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Pulchritudinous Washboard

Lightning Towers on the beta

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So Lightning Towers got a 20% damage nerf on the beta and so far from my testing it doesn't

change how people are going to run maps at all, you'll still be able to do all the LT

builds as normal, the only thing the nerf really does is unnecessarily slow down some maps,

moonbase survival being the most obvious. LT game play is completely unchanged.


I'm not suggesting that LTs get even more of a nerf because at that point they'll have come full circle

and be back where they were before the buff.


So if a specific nerf can't be decided upon then I think they should just stay as they are on 8.3, maybe hold off on nerfing them until 8.5

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I will agree with washboard here. Just doing a raw damage nerf will only make maps take longer to finish.

Imo making them not be able to hit bosses would be a good nerf, but many people don't agree with it

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The more i think about LT the more i think they should not be able to stack damage like traps and auras this would fix LT killing bosses LT being used as ogre killers and more focus LT on being Trash mob killers this would also indirectly stop a lot of the  tower stack we see now which is also being debated.

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20% DMG nerf felt like it had next to no effect on my builds... coz stats...
So yeah, flat nerf is kinda... meh.
Having them do 50% less damage to Bosses however would be more than enough of a balance.

lolzcoolcat -- Your suggestion would kill LTs -- 7 DU destroy-able physical tower for crowd-control? Makes them useless. Plus if it doesn't stack the attack, you'd be wiping out maps even faster becasue now multiple LTs will hit more enemies across the map. Combine with a Jester which can roll Kill% when there's nothing but Ogres/Djinns on the map you're looking at even worse of a situation than what exists. :)

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I think this is similar to a post I made a while back.  Basically, I think LTs need to be changed in a way that affects gameplay, so you actually choose to use other towers as well.  Games are supposed to be a series of interesting choices, so balance changes should be something that makes the game more interesting or fun, but the flat damage nerf doesn't really do that.

So I guess I'd support taking the nerf out if that's what people want.  It looks like the community still has ideas for a more appropriate nerf, but that would need more discussion and would have to happen in Update 5.

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I support the 20% Nerf  on the beta ... However i wouldnt support that they dont target Bosses at all. Maybe doing like 30% Less dmg against bosses So they dont like completely killing the bosses in a few seconds.

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@Travence ツ quote:

Maybe doing like 30% Less dmg against bosses So they dont like completely killing the bosses in a few seconds.


@Black Mamba quote:

Having them do 50% less damage to Bosses however would be more than enough of a balance.

I think this is something most people can agree on. I would support a X% less dmg to bosses, this would solve the problem of being able to afk bosses and would keep the great map clear that I expect people would want unchanged.

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I would support the dmg nerf to the bosses! 30-50 would most likely be good range to work with, lts would still help with bosses, but it would be easier and quicker to also do some dps instead of just sitting in top of towers with tower booster.

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I agree with my boi washyboi here, but personally i dont think they should do less damage on bosses, ive only found them effective so i wanna use them on the bird boss on ember, But it takes much longer time to do the boss then which i think it evens it out, when you do it with eve you usually kill it in a few seconds if she doesnt fly weird. I support having different strategies for bosses with different advantages. For example when you kill with towerboost you can have more chars but as i said a cost of time. if you dont use it you have less chars in but it allows you to kill it faster.

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50% nerf to boss dps should be tested/incorporated in this update I think. The longer this gets pushed back, the greater the inertia to just keep everything the same. I'd support a change (any change, big or small) over the status quo regarding LTs,

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@Pulchritudinous Washboard quote:

 this would solve the problem of being able to afk bosses

How? Wont i still be able to place lightnings, boost, and win without any risk of failing? It seems like you guys are against flat damage nerf because it just means more afk without any changes to building, but wouldn't less damage to bosses do the exact same thing?

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You can't possibly sustain having LTs doing 50% less dmg to Bosses AND go AFK at the same time on maps like Ember, WW, etc. Repairs and a decent amount of DPS will definitely be needed to cope the damage reduction. Becasue:
-- Firstly, it will increase the time required to finish maps which have Bosses by quite a bit.
-- Secondly, most people in the current 3.5-4k stat range can, with minimal effort, AFK most Bosses currently. They will be forced to bring out DPS and kill Bosses to avoid any potential wipe-out.

So your assertion that less damage to Bosses will force more AFKING, is misplaced.
OR...
it could very well be right, but that can only be proven if the suggested changed is applied in this beta branch and people get to test it out first. We can never know for sure how it will pan out. Moreover given the fact that maybe 15-20% of active players actually test the Beta, the sample size is too low for bringing in a major change like this. Something has to be done to increase beta testing participation.

Side note:
A flat out nerf I'm still strongly against, which is consistent with my position on the previous thread.
So if after applying a 50% damage reduction from LTs to Bosses, if there isn't consensus, maybe nothing can be done other than reverting LTs to how they are right now. Sadly there's no point in bickering over it if there can't be consensus.

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@Dark Dragon quote:

How? Wont i still be able to place lightnings, boost, and win without any risk of failing? It seems like you guys are against flat damage nerf because it just means more afk without any changes to building, but wouldn't less damage to bosses do the exact same thing?

The idea is that it would take so long to beat the bosses that it would be more efficient to just dps them, encouraging players to dps rather then sit around. And ofc I'm against more afking, like who wouldn't be?????????

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@Pulchritudinous Washboard quote:

The idea is that it would take so long to beat the bosses that it would be more efficient to just dps them, encouraging players to dps rather then sit around. And ofc I'm against more afking, like who wouldn't be?????????

Also, if the cupids on ToL take a long time to die, the chance that they'll fly directly overhead and destroy the LTs increases.

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Precisely why a 50% damage reduction would make sense in that Map and will actually force people to *again* go back to old-school builds and DPS those pesky Cupids.

(Talking about Cupids... their hovering height should be reduced a tad bit so that... with some effort... melee chars can land a few hits on them! :D )

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I replaced the current nerf with a 50% damage nerf versus bosses for the next build.  It's not live yet, and I don't know if it'll go into the final 8.4 build, but whenever the beta is updated you all will be able to try it out and let us know what you think :)

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What are people's thoughts on capping the chain amount?

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@Garzhod quote:

What are people's thoughts on capping the chain amount?

There was a similar proposal of nerfing the allowable range between chaining targets. I was personally in favor of testing this nerf, but I think there was a fair amount of push back. Many players would also oppose a hard cap as you're suggesting as that would destroy the value of a lot of LT gear since tower radius currently determine the number of chaining targets.

50% boss nerf is good starting point, but we'll have to see if that's actually enough to push players into switching to dps heroes for boss waves. My guess is that's probably enough for Embermount, but maybe not for WW and ToL if your defenses are sturdy enough.

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@ApexStorm quote:


@Garzhod quote:

What are people's thoughts on capping the chain amount?

There was a similar proposal of nerfing the allowable range between chaining targets. I was personally in favor of testing this nerf, but I think there was a fair amount of push back. Many players would also oppose a hard cap as you're suggesting as that would destroy the value of a lot of LT gear since tower radius currently determine the number of chaining targets.

50% boss nerf is good starting point, but we'll have to see if that's actually enough to push players into switching to dps heroes for boss waves. My guess is that's probably enough for Embermount, but maybe not for WW and ToL if your defenses are sturdy enough.

I'd be interested to see the impact. I know people would think it would render radius useless, but there are still other towers to be used and one tower isn't going to ruin a whole stat across the board. Deadly strike is the first that comes to mind. When I first came back and saw people chaining across the map, that's what felt broke to me over the damage.

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