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Fozzie

Dungeon Defenders 2 is failing

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@Superb_Dog quote:

I love this game. It's my fave.

I believe it's not failing and hope it doesn't fail at all. I put my faith in Trendy but i also have faith in this community. It's not even a year old and i hope this game goes on for many years.

Considering most people overall are not playing, most people who played before are not playing and most people who played dd1 are not playing there is a lot of issues. The pets are stat sticks, the weapons are homogenized and fairly easy to get, the bosses are easy, the amount of time their level designers have had and we have barely gotten a few maps, most of the maps are small, most of the maps aren't that interesting, the enemies are less fun plus more annoying, resetting your character seems pointless(yay I grinded 500hrs to grind 1000 more for +1 stat) and the biggest I can think of off the top of my head is I have 0 reasons to go back as of now which brings us back to the beginning.

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Just sharing my 2 cents.

I feel like the game already failed me. I havent played since the last update. 

I got over 1500 hours of gameplay and I'm simply tired of solo play.

I remember why I used to enjoy this game back in alpha. There were only a couple maps available and playing in groups was just the norm.

Now everyone is lost somewhere in the floor climb and have no reason to play together.

Different solutions have been proposed by multiple people, but they fell into deaf ears.

Right now i'm taking a break, I'll come back whenever Trendy actually attempts to address the problem with their updates.

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@Kornichon quote:

Just sharing my 2 cents.

I feel like the game already failed me. I havent played since the last update. 

I got over 1500 hours of gameplay and I'm simply tired of solo play.

I remember why I used to enjoy this game back in alpha. There were only a couple maps available and playing in groups was just the norm.

Now everyone is lost somewhere in the floor climb and have no reason to play together.

Different solutions have been proposed by multiple people, but they fell into deaf ears.

Right now i'm taking a break, I'll come back whenever Trendy actually attempts to address the problem with their updates.

The floor climb sounded cancerous once I heard there was different amounts of maps per level. It should have been 1 map per level. This was supposed to be onslaught(more of an endless type of mode) but instead just being an endless annoying grinding dungeon.


This is the entire reason why I said DD2 was not ready to go out of early access, the core loop of the game is not fun. They pushed it out the door and now the likelihood of people coming back has dropped drastically. I'm not saying there is no fun to be had but the loop breaks after you hit lvl 50 and things just start to become annoying rather than fun. There is tens of thousands of games out there and why should I tell any single person to play this game over any other? I have pretty much said for quite some time that the game is not fun to anyone who asks and those who try it anyways agree after a short while.

I bought in for the defense council due to how much I loved the first game. Throughout much of the early council days there was not much to really critique considering it was all theory and rough features. There was some stuff but not much fun. Then the game updated more and more following an early access release which showed promise of getting us closer to the vision with some actual features based on the design. It was the peak of the game for most people I have talked to as that was the point where they had a good base and needed to build around it. Around that point it seemed like they were aiming to make more interesting mobs with more difficulty but it just ended up being hard counters forcing our hands to play one way. Many of the towers were underpowered and they have since tried to revamp them but honestly it seems like it still comes down to select towers being effective for most things and most being pointless because it will be countered by a mob too easily. The revamp to the shard system sounded great and the ascension system was something we were asking for but it lead to too easily getting the shards you need and only a select few being useful but having them is necessary. As it stands most flavor shards(like bowling ball turrets) are worthless as you take a massive hit to damage. The relics system ended up being just 1 choice per tower and the majority MUST use crit or be woefully low on damage. It's still more effective to have a builder and a fighter due to the points having overlap.

There is more but I already spent more time than this game probably deserves at this point. The only reason I still check and post some here is I want this to be a good game, the upcoming update is likely when I either care more or uninstall and stop coming to this forum.

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Hello it's me again your friendly lovable defender.

I have been with this game since the beginning of the train wreck moba and even the promising limited, but fun beta.

How many years have I said this crap?

All Trendy had to do was build on what made DD1 so successful and this would of been something real special. 

Instead they went the f2p route and well lost the spirit of what the original was about.

The thing is this game is a shell of what it really could have been. All freedom has been removed from the players in modes that count.

Why? I don't have a clue, only Trendy can answer that one.

Trading may come in, but what exactly am I trading that makes me give a ***?

Player shops were amazing for socially interacting with the community and making new friends. Instead we have the town area where you are spammed with invites to join people, who you have never met before.

People say the last update was geared at the hardcore players?

Onslaught was so close to being something fun and addictive, but the floor system is tedious and boring.

AP rewards is a slap in the face to any serious player left. Let's see here I reset my whole gear for that juicy 1% power which if it had more than ya know 5% cap may and I say this carefully may give some incentive to waste your time in.

You want real end game? Again take a page from DD1. Survival mode was so much better, it wasn't as time intensive and hell even DDE did it better than DD2. The 1 hour system to try your luck at the best gear and ever scaling enemies wasn't terrible in the least and gives that sweet spot to people who want to see progression.

Now can we talk about the armor system?

I'm not seeing a difference between Legendary and worn gear drop rate. So something which is supposed to be so rare is dropping like oranges squeezed freshly from [[58175,users]] youtube icon.

Pets uhm what exactly happened to them? Moving on.

Now I'm going to touch on my biggest Pet peeve.

Nightmare mode....

Why in the hell did you cut the balls off it?

Where the hell is hardcore mode?

You guys have said that you won't implement it in because of server stability and that to that I call BS. It's funny how in it's infancy playverse servers were hosting DDE  and what do you know? Hardcore mode was included and even with the occasional lag spikes to your death people were appreciative of it.

Where are my Sharken and Djinn? Something unique and would punish you. Some people still have ptsd from there walls being moved to this day. What's the worst this game can anger you?

That damn cybork and his hammer of justice disabled my trap/auras for all of 5 seconds.

Instead the most original thing you can come up with is another variety of a flying Kobold for what's supposed to the the hardest difficulty.

Which boggles the mind since you have a werewolf creature which we all know is still in the game, but won't be released because and I quote you can't think of an interesting gameplay mechanic for it.

Now we touch on the biggest flaw of the end game. Chaos tiers.

You were set in your way to make a clone of Diablo 3's torment system and how did that work out for you?

An incremental difficulty system which added one new enemy and very little to the gameplay.

Now let's touch on the mob itself. What the hell happened to there movement speed?

They move like slugs. You can build as close as you want to the spawn because they are too slow to make any progress to your crystal. If you tried that in DD1 you would get clobbered, because the enemy didn't care it would speed up right to your crystal and that would be good game, git gud.

What a spit into the face to the legacy which is Nightmare mode. 

Eh it's so frustrating pointing out what should have been obvious from the beginning.

Damn you [[52650,users]] for making this thread and making me go on a rant again.

 It's fine to try new things, but when you stray away from the formula which was successful in generating a fan base and a profitable income.

Well that's just stupid.

Again this was purely to repeat everything I have said in the years of production of DD2 and how it evolved into what we have now.

It will be ignored now as it was ignored then.

Trendy have there road map after all which they are sticking to blindly and foolishly. All we can do is hope that some of the changes they plan for the game reminisce something of the fun of the original.

I mean I will always appreciate you guys for the Magic which is DD1, but get a clue why your numbers are dropping and unfortunately constructive criticsm even when it's mostly negative just has to be said.

Maybe, just maybe it will be enough to turn this game into something we always believed it could be.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

-snip -

I would agree with this (except the sharken !@#$ those guys) For me the most fun game play I have had in DD2 was during the nightmare days. Now, the game play in onslaught was fun when I tried it but the implementation of the map system takes the fun away and makes it frustrating. So I think there is something if they want to make the changes necessary. 

The nightmare mode in DD1 with the new enemies even that damn sharken didn't counter heroes. They made you think though. If your traps are out to far Djinn suck them up. If you don't cover your towers backs the spiders will web them. if you don't have good lane DPS the Sharken come and make you buy the Jester. Probably my least favorite next to the sharken was the Air assault ogres. Nothing says you screwed up like letting an ogre get dropped in by copter to wreck your day. None of those mobs prevented you from using certain towers and all of them could be defeated with multiple towers. 

The big take away for fun is giving the players the flexibility and freedom to build the way they want and be successful. 

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Help me understand something because I guess I'm missing it. If everyone wants this game to be like DD1 so much, why don't you go play DD1? Its still there, still gets updates and is still the fun game you remember it being. Why are we trying so hard to make DD2 a copy of it? What is it about DD2 that you want to be DD1 that you can't get from playing DD1? If the answer is your are done or tired of playing DD1, then wouldn't making DD2 just like it make it just as boring to play?

I personally would rather have DD2 be different and try different things to find a new fun rather than go back to the old fun which I still have installed on my PC and still have all my heroes in (not to mention I can make new heroes forever and ever for free and it will reset my progression without ascension messing it up). Would I like some kind of say in what we get? Yes but everyone has their own idea of what is fun or what DD2 needs but that doesn't reflect everyone, only oneself. 

"We" dont want DD2 to be like DD1 because that makes "me" part of "we" and I don't want copies of games I already have, that's just a personal opinion you have and each person who agrees has their own idea of which part of DD1 they want in DD2. Also, the forums are just part of the community and we have no idea how many people share the same thoughts.

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@Exglint quote:

Help me understand something because I guess I'm missing it. If everyone wants this game to be like DD1 so much, why don't you go play DD1? Its still there, still gets updates and is still the fun game you remember it being. Why are we trying so hard to make DD2 a copy of it? What is it about DD2 that you want to be DD1 that you can't get from playing DD1? If the answer is your are done or tired of playing DD1, then wouldn't making DD2 just like it make it just as boring to play?

I personally would rather have DD2 be different and try different things to find a new fun rather than go back to the old fun which I still have installed on my PC and still have all my heroes in (not to mention I can make new heroes forever and ever for free and it will reset my progression without ascension messing it up). Would I like some kind of say in what we get? Yes but everyone has their own idea of what is fun or what DD2 needs but that doesn't reflect everyone, only oneself. 

"We" dont want DD2 to be like DD1 because that makes "me" part of "we" and I don't want copies of games I already have, that's just a personal opinion you have and each person who agrees has their own idea of which part of DD1 they want in DD2. Also, the forums are just part of the community and we have no idea how many people share the same thoughts.

There are things about DD2 that I like better than DD1 like the UI, hero swapping, the mana system (not the amount of green mana per wave), no 30 second build timer. I personally like the latest iteration of the shard system on the individual tower.

I don't want it to be a clone but I think you are missing the point of the argument. When people point out what the fun parts of DD1 are they are not saying put that in the game. It is an example of the formula that was used that is missing from DD2. Those are examples of what made DD1 so much fun and as a result successful enough (as you pointed out) to be still played and updated by a community that loves it. 


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@Exglint quote:

Help me understand something because I guess I'm missing it. If everyone wants this game to be like DD1 so much, why don't you go play DD1? 

I think this is possibly a misinterpretation.  I have never read that anyone wants DD1 "remastered".  We use DD1 as the example by which DD2 should have evolved from.  We do want a new, updated, unique game, that continued where DD1 left off rather than trying to re-hash itself.  This is where the great divide began.  Foremost DD2 was not intended to be tower defense 4 years ago, it was a moba.  They then learned, "Oops..." and overhauled the game back to TD.  We don't necessarily want the exact same DD1 but we want the recipe of DD1 inside of DD2.  We received too much of a re-hash that is too much of a current work in progress.

Understandable, mobs would carry over to a degree from DD1 to DD2.  But the mechanics they gave us was a limited, gated, ogres and mini-bosses which are much too easy (lets not fool ourselves there really are no bosses in end game content), with progression that is not very meaningful to farm / repeat.  

This could go into much more detail but to go back to the first part of the response is pretty much what most people are looking for.  I realize beer goggles may look at this and say I am using "we" again "most people" but the threads really haven't changed over four years.

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Me to , its a blast and actually enjoying the AP resetting , always a ton of folks in town and the lots in the PS4 communities, I believe and cannot confirm but xbox has the highest player base at the moment.


@Superb_Dog quote:

I love this game. It's my fave.

I believe it's not failing and hope it doesn't fail at all. I put my faith in Trendy but i also have faith in this community. It's not even a year old and i hope this game goes on for many years.


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@BeerGoggles quote:

Probably about the same # as 6 months ago. Just guessing though, since I have nothing else to go on. But you're guessing it's higher for some reason. Know something I don't?


@Chappyy quote:

And how many of those numbers are just people doing dailies and logging off? That alone counts you as played on that day. I can't imagine that people that log in for dailies is the profit generating target group a company goes for.


Just an assumption, but I figure folks who play for awhile become folks who log in just for the dailies.  I can't imagine that they start that way.  This suggests that the number logging in for the quick medals would grow over time.  That growth would be slowed by those who quit entirely.

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People in town on the PS4 community is an interesting metric by which to evaluate the game.  Yes, there are usually people in town.  I have found myself standing solo in town-square a few times, but that is not the norm.  That said, my town experience consists of one fella spamming the training grounds so no one else can test a tower (why not cap this to 3-4 towers per player max?), getting spammed with invites from randoms, and some fella that I can't mute slinging profanities that my children shouldn't have to endure (can't stop stupidity).  

If I accept the above invite, 99.999% of the time it's someone new to the game who is looking for "help."  No mic....just help.  So, if I play with them...they get to watch a flame aura nuke enemies at spawn in campaign mode.  Not much chance to teach them anything since no mic.  I get bored because the maps provide no challenge or gear.  They get disheartened because the stuff they're sleeping through was obliterating them prior to my arrival.  One of us heads back to town...and the cycle repeats.

For a free to play game, particularly on console, number of folks in town is an inaccurate metric.  There will always be folks trying free games.  How many stick around?  The only place I could see this info is in actual maps/levels, and from what I've witnessed, that is not a pretty picture.  For me, it's been a solo game.  Not JUST because I'm an introverted jerk, but also because it is extremely rare to see a public game....or one on my floor of onslaught  (0-65).

I do enjoy the game.  Wish there were more to it.

@uzar quote:

Me to , its a blast and actually enjoying the AP resetting , always a ton of folks in town and the lots in the PS4 communities, I believe and cannot confirm but xbox has the highest player base at the moment

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I didn't say it was accurate but either is pointing out and basing game life on PC only stream data when there are 3 platforms.  New come  , old go basing the life on the game on a handful of salt tossers is not accurate either. 

If folks can whine about the game on forums i can point out how much i am having and all new people i meet every day.

Public games in any game is a crap shoot , go try it out on Diablo , that's what friends list and private games are for in any online game. I roll the dice , find some decent players and go from there, been doing it for over 30 yrs playing online games ( dial up ).

I played countless games for a very long time , probably longer then most have been alive on this forum ,do i judge the life of those games because i stopped playing , they are all still very much alive and active even after so many years. I believe everquest just had their 19th anniversary, talk about a grinding game.

And sometimes listening to the open mic town talk is entertainment in itself.

@jaden198 quote:

People in town on the PS4 community is an interesting metric by which to evaluate the game.  Yes, there are usually people in town.  I have found myself standing solo in town-square a few times, but that is not the norm.  That said, my town experience consists of one fella spamming the training grounds so no one else can test a tower (why not cap this to 3-4 towers per player max?), getting spammed with invites from randoms, and some fella that I can't mute slinging profanities that my children shouldn't have to endure (can't stop stupidity).  

If I accept the above invite, 99.999% of the time it's someone new to the game who is looking for "help."  No mic....just help.  So, if I play with them...they get to watch a flame aura nuke enemies at spawn in campaign mode.  Not much chance to teach them anything since no mic.  I get bored because the maps provide no challenge or gear.  They get disheartened because the stuff they're sleeping through was obliterating them prior to my arrival.  One of us heads back to town...and the cycle repeats.

For a free to play game, particularly on console, number of folks in town is an inaccurate metric.  There will always be folks trying free games.  How many stick around?  The only place I could see this info is in actual maps/levels, and from what I've witnessed, that is not a pretty picture.  For me, it's been a solo game.  Not JUST because I'm an introverted jerk, but also because it is extremely rare to see a public game....or one on my floor of onslaught  (0-65).

I do enjoy the game.  Wish there were more to it.

@uzar quote:

Me to , its a blast and actually enjoying the AP resetting , always a ton of folks in town and the lots in the PS4 communities, I believe and cannot confirm but xbox has the highest player base at the moment


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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Hello it's me again your friendly lovable defender.

I have been with this game since the beginning of the train wreck moba and even the promising limited, but fun beta.

How many years have I said this crap?

All Trendy had to do was build on what made DD1 so successful and this would of been something real special. 

Instead they went the f2p route and well lost the spirit of what the original was about.

The thing is this game is a shell of what it really could have been. All freedom has been removed from the players in modes that count.

Why? I don't have a clue, only Trendy can answer that one.

Trading may come in, but what exactly am I trading that makes me give a ***?

Player shops were amazing for socially interacting with the community and making new friends. Instead we have the town area where you are spammed with invites to join people, who you have never met before.

People say the last update was geared at the hardcore players?

Onslaught was so close to being something fun and addictive, but the floor system is tedious and boring.

AP rewards is a slap in the face to any serious player left. Let's see here I reset my whole gear for that juicy 1% power which if it had more than ya know 5% cap may and I say this carefully may give some incentive to waste your time in.

You want real end game? Again take a page from DD1. Survival mode was so much better, it wasn't as time intensive and hell even DDE did it better than DD2. The 1 hour system to try your luck at the best gear and ever scaling enemies wasn't terrible in the least and gives that sweet spot to people who want to see progression.

Now can we talk about the armor system?

I'm not seeing a difference between Legendary and worn gear drop rate. So something which is supposed to be so rare is dropping like oranges squeezed freshly from Juicebags youtube icon.

Pets uhm what exactly happened to them? Moving on.

Now I'm going to touch on my biggest Pet peeve.

Nightmare mode....

Why in the hell did you cut the balls off it?

Where the hell is hardcore mode?

You guys have said that you won't implement it in because of server stability and that to that I call BS. It's funny how in it's infancy playverse servers were hosting DDE  and what do you know? Hardcore mode was included and even with the occasional lag spikes to your death people were appreciative of it.

Where are my Sharken and Djinn? Something unique and would punish you. Some people still have ptsd from there walls being moved to this day. What's the worst this game can anger you?

That damn cybork and his hammer of justice disabled my trap/auras for all of 5 seconds.

Instead the most original thing you can come up with is another variety of a flying Kobold for what's supposed to the the hardest difficulty.

Which boggles the mind since you have a werewolf creature which we all know is still in the game, but won't be released because and I quote you can't think of an interesting gameplay mechanic for it.

Now we touch on the biggest flaw of the end game. Chaos tiers.

You were set in your way to make a clone of Diablo 3's torment system and how did that work out for you?

An incremental difficulty system which added one new enemy and very little to the gameplay.

Now let's touch on the mob itself. What the hell happened to there movement speed?

They move like slugs. You can build as close as you want to the spawn because they are too slow to make any progress to your crystal. If you tried that in DD1 you would get clobbered, because the enemy didn't care it would speed up right to your crystal and that would be good game, git gud.

What a spit into the face to the legacy which is Nightmare mode. 

Eh it's so frustrating pointing out what should have been obvious from the beginning.

Damn you fozzie for making this thread and making me go on a rant again.

 It's fine to try new things, but when you stray away from the formula which was successful in generating a fan base and a profitable income.

Well that's just stupid.

Again this was purely to repeat everything I have said in the years of production of DD2 and how it evolved into what we have now.

It will be ignored now as it was ignored then.

Trendy have there road map after all which they are sticking to blindly and foolishly. All we can do is hope that some of the changes they plan for the game reminisce something of the fun of the original.

I mean I will always appreciate you guys for the Magic which is DD1, but get a clue why your numbers are dropping and unfortunately constructive criticsm even when it's mostly negative just has to be said.

Maybe, just maybe it will be enough to turn this game into something we always believed it could be.

I frigging love your post.

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This thread has been attracting attention that has not been constructive and lead to a lot of posts that break forum rules (specifically very derogatory terms, rants, and posters attacking one another). As a result, we are locking this thread.

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