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@uzar quote:

so casual intermediate is like 2 hours a week? , just trying to understand the "little time" as i think 5 hours a week is little. I think in the year i have played this game , and 2 months off last year while on vacation and various family events i think the longest sitting was a few weeks ago and that like 6 hours i think as the family was out all day.

Well to me (as there is no one definition here), causal means you have less than 1 hour at a time to play normally, and if you can play more than once a week - that was a good week. 

Obviously there will be massive amounts of variance to each person, but i think that would be a good starting point. 

I play like 3 hours every night, so i am not casual, but i am only a intermediate player, not advanced. 

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@uzar quote:

You said casual player , i play 3 to 5 hours maybe a week and floor 115. You don't get much more casual then that.

Add a hard limit of around 60 minutes of gaming a day, even in one session is a stretch for many, and that's probably a good definition of casual.

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it gets more casual. [[177697,users]]. i can never do a 3 map floor in one hour.  and it is not the time per week that is importnant. it is  importnant how much time you have for one sitting. 

most evenings i don´t have one hour.

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ur a really lucky man uzar with no disconnects. i cannot understand people like u crying for NO save option. There is no disadvantage for u with a save option, but helps people with crashes and not the amount of time than u. tztztz

today bluescreen [[98831,users]] after reaching floor 71 map 3 of 3. I ve sent an report, like every time, and this happend to me a lot the last weeks. i have written that in ps4 section some time ago, like others.


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So I think this gets at why this is a controversial issue. Why should someone who has no (or little) time to play and doesn't understand the system have access to the endgame? If you don't have the 6 hours "required" to beat floor 57, maybe just play faster? There is only 7 minutes of combat per map, and you can build in 3. What are the other 20+ minutes per map? and why should you build the game around that? 


Also, the crashes are another matter. But they should be fixed regardless of changes to onslaught. 

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Have you written what you where doing previous , retry? rerolls? how many floors in a row. I posted a lot about disconnects also in the past when you couldn't do 2 maps in a row. But we got really detailed and tried various methods to help identify the issue. One issue we identified back then was not going to tavern after a floor completion and it blue screened on next map button. Just posting got disconnected or blue screened doesn't help identify where the issue may be.

We have been posting a possible disconnect issue on 3rd map if we did a retry rather then a reroll on 2nd map and it would blue screen on 3rd map. We stopped retry and had no issues since. We still go back to tavern after every floor completion also.

If you have that's great , that's what they need, most people just post fix the disconnects with zero information


@ColobelSpike82 quote:

ur a really lucky man uzar with no disconnects. i cannot understand people like u crying for NO save option. There is no disadvantage for u with a save option, but helps people with crashes and not the amount of time than u. tztztz

today bluescreen ps4 after reaching floor 71 map 3 of 3. I ve sent an report, like every time, and this happend to me a lot the last weeks. i have written that in ps4 section some time ago, like others.



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@BeerGoggles quote:

So I think this gets at why this is a controversial issue. Why should someone who has no (or little) time to play and doesn't understand the system have access to the endgame? If you don't have the 6 hours "required" to beat floor 57, maybe just play faster? There is only 7 minutes of combat per map, and you can build in 3. What are the other 20+ minutes per map? and why should you build the game around that? 


Also, the crashes are another matter. But they should be fixed regardless of changes to onslaught. 

This is one of the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time. I don't even have a desire to type all the reasons this makes no sense. Not only from a business standpoint but from just a general principle point of view.

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Ok, name 1 game that has an endgame designed for noobs. How do other ARPGs tell you "you're not ready to do the endgame"? How about tower defense genre?

@Chappyy quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

So I think this gets at why this is a controversial issue. Why should someone who has no (or little) time to play and doesn't understand the system have access to the endgame? If you don't have the 6 hours "required" to beat floor 57, maybe just play faster? There is only 7 minutes of combat per map, and you can build in 3. What are the other 20+ minutes per map? and why should you build the game around that? 


Also, the crashes are another matter. But they should be fixed regardless of changes to onslaught. 

This is one of the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time. I don't even have a desire to type all the reasons this makes no sense. Not only from a business standpoint but from just a general principle point of view.


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@BeerGoggles quote:

Ok, name 1 game that has an endgame designed for noobs. How do other ARPGs tell you "you're not ready to do the endgame"? How about tower defense genre?

@Chappyy quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

So I think this gets at why this is a controversial issue. Why should someone who has no (or little) time to play and doesn't understand the system have access to the endgame? If you don't have the 6 hours "required" to beat floor 57, maybe just play faster? There is only 7 minutes of combat per map, and you can build in 3. What are the other 20+ minutes per map? and why should you build the game around that? 


Also, the crashes are another matter. But they should be fixed regardless of changes to onslaught. 

This is one of the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time. I don't even have a desire to type all the reasons this makes no sense. Not only from a business standpoint but from just a general principle point of view.


We are not talking about noobs. Your statement was clear. If you can't play x hours you don't deserve to play. It has nothing to do with skill. 

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.75 hours for pushing. Maybe if you only got 15 minutes you should do your daily missions or a mastery level


YOu can't do raids in wow if you got 30 minutes to play. You probably can't push high floors in diablo 3 in <30 minutes. How many high level maps are you gonna do on PoE in <30?


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@BeerGoggles quote:

.75 hours for pushing. Maybe if you only got 15 minutes you should do your daily missions or a mastery level


YOu can't do raids in wow if you got 30 minutes to play. You probably can't push high floors in diablo 3 in <30 minutes. How many high level maps are you gonna do on PoE in <30?


But I can play an entire game on Rocket League or 100% Ben Hur in that time however I couldn't finish a game of Battlefield or Civ in that time. 

I still don't see why checkpoints would be a bad thing, there's no advantage to running floor 65 or 65,000 the drops are the same and you're better off playing trials anyway. If someone has the ability to push the floors even if it takes them 3 sessions over the course of the week/month what ever they play so be it, it doesn't affect anyone else.

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@AFreakinCabbag3 quote:

But I can play an entire game on Rocket League or 100% Ben Hur in that time however I couldn't finish a game of Battlefield or Civ in that time. 

I still don't see why checkpoints would be a bad thing, there's no advantage to running floor 65 or 65,000 the drops are the same and you're better off playing trials anyway. If someone has the ability to push the floors even if it takes them 3 sessions over the course of the week/month what ever they play so be it, it doesn't affect anyone else.

well said. 

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Wait, What? No reason to go past 65? You mean i wasted all my advanced casual 5 hours a week for nothing?  Getting new Flair at 92 and 114 and increasing my Min ascension was just a waste of time. 

I wish someone told me earlier...oh and if not worth it then why need a save option?


:) 

@Jaws_420 quote:


@AFreakinCabbag3 quote:

But I can play an entire game on Rocket League or 100% Ben Hur in that time however I couldn't finish a game of Battlefield or Civ in that time. 

I still don't see why checkpoints would be a bad thing, there's no advantage to running floor 65 or 65,000 the drops are the same and you're better off playing trials anyway. If someone has the ability to push the floors even if it takes them 3 sessions over the course of the week/month what ever they play so be it, it doesn't affect anyone else.

well said. 


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@uzar quote:

Wait, What? No reason to go past 65? You mean i wasted all my advanced casual 5 hours a week for nothing?  Getting new Flair at 92 and 114 and increasing my Min ascension was just a waste of time. 

I wish someone told me earlier...oh and if not worth it then why need a save option?


:) 

Sounds like you are just trolling at this point 

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I was pointing out why this issue is controversial in the community. Personally, I'm mildly against check points because I dont think they are necessary. And that amount of dev work would be better spent elsewhere. However, I can't feel that strongly about it. 


It seems like most people that are strongly for it, feel that way because partially they aren't able to do the maps in the "expected" amount of time. 

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A floor save would make the mode more accessible. I get that.  But it won't "fix" the lack of game knowledge.  There is a learning curve in onslaught...the ones that can do a floor an hour have learned that curve and the game.  But there's plenty of people on floor 55 that STILL don't know how some lower chaos enemies work, even if their descriptions are in-game.  So what is going to happen is, they will try and fail and try and fail until RNG takes pity on them and they succeed on their one map and progress. Hopefully they learn from their fails, but that isn't always the case.  

Just saying.  I'm all for a mid-floor save or 1-map-per-floor. But as an "advanced casual" I see how its going to artificially boost people to higher floors, which will cheapen the achievements of high skill players.  And people will call for nerfs for enemies and mutator combos they don't understand how to counter, when really they shouldn't be on a floor scaled that high.  

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No, trolling would be saying there is no reason to go past 65.... That is either trolling or not understanding at all.

One of the major issue with onslaught is people can access it right away. They pass all the knowledge of the game of understanding how mobs work and what works against them via the C1 to c7 progression , they are not doing Incursions to understand those Mobs. They don't or try to do mastery and understand how ALL the defense work for the heroes they currently have. So they hop right into onslaught and think they can just hit 114 in a day and call it done and not understanding the Ap system and min ascension and talent caps.

But that's just me and i will continue to play and enjoy the game no matter what.

@Jaws_420 quote:


@uzar quote:

Wait, What? No reason to go past 65? You mean i wasted all my advanced casual 5 hours a week for nothing?  Getting new Flair at 92 and 114 and increasing my Min ascension was just a waste of time. 

I wish someone told me earlier...oh and if not worth it then why need a save option?


:) 

Sounds like you are just trolling at this point 


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@BeerGoggles quote:

.75 hours for pushing. Maybe if you only got 15 minutes you should do your daily missions or a mastery level


YOu can't do raids in wow if you got 30 minutes to play. You probably can't push high floors in diablo 3 in <30 minutes. How many high level maps are you gonna do on PoE in <30?


raids in wow are completely optional and a player can make it to the exact same point with or without raiding. Currently I can't make it past floor 15 only because I don't have time to beat 3 floors in a row.

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And to point , floor 15 is just C5 level i think. So you don't have to do floor 15 ( Completely Optional ) you can do c4 and c5 and round out your hero gear so you can progress higher in Onslaught.. At floor 15 you don't even have enough shards for the 4 starting heroes to be effective 

@Chappyy quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

.75 hours for pushing. Maybe if you only got 15 minutes you should do your daily missions or a mastery level


YOu can't do raids in wow if you got 30 minutes to play. You probably can't push high floors in diablo 3 in <30 minutes. How many high level maps are you gonna do on PoE in <30?


raids in wow are completely optional and a player can make it to the exact same point with or without raiding. Currently I can't make it past floor 15 only because I don't have time to beat 3 floors in a row.


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and to what point? If someone doesn't have time to do 3 floors at a low floor what makes you think they can find more time to do it at a higher floor? The whole point of onslaught is to reach AP and chaos isn't getting done. Not to mention chaos is horrible. The only reason I came back was to try onslaught, which I enjoyed a lot right up until I hit a three map floor and couldn't play anymore.

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Because with proper gear floor 15 is 20 mins max.Proper gear and understanding removes the time constraint. Mobs at floor 15 have 7 mil Hps , Floor 115 they have 120 mil  proper gear and understanding is everything to remove the time.

@Chappyy quote:

and to what point? If someone doesn't have time to do 3 floors at a low floor what makes you think they can find more time to do it at a higher floor?


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I mean that's interesting feedback about the early game onslaught. You should just do  the c5. then go back to onslaught 16. TBH, you got a long way to go before you think about hitting that AP. At least 4-5 Power xfer, around there for deadly strikes. +4 additional heroes. at least 2 mastery shards

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How did this discussion turn into "ppl who want mid floor saves are noobs and bad players"?

Even good players have limits on the amount of time they can play.  I think I'm about 500 hours on this, and over 2000 hours on the previous DD games, but it's from mostly short gaming sessions. 

This game, like most others, allows you to play in short sessions.  It's no mistake that the number of waves and map complexity has been tuned since the start of the game for short games.  Other games with save points and autosaves typically save progress about every 20-40 minutes too.  

I think at the end of the day that Trendy made a mistake when they time-gated progress in Onslaught. They've already had to walk back from the original design intent and add reroll and replay, this is just another step towards normalising the onslaught game mode with the rest of the game.


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The main problem is that the DD2 playerbase is limited.  Whatever you label someone as, new players need to be retained and easily transition from campaign into the other options available.  That still isn't presented in a clear, useful way to anyone who hasn't played the game for some time.

Map saving could help and could give more access to Onslaught, but there are far bigger issues.  I do agree that the game can't cater to the top tier of players though, since there aren't enough of them to keep the game alive in the long run.

There also needs to be some incentive to playing as a group, aside from it being "easier."  That isn't enough for most people, myself included.  Especially when host options aren't included and you can easily have hours wasted because a duo joins and kicks you from your own game.  Social aspects of many games are what keep people playing.

It could even be beneficial to have people be rewarded for "coaching" or helping new players with the game if they need it.  A start would be enabling some sort of reward for replaying lower onslaught levels, even if it isn't defender packs, in order to help friends and others catch up.  An alternative would be to allow players to play higher floors, but still require a certain number of maps to be cleared to count up to 65 before resetting.  Such as playing Floor 61 and 62 with someone to move through Floor 1-3 (same map total).

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