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Fozzie

Dungeon Defenders 2 is failing

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I forgot as for the "cant wait to talk to you about our next update Bull**** speech" i Would answer trendy "i cant wait to see features  in the game that should have been in it before his release.".  If the developpement of the game went well you should have double up your base player number from dd1.  Sry for the Bad english.

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@Lawlta quote:

The patch this past week was not an update, just a patch that introduced a new feature.

Our very big update coming out this Summer is going to check some of your boxes listed above. We are going to be getting info over time leading up to it. Alongside this is some greater foundational changes that allows us to make additional rewards in the future more meaningful. There's a lot coming, and we're really excited to share! :)

Hopefully this will be something good!

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@Fozzie quote:

You had this with incursions then you nuked yourself with the stupidity that is the Wayfarer. In the NM4 Inc days we used to run and run the maps over and over until we got the stats we wanted.

I actually like how the wayfarer worked during NM4 as you got to farm souls like hell to get those weapons.

But, yeah, current wayfarer system is just not cutting it. Though I still wish that the Terarria weapons would still be at the wayfarer and you still have to farm dawn of the blood moon for the souls (they better return). Would be really nice to play that at C7. (Or better, NM7)

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@BeerGoggles quote:

Probably about the same # as 6 months ago. Just guessing though, since I have nothing else to go on. But you're guessing it's higher for some reason. Know something I don't?


@Chappyy quote:

And how many of those numbers are just people doing dailies and logging off? That alone counts you as played on that day. I can't imagine that people that log in for dailies is the profit generating target group a company goes for.


It doesn't matter if it is higher the same or lower then what I think. The point is that people that log in only to do dailies don't like the game enough to play but still want to get quick DMs in case a change or hero comes out that they might like. Basicly waiting for the right fixes to get in the game. And my point was is that how you want your player base to be? 

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Ok, I agree they should improve the game. They are actively trying to do that. 

Technically the playerbase has been stable for the last 6 months. Which is why I said this post is just being melodramatic. 

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looking at pc numbers only is where your issue is. This game has been f2p on pc for much longer then console, console numbers are actually fairly high from just a player perspective, public lobbies are always full, usually multiple public lobby sessions at the same time.

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The entire scope of this post, which is entirely perspective-based is, "hey I am experiencing issues, here they are and here's my opinion on improvement." People are saying that it is failing because they don't want it to. Step aside from your pride and tell the truth. Do we need to use citations? The numbers are fluctuating. As of now, overall, they are on a slow decline. This does not mean that the game is failing. I think that in saying that you are directly attacking the efforts if the development team, whose patterns I am not happy with. Many things were done out of time and out of order.

Trendy, DD2 should not have been released with so many glitches. Each update and patch should be thoroughly tested ON EACH PLATFORM before being released. I feel like updates/patches are implemented without thorough testing. Players are used as testers which is inadequate. This is neither Alpha nor Beta. 

That said, this, in my opinion, is the best Tower Defense ever released. I have had a tremendous amount of fun and have enjoyed the time I've spent. Long ago, something should have been in place that compensates players for their lost time due to many, many kicks and glitches. Because of the lack of forsight a tremendous amount of players have been taken advantage of/disrespected.

"Hey I lost over 200 hours because of getting kicked." "Well try to get that fixed." Thorough testing would have helped in many cases.

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This has been said in many different ways. There needs to be more transparency and Trendy needs to be more forthcoming with the information.  When people are left uninformed and completely in the dark they tend to form their own theories based only on the information that they can find for themselves. In this case the bad vibes from the player base are feeding off each other.  This doesn't mean that the theories are wrong but they could be avoided if you keep your base informed. We wouldn't have to sit here and speculate on what you will or will not do next. 

As long as Trendy continues their secretive builds the boards will always be like this. Because people will keep coming to the boards looking for info and not getting it and then get pissed off that there is no info. 


I mean come on already it's not like Trendy has some corner market game that everyone is trying to steal and copy. I just don't understand the need for secret road map.

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@Chappyy quote:

This has been said in many different ways. There needs to be more transparency and Trendy needs to be more forthcoming with the information.  When people are left uninformed and completely in the dark they tend to form their own theories based only on the information that they can find for themselves. In this case the bad vibes from the player base are feeding off each other.  This doesn't mean that the theories are wrong but they could be avoided if you keep your base informed. We wouldn't have to sit here and speculate on what you will or will not do next. 

As long as Trendy continues their secretive builds the boards will always be like this. Because people will keep coming to the boards looking for info and not getting it and then get pissed off that there is no info. 

I mean come on already it's not like Trendy has some corner market game that everyone is trying to steal and copy. I just don't understand the need for secret road map.

This was addressed in this post (and other places that I just don't have readily available to link to at the moment). If within two weeks of that post, we have not said anything, feel free to release the hounds. Until then, I just ask that you be patient. :)


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@Chappyy quote:

I just don't understand the need for secret road map.

My guess would be is that they do not want to get locked into a "promise" made on some posting. I would imagine the best laid plans get changed many times over before it gets released, especially as testing shows any limitations to what was wanted versus what is actually realistically capable of being done. It is the same with any product announcement or in the retail world - you only want to speak on what you can absolutely deliver. In today's age, every word you say will be used against you. 

That being said - i totally agree with you though. The whole time i have been a part of DD2, i have thought and said that a roadmap for the next 3-6 months (at a min) would be an incredibly good idea for TE to do. When you have an end-game setup like DD2 has - which has no end and no point, there must be something it is intended to be used for. Endless power....for what reason. I can see both AP and Onslaught as an ends to some mean, but what the "mean" is is so far unknown. Things like that do not keep people around. I will grind towards a goal, but grinding just to grind...that is a hard sell. Cosmetics are not really a major selling point for me, so i need something more than flair to put hundreds of hours more into a game. 

Personally i still have things left to buy with DMs, exclusive pets mostly. Once that is done, i will hit a major dead end, and i will be looking for a reason to stay. I really REALLY hope there is one by then. I have a ton of games i am not playing or getting trophies for in favor of playing DD2, so it needs to stay relevant on any level for me to justify that. The fun factor would be enough, but i don't find the chaos enemies all that fun, and Onslaught is just a constant exercise is what you cannot do...which i find more frustrating than fun. AP eliminating all gear and pet progress is enough to completely turn me away from doing that, as collecting is a big part of why i like the DD franchise. And Mastery seems to require so many resources in shards, extra heroes, and is incredibly hard to do solo - so that has not really got my attention as much as it has got my frustration thus far. 

I really think a roadmap beyond only a couple weeks is very sorely needed. Even a very macro one that does not explain how they will get there or have much details, but something like: "we are planning 5 DLC waves, with a boss on each, and new weapons and pets for each hero. AP will be fully reworked soon, and several new modes will be added that will increase ways to play the game for both new players and end game players". Now that is not real, but that is at least the kind of thing that would let know, at least in the above example, to not spend the next 100 hours on AP grinding if they are about to rework it, or vice versa if it was becoming even more important. For instance - why do we need the Sky bank? I have plenty of bags, and could have simply added a few more (if room was the only issue), and with the AP process wiping out all inventory, not to mention how quickly gear caps out in Onslaught (and the fact that pets are not useful currently) - why does adding more ways to store gear take top priority in the game right now? My only guess is that is helps a lot more with what is to come, as to what is right now. But the fact i am guessing why it is important - that right there is the big miss to me. I am willing to accept a whole lot on faith, but some direction on how the pieces fit into the bigger picture is a must in the long run. 

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"I will grind towards a goal, but grinding just to grind." - Jaws_420

Very well put.

"we are planning 5 DLC waves, with a boss on each, and new weapons and pets for each hero. AP will be fully reworked soon, and several new modes will be added that will increase ways to play the game for both new players and end game players".  - Jaws_420

The 420 is bringing out good stuff. Trendy needs to give you the green light for your suggestions. If they even used an 8th of what you posted then I'm certain that the players' community would keep Trendy in high regards.

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I keep seeing a lot of new things popping up in our development build of the game, and all of it has the name “Proteus” attached to it.  I’m not quite sure what that means, but these new things LOOK amazing. There was even this new “magical property” thing that I found when messing around on my Barbarian that made me gain additional damage buffs each time I switched stances.  When I first looted it, one of our QA members told me I could do this new thing with it. It was this weird word too… I think it’s pronounced “Trah-Deah-Bluh,” but I’m not sure. I could be saying that wrong.


There was also another spaceship parked in the Heroes Marketplace, although I’m not quite sure what that’s about.  Everything seems so different. A bunch of game modes are different now too. Curiouser and curiouser...

@ArchaicLotus quote:

"I will grind towards a goal, but grinding just to grind." - Jaws_420

Very well put.

"we are planning 5 DLC waves, with a boss on each, and new weapons and pets for each hero. AP will be fully reworked soon, and several new modes will be added that will increase ways to play the game for both new players and end game players".  - Jaws_420

The 420 is bringing out good stuff. Trendy needs to give you the green light for your suggestions. If they even used an 8th of what you posted then I'm certain that the players' community would keep Trendy in high regards.


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@Lawlta quote:
@Chappyy quote:

This has been said in many different ways. There needs to be more transparency and Trendy needs to be more forthcoming with the information.  When people are left uninformed and completely in the dark they tend to form their own theories based only on the information that they can find for themselves. In this case the bad vibes from the player base are feeding off each other.  This doesn't mean that the theories are wrong but they could be avoided if you keep your base informed. We wouldn't have to sit here and speculate on what you will or will not do next. 

As long as Trendy continues their secretive builds the boards will always be like this. Because people will keep coming to the boards looking for info and not getting it and then get pissed off that there is no info. 

I mean come on already it's not like Trendy has some corner market game that everyone is trying to steal and copy. I just don't understand the need for secret road map.

This was addressed in this post (and other places that I just don't have readily available to link to at the moment). If within two weeks of that post, we have not said anything, feel free to release the hounds. Until then, I just ask that you be patient. :)


Yes but the problem I have is the two weeks part. To me it just sounds like typical Trendy were you are going to wait till the last minute and drop a teaser on us.


See I just can't get figured out why you can't come out right now and "say these are the things we are currently working on and hopefully in two weeks we will be able to update you on where we are." It can't be that bad to let us know what you are working on. But it's like Trendy doesn't want to announce anything until done.

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You know there lots of indy studios that use a trello and make it public in order to keep people informed of progress.

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@Chappyy quote:

Yes but the problem I have is the two weeks part. To me it just sounds like typical Trendy were you are going to wait till the last minute and drop a teaser on us.

We're posting info within two weeks of that post (within meaning it could be between now and 10 days), the update is definitely not coming out anytime soon after that. I'd be hard-pressed to call that "last minute".

See I just can't get figured out why you can't come out right now and "say these are the things we are currently working on and hopefully in two weeks we will be able to update you on where we are." It can't be that bad to let us know what you are working on. But it's like Trendy doesn't want to announce anything until done.

It's something I've specifically talked about multiple times on here, Discord, and the Friday Fun stream since Elandrian talked about it in our Barbarian DevLog.  To reiterate:

"We’re looking at ways to store items, ways to create and customize existing items, ways to exchange items, and ways to enhance items. Did I mention that we’re heavily looking into making items more interesting? We have some features that we’re planning, but we’ll reveal more specifics about them at a later date."

Those are the things we are working on. The later date starts within the next 10 days of this post. That's all the info we're discussing at the current moment.

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I read amazing stuff here from players like :

"roadmap...tell us more about what's going to come... talk more to us...give us moree info about what youre working on..."  


All that kind of bull**** that kept trendy geting ***s done instead they have to talk with people that needs friends/psy.

I don't need trendy to to hold my hand all i ever wanted is a game with no major bug/hacks with the fun i had before.

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So... you're saying you've told us several times what you're working on. 


F***, Why am I so mad?! Guess it's time to take off these salt colored glasses.

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@BeerGoggles quote:

F***, Why am I so mad?! Guess it's time to take off these salt colored glasses.

I think there might be a virus going around and its pretty contagious :P Glad I wash my hands regularly xD

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I was just joking. But I do think the next character should be the Pillar of Salt. 

I've only thought up a few abilities, so I'm still brainstorming. 

1: Whenever they fail a map: "What did Trendy do wrong??!!!?"

2: Turd glasses: Everything looks S***ty


Just cause I like irony, I think it'd be funny if towers were fun/bubbly but OP. 

Like ballista but shoots flowers. Or Flamethrower that shoots bubbles.


Thematically, maybe the abilities should suck, but the towers are good. So it'd be the opposite of gunwitch/barb 



@Exglint quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

F***, Why am I so mad?! Guess it's time to take off these salt colored glasses.

I think there might be a virus going around and its pretty contagious :P Glad I wash my hands regularly xD


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It sounds all nice and everything but I would simply say ... go back to Fozzie's original post... Why isn't any of that being worked on?  I hate to take this thread another direction... we're not just saying be transparent... but it's time for a change of priorities to go from Trendy's Priorities to the Players Priorities.  Why is this always missed by Trendy in DD2?  I hate to say this but making items more interesting is not what we want.  We want longevity.  We want meaningful reasons to ascend.  We want to play any map, on any difficulty, at any time.  This all sounds very silly to type out as "want want want" but these and several other requests are not just from when Fozzie made this post, not from three months ago, six months ago, nor two years ago, but more than two years ago.  Why is Trendy missing this point so terribly?

Please understand, I am not frustrated and don't want to cause Lawlta or any of Trendy to stop responding.  The transparency is needed above and beyond.  A lot of Indie titles do what triple A titles do - they communicate.  They throw up a PTR that is constantly being wiped and rebuilt that has the latest patch so you can actually provide quality patching, fixes, and content.

Please... continue to be transparent.  Please, continue talking with us as you always have.  Please tell us more information, a lot more as you're saying you will.  Not a teaser, not #hypetrain, but real substance.  But to know what Trendy is currently working on for the future, well, I can't lie... it's disheartening.  Because everyone in or out of this thread is here for a reason, for love of the game *excuse the saying*.  At what point will Trendy stop riding a dwindling band wagon of supporters and get to a point where investors aren't all that necessary and your shop is growing because you found the balance between your and our priorities.  Every popular game does this.  Sometimes they have to hit the breaks and everyone feels it.  The investors, you, the Trendy team, the players - dedicated and casual.  But it's an ok break because it's the turning of the ship to create a culture that embraces both priorities.

I am not ripping on you or saying that it isn't possible.  I am saying you have all of us here, backing you, to do it.  Not just verbally, that is more than apparent.  It goes with the love of what you have made and the love of seeing it continue.  Not just from full release to now, but even from the years of alpha to now.  We're here to be a part of this ship.  We can't wait to experience it.

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Kambien you have a lot of good points. And don't worry about the "want" of it all. Video games are all about want, and never about need: Never; regardless of what a person "feels."

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You're using "we" in a weird way. I've seen several posts about making items more interesting. 

The playerbase is amorphous, "we" definitely don't agree on priorities or directions for game development. 

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