off of someone else's game. Hell, Nintendo has sued and won against people for streaming themselves playing a Nintendo game before.


I do not think you truly understand what is being proposed here, and recommend you read the article I posted at the top of the thread.

I am cool with people sharing their views. You can think the idea is bad, or stupid. But some of the stuff you have posted here is just factually wrong.


The most common application of Blockchaining in videogames now is the following...

1) Direct purchases of unique items

2) limited or unique skins

3) the trade or reselling of those items.


If you got a unique Mount in WOW and tried to sell it for cash, You could lose everything.

You get a rare skin, awarded to you for winning a completion, and blockchain is involved for selling... You could keep it for yourself for years and then sell it later to a whale for $$$$. All securely supported by the game and it's partners with no challenge legally.


How Trendy plans to do Blockchain is still unknown. I for one seriously doubted where this latest Expansion was going to take us. I thought their planning and design was in question. However, after learning the vision they have for the update, I am impressed. We will need to see how well it handles at release, but I know they will patch it as required and make it a success.

They have earned my faith, and good will. I am interested to see how they incorporate blockchaining.


Meanwhile, as long as blockchaining does not negatively effect me.. I see it as a positive for DD2. The unique inclusion should garnish interest into the game, raise awareness, and increase the playerbase.

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@Tarius quote:


@mmm quote:

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.

Sorry, but you are 100% completely wrong here. Blizzard has End-User Agreements that specifically state that the content, virtual items, character accounts.. are all their intellectual property. You own NOTHING.


@Infernotez quote:

Ya but all those games that you CAN sell your items for stuff outside the game may also try to ban you or the other person in the trade. 

This is 100% true. In MOST games you are eligible for a non-refundable perma-ban if you try to personally profit off of someone else's game. Hell, Nintendo has sued and won against people for streaming themselves playing a Nintendo game before.


I do not think you truly understand what is being proposed here, and recommend you read the article I posted at the top of the thread.

I am cool with people sharing their views. You can think the idea is bad, or stupid. But some of the stuff you have posted here is just factually wrong.


The most common application of Blockchaining in videogames now is the following...

1) Direct purchases of unique items

2) limited or unique skins

3) the trade or reselling of those items.


If you got a unique Mount in WOW and tried to sell it for cash, You could lose everything.

You get a rare skin, awarded to you for winning a completion, and blockchain is involved for selling... You could keep it for yourself for years and then sell it later to a whale for $$$$. All securely supported by the game and it's partners with no challenge legally.


How Trendy plans to do Blockchain is still unknown. I for one seriously doubted where this latest Expansion was going to take us. I thought their planning and design was in question. However, after learning the vision they have for the update, I am impressed. We will need to see how well it handles at release, but I know they will patch it as required and make it a success.

They have earned my faith, and good will. I am interested to see how they incorporate blockchaining.


Meanwhile, as long as blockchaining does not negatively effect me.. I see it as a positive for DD2. The unique inclusion should garnish interest into the game, raise awareness, and increase the playerbase.

Ya blockchain is merely the ledger for which a currency or asset is transferred. There is also A LOT of potential for developers to work together to cross pollinate their games too. Say warframe wanted to target people who play DD2, well they could offer to give you something for certain stuff in dd2. I mean not everything would need to be on the blockchain as some things do make sense for not being tradeable(say unlimited color pallets from warframe) but what if they offered a dd2 themed color pallet for free to users for giving x amounts of stuff and make a deal with trendy, sell it themselves or just trash it. It could be a way to also target audiences in the future with say alphas or other things. It also gives opportunities to developers to try and engage users, when you consider marketing can cost as much or more than the cost of a game then having more methods to get stuff in front of a user is good.  This is all stuff that is enabled when a system like this shows up in more games.  It's not something that will immediately show it's value until later as games take advantage of it.

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@Tarius quote:


@mmm quote:

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.

Sorry, but you are 100% completely wrong here. Blizzard has End-User Agreements that specifically state that the content, virtual items, character accounts.. are all their intellectual property. You own NOTHING.


EXACTLY!


The point is that the ownership of virtual content DEPENDS ON THE DEVS DECISION, not on the use of blockchain.


It's not blockchain that allows any of that, it is only the willingness of devs, they could do it even right now without blockchain if they wanted to.

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@mmm quote:

EXACTLY!


The point is that the ownership of virtual content DEPENDS ON THE DEVS DECISION, not on the use of blockchain.


It's not blockchain that allows any of that, it is only the willingness of devs, they could do it even right now without blockchain if they wanted to.

The difference is that Developers can change their mind on a whim.  Even Blizzard did that with Diablo 3.  Item stats changed after they were already in the inventories of the Players.  


Imagine this...
You see a listing for a cool item that is insanely rare.  You normally don't buy items with real money, but for some reason the item listed is seriously tempting you.  Be it a unique skin or an Item with a cool combination of stats and a Unique on-equip bonus.  You've decided that you really like the game and the purchase is worth it.  -BAMMMM!- ya buy it.

You equip the thing, and are really happy with your purchase.  People notice the unique item and share their envy.

A week later a patch is released that significantly changes the stats, effect, or visual appearance of the item.  It is no longer what you wanted to purchase... in fact if it was this way prior you would not have spent the real life money.  You regret the purchase... and feel betrayed.

The developers have 100% absolute rule.  Maybe they are considerate and dont change your gear... maybe they make sweeping changes without thinking about how such situations are affected.  The point is... you have no control.  And now... because of being screwed over... you have no faith.


With blockchaining, a 3rd party is involved managing such situations.  There are rules and regulations that determine if -or- how items can be affected by later changes.  The entire point of these systems is to protect the end-user from these types of situations.  Any changes would need to be vetted and understood prior to being implemented.  The blockchain prevents arbitrarily corruption / changing of data by having multiple servers dedicated to recorder data-states ensuring that ownership, quality, and specific characteristics are retained despite future updates.

The idea behind Blockchaining is to have protections in place that give the buyers confidence in the purchase, and instill measurable value behind the items that are being exchanged.  Without that, there is no backing to the item's value... and it can be changed on a whim without and consideration to your own personal opinions on the matter.  


The entire point of Blockchaining is that it removes the decision and control of the items away from the developers after the items are released to the public.  The willingness of the Developers becomes arbitrary.  All of their design choices must be made with blockchaining as a constraint and conduit. 

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@mmm quote:


@Tarius quote:


@mmm quote:

cmon that's bull***, you could trade items in many games in the past, sometimes even internally (diablo 3 at release) or externally.


The point is always if the devs create a game thought for selling items or not, then blockchain or not doesnt matter.

My diablo 3 items belonged to me anyway even without blockchain.

Same as my items in WOW or any other MMO.

Sorry, but you are 100% completely wrong here. Blizzard has End-User Agreements that specifically state that the content, virtual items, character accounts.. are all their intellectual property. You own NOTHING.


EXACTLY!


The point is that the ownership of virtual content DEPENDS ON THE DEVS DECISION, not on the use of blockchain.


It's not blockchain that allows any of that, it is only the willingness of devs, they could do it even right now without blockchain if they wanted to.

Ya but without using something as the middleware there is not a high chance individual games would implement stuff like it. I mean steam has been that middleware to a degree, but that's only somewhat of the solution and even that does not really work well anymore.

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@Tarius quote:

The difference is that Developers can change their mind on a whim.  Even Blizzard did that with Diablo 3.  Item stats changed after they were already in the inventories of the Players.  


True but the same applies anyway with blockchain, the value of the "coin" is not guaranteed, meaning if trendy closes the server your items will be worth zero anyway.

Or if the players just drop, sure you own an item worth nothing.

Also the existance of blockchain doesnt relaly imply that trendy will support them anyway.


Do you see your grandchildren in 2080 going on trial with trendy heirs to redeem your lost medallion ?

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Blockchaining has more rules and regulations about what can and cannot happen... than systems without it.


There are risks investing money in anything.  Too many "what-ifs" to list them all.  Investing in any game depends on your interest, dedication, and entertainment value.  There are always going to a level of risks involved in spending money in a virtual environment.  The point is Blockchaining eliminates (or attempts to eliminate) a portion of the risks.  Not all.  But some of them.  

The same concept is true with the stock market.  You invest into a company.  The shares are worth a specific amount at that time.  The company goes bankrupt.  How much are the shares worth then?  The value is not fixed, it is never fixed.  The value is relative to the health of the market, the health of the company, the interest/demand in the company.  The point of having a regulated market is that at no point can a company arbitrarily say "No, I dont recognize the value of the stock you are trying to sell.. Nope..  I dont want to acknowledge that... Thank you for the money, but you own nothing."  The laws require a value to be assigned to the Share equal to the share-value of the company.  

Blockchaining is slightly more ethereal because the items are not a share of the video game company's wealth.  The item values are determined by the more fickle nature of the community of players' value or interest in the items.  Blockchaining is just a regimented structure within which the transactions can take place, a platform, independent of the control of the game's development company.  



[[21181,users]]
Aside from your insistence that it is not required, what is your argument against Blockchaining?  What is your argument against 3rd party monitoring and regulating exchanges in a virtual environment?



The question is as thus... (yeah, I used thus)
If you are going to have a virtual economy where real-life money can exchange hands over goods, items, or services... do you want it regulated by a third party or not?

  • Do you trust the power to be centralized into one entity that controls everything?
  • Or do you want the power to be distributed across multiple entities with diverging interests, where checks-and-balances are in place to ensure some semblance of market stability.

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I have nothing against blockchain or any regulation.

I am saying just that this would be more of a socioeconomic experiment than a "feature" for players.

And that if any dev wanted they could have allowed this stuff in the past or future anyway.


About the necessity of a thir party, well the main problem is that I wouldnt want a third party to basically print money like paypal or steam does.

But since this is pretty much fantasy fiction I would need first to see actual implementations to judge well.

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