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BeerGoggles

BerryJelly, Tell us about your Onslaught 250 run

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@BeerGoggles quote:

HOw long did it take 65-250? 

Think you could have kept going?

Why'd you reset, thats crazy?


Got any tricks or tips?

GZ!!

Well first of all, thank you :)

Didn't expect a thread for this haha, but I'll share some of my experiences with onslaught. Previously I've done resets with around floor 80-100, and a few min resets. Because of how little benefit ancient power gives currently, it was mainly for raising the talent cap. At the time of hitting floor 250, I had 319 talent caps.  Can 200+ be done without resets? Absolutely. Huge congrats to ArchaicLotus :)

As to how long it took, the exp farm to 1k ascension took me about a month, while I was studying for my exams. Thats about 6x c7 per hour speedrunning a couple hours a day. After my exams, I spent just under 3 weeks in onslaught. Lower floors take 40mins and scales up to 1h on the very highest due to the mobs dying slower and the extra care needed to make sure the floor goes smoothly. A common question is, does it get lonely playing solo? Yup. I'm still human haha. On the lower floors I'd play splitscreen so I can watch videos/movies while keeping the occasional eye on the situation. However, on the higher 100s, I had to pay more attention in fullscreen because I would see the cracks in my build starting to show up. I'd have some music turned on always. Talking to friends on steam and sharing experiences is always a great way to break up the monotony :)

So you can already tell, the talent caps needed to reach 926k T1 bees is a very long term grind, but in effect only gives about 20% more dps than a player with max c7 gear without resets. I have learnt much along the way doing resets with underpowered gear and learning from other players while figuring out most of the stuff as I go. What I have learnt is that DPS is never the issue. Learning how to counter the mobs and placement of towers is far more important. Everytime I hit a wall, I'd sell the tower and place it somewhere else or try a different strategy. I was constantly tweaking my build even up to floor 250. Another wall was assassins. Getting close to floor 200, it would be very tough to survive some assassins with bad mutators. To combat this, I carry a pet with sparkle party to stun them, dps hero specced with hp and I had to take out the power gambit shard just to survive. I believe that if built right, hero dps shouldn't be required. However, it would still come in handy just in case a lane fails.

Obelisks are very useful for drawing aggro in order to protect your precious towers that are under a flyer lane.

Occasionally, I would reroll a map once. Twice if I'm unlucky. 3 rerolls was used one time. Haven't got to the point of rerolling till failure.

Could 300 have been possible? Yes. Maybe someone out there is on their way, but I'm quite tired of onslaught for now. Took a peek at floor 251 and 2 yetis spawned at the same time on the same lane. It's a sign to throw in the towel XD. Furthermore, theres many issues like crashes and DCs, skeles spawning on cores, stuff going offlane, controlled burn flyers going offlane, bees bugging out, mobs getting stuck in spawn. Determination wears thin after losing so many floors out of your control. Like Beer's great suggestion, the ability to continue on our highest floor should be an option after resetting. On that topic, I've reset to try out the new progression system and see what it's like doing it with 600 min asc. It's been pretty smooth so far and I'm loving it :) Eagerly waiting for ancient power changes!

I have recorded my floors from 200 and every 10 floors following that. Check them out, maybe you might learn something, maybe not :P At the very least, it is entertaining to catch a glimpse into what extremes are out there. 250m ogres, 100m siege, 50mil assassins, --2mil-- Timmies!



Sorry for the long post, heres a potato. 

smiling+potato.jpg

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@Uchihia quote:

berryjelly mind me asking how many floors you pushed in one day on average ?

Sure. Lower floors were quick so I did 10-12 a day. On the upper floors, I did 5-8 a day. (I take alot of breaks haha. Longer breaks for dcing on map 3!) I rarely do more than 3 floors in a row. Also, I tried to mix it up with some c7s for exp in between floors for variety.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@BerryJelly quote:

Occasionally, I would reroll a map once. Twice if I'm unlucky. 3 rerolls was used one time. Haven't got to the point of rerolling till failure.

Man, I did suffer that at floor 113, it was painful!

Oh yeah. On my first playthrough, 114 took me 5 tries, this was before the rerolls were introduced. Hardest part of the floor was trying not to press esc->leave game.

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@BerryJelly quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

HOw long did it take 65-250? 

Think you could have kept going?

Why'd you reset, thats crazy?


Got any tricks or tips?

GZ!!

Well first of all, thank you :)

Didn't expect a thread for this haha, but I'll share some of my experiences with onslaught. Previously I've done resets with around floor 80-100, and a few min resets. Because of how little benefit ancient power gives currently, it was mainly for raising the talent cap. At the time of hitting floor 250, I had 319 talent caps.  Can 200+ be done without resets? Absolutely. Huge congrats to ArchaicLotus :)

As to how long it took, the exp farm to 1k ascension took me about a month, while I was studying for my exams. Thats about 6x c7 per hour speedrunning a couple hours a day. After my exams, I spent just under 3 weeks in onslaught. Lower floors take 40mins and scales up to 1h on the very highest due to the mobs dying slower and the extra care needed to make sure the floor goes smoothly. A common question is, does it get lonely playing solo? Yup. I'm still human haha. On the lower floors I'd play splitscreen so I can watch videos/movies while keeping the occasional eye on the situation. However, on the higher 100s, I had to pay more attention in fullscreen because I would see the cracks in my build starting to show up. I'd have some music turned on always. Talking to friends on steam and sharing experiences is always a great way to break up the monotony :)

So you can already tell, the talent caps needed to reach 926k T1 bees is a very long term grind, but in effect only gives about 20% more dps than a player with max c7 gear without resets. I have learnt much along the way doing resets with underpowered gear and learning from other players while figuring out most of the stuff as I go. What I have learnt is that DPS is never the issue. Learning how to counter the mobs and placement of towers is far more important. Everytime I hit a wall, I'd sell the tower and place it somewhere else or try a different strategy. I was constantly tweaking my build even up to floor 250. Another wall was assassins. Getting close to floor 200, it would be very tough to survive some assassins with bad mutators. To combat this, I carry a pet with sparkle party to stun them, dps hero specced with hp and I had to take out the power gambit shard just to survive. I believe that if built right, hero dps shouldn't be required. However, it would still come in handy just in case a lane fails.

Obelisks are very useful for drawing aggro in order to protect your precious towers that are under a flyer lane.

Occasionally, I would reroll a map once. Twice if I'm unlucky. 3 rerolls was used one time. Haven't got to the point of rerolling till failure.

Could 300 have been possible? Yes. Maybe someone out there is on their way, but I'm quite tired of onslaught for now. Took a peek at floor 251 and 2 yetis spawned at the same time on the same lane. It's a sign to throw in the towel XD. Furthermore, theres many issues like crashes and DCs, skeles spawning on cores, stuff going offlane, controlled burn flyers going offlane, bees bugging out, mobs getting stuck in spawn. Determination wears thin after losing so many floors out of your control. Like Beer's great suggestion, the ability to continue on our highest floor should be an option after resetting. On that topic, I've reset to try out the new progression system and see what it's like doing it with 600 min asc. It's been pretty smooth so far and I'm loving it :) Eagerly waiting for ancient power changes!

I have recorded my floors from 200 and every 10 floors following that. Check them out, maybe you might learn something, maybe not :P At the very least, it is entertaining to catch a glimpse into what extremes are out there. 250m ogres, 100m siege, 50mil assassins, --2mil-- Timmies!



Sorry for the long post, heres a potato. 

smiling+potato.jpg

First off thanks for the potato! secondly, holy moly top effort man. do you find having so many stats now that you can make fun builds or have you tried anything new that wouldnt work for most people? i got 5 levels untill i get +100 and 300 min and it looks so clean ima stop there haha


again awesome work and ty to op for making me see this :D

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@concrete_fish quote:

First off thanks for the potato! secondly, holy moly top effort man. do you find having so many stats now that you can make fun builds or have you tried anything new that wouldnt work for most people? i got 5 levels untill i get +100 and 300 min and it looks so clean ima stop there haha


again awesome work and ty to op for making me see this :D

Thank you :) It's only about 20% more dps so not much difference. But what I have tried is building c7 trials for 4 players with Dryad. Didn't need upgrades throughout the game, so just pressing G felt pretty good haha. Corruption form was needed though.

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@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote:

First off thanks for the potato! secondly, holy moly top effort man. do you find having so many stats now that you can make fun builds or have you tried anything new that wouldnt work for most people? i got 5 levels untill i get +100 and 300 min and it looks so clean ima stop there haha


again awesome work and ty to op for making me see this :D

Thank you :) It's only about 20% more dps so not much difference. But what I have tried is building c7 trials for 4 players with Dryad. Didn't need upgrades throughout the game, so just pressing G felt pretty good haha. Corruption form was needed though.

thats awesome! sadly i get bored of using dryad all the time but she is so good once you get a grasp of tower placement.

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@concrete_fish quote:


@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote:

First off thanks for the potato! secondly, holy moly top effort man. do you find having so many stats now that you can make fun builds or have you tried anything new that wouldnt work for most people? i got 5 levels untill i get +100 and 300 min and it looks so clean ima stop there haha


again awesome work and ty to op for making me see this :D

Thank you :) It's only about 20% more dps so not much difference. But what I have tried is building c7 trials for 4 players with Dryad. Didn't need upgrades throughout the game, so just pressing G felt pretty good haha. Corruption form was needed though.

thats awesome! sadly i get bored of using dryad all the time but she is so good once you get a grasp of tower placement.

Oh yea. All the more we should remove the need to play Dryad actively for corrupt form so we can play other characters!

One little thing to take note of with bees for those who may not know, is that when building them in between two lanes, it is better to separate them into two groups closer to their respective lane rather than just spamming everything in the middle.

While it seems like killing two birds with one stone, the bees will jump around both lanes and take up valuable time moving around and end up dealing less damage. Just like nimbuses, only faster :P

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This is what I found also , smaller groups spread around was more effective.

One little thing to take note of with bees for those who may not know, is that when building them in between two lanes, it is better to separate them into two groups closer to their respective lane rather than just spamming everything in the middle.

While it seems like killing two birds with one stone, the bees will jump around both lanes and take up valuable time moving around and end up dealing less damage. Just like nimbuses, only faster :P


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@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote:


@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote:

First off thanks for the potato! secondly, holy moly top effort man. do you find having so many stats now that you can make fun builds or have you tried anything new that wouldnt work for most people? i got 5 levels untill i get +100 and 300 min and it looks so clean ima stop there haha


again awesome work and ty to op for making me see this :D

Thank you :) It's only about 20% more dps so not much difference. But what I have tried is building c7 trials for 4 players with Dryad. Didn't need upgrades throughout the game, so just pressing G felt pretty good haha. Corruption form was needed though.

thats awesome! sadly i get bored of using dryad all the time but she is so good once you get a grasp of tower placement.

Oh yea. All the more we should remove the need to play Dryad actively for corrupt form so we can play other characters!

One little thing to take note of with bees for those who may not know, is that when building them in between two lanes, it is better to separate them into two groups closer to their respective lane rather than just spamming everything in the middle.

While it seems like killing two birds with one stone, the bees will jump around both lanes and take up valuable time moving around and end up dealing less damage. Just like nimbuses, only faster :P

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

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@concrete_fish quote: 

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

I find that placing the slime as per normal on the lane (but angling it so that if it gets emp-ed, the bees are not affected) works better than placing them offlane. This is with range gambit maxed. For frost lanes I use 1 slime, 3 bees and 2 rams. Give a backup slime and PDT for controlled burn lanes. 

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We also found a well placed fissure for frosty lanes works well in the combination.

@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote: 

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

I find that placing the slime as per normal on the lane (but angling it so that if it gets emp-ed, the bees are not affected) works better than placing them offlane. This is with range gambit maxed. For frost lanes I use 1 slime, 3 bees and 2 rams. Give a backup slime and PDT for controlled burn lanes. 


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@uzar quote:

We also found a well placed fissure for frosty lanes works well in the combination.

@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote: 

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

I find that placing the slime as per normal on the lane (but angling it so that if it gets emp-ed, the bees are not affected) works better than placing them offlane. This is with range gambit maxed. For frost lanes I use 1 slime, 3 bees and 2 rams. Give a backup slime and PDT for controlled burn lanes. 


Good to know! Does it get frozen if there are frost orcs around?

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It does but not for long as the bees\ramsters will kill them off and it destroys the little frosties leaving more time for the bees to work on the higher HP mobs.

@BerryJelly quote:


@BerryJelly quote:


@uzar quote:

We also found a well placed fissure for frosty lanes works well in the combination.

@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote: 

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

I find that placing the slime as per normal on the lane (but angling it so that if it gets emp-ed, the bees are not affected) works better than placing them offlane. This is with range gambit maxed. For frost lanes I use 1 slime, 3 bees and 2 rams. Give a backup slime and PDT for controlled burn lanes. 


Good to know! Does it get frozen if there are frost orcs around?


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@uzar quote:

It does but not for long as the bees\ramsters will kill them off and it destroys the little frosties leaving more time for the bees to work on the higher HP mobs.

@BerryJelly quote:


@BerryJelly quote:


@uzar quote:

We also found a well placed fissure for frosty lanes works well in the combination.

@BerryJelly quote:


@concrete_fish quote: 

do you have any tips for cyborg lanes and or cyfrost lanes

I find that placing the slime as per normal on the lane (but angling it so that if it gets emp-ed, the bees are not affected) works better than placing them offlane. This is with range gambit maxed. For frost lanes I use 1 slime, 3 bees and 2 rams. Give a backup slime and PDT for controlled burn lanes. 


Good to know! Does it get frozen if there are frost orcs around?


Thats cool. Finally a reason to dust off ye olde lavamancer and take it for a spin haha.

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With all of the Mastery shards you can go back and spank C7 trials. I use three fissures per lane and a volcano; Maw of the Earth walls.

The talent cap does add a lot of health to the walls, and 20% DPS is huge, Berry. The more dps you have the less time you have to spend considering a lane. That's why Destructive pylon, power pylon, and mass destruction are handy.

The talent cap boost is why the prestige is worth it. If you have people with same APs max'ed then that helps (the stack).

Placement is everything, yes. If you're good at placement AND get 20% DPS boost due to talent caps, that allows for less time mobs are on your walls.

There were many people that climbed as high as they could and decided to prestige for that extra power. Most saw that difficulty shift in the 120s and 130s. When they weren't able to duo, the solo grind shut them down. The strongest point in prestiging is the added talent cap boost. (tower damage). It's huge. 

We'll see what my cap is after the PS4 issues get fixed (within 2 weeks?), but that extra 20% DPS would give me a lot more floors than I could reach without prestiging. The entire prestige system is designed around the Talent Cap. Taking my walls from 39 power to 140 power added over 1.7 million health (maws with max'ed totem).

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@BerryJelly quote:

Oh yea. All the more we should remove the need to play Dryad actively for corrupt form so we can play other characters!


this is such a massive point, corruption bonus need to be added in normal  state or other defences need to match up. drayd in corruption is most probably the only way to go but i rather be a barb or adept dealing with lanes 

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No.  If you take away the need to be in corrupt form, for the Dryad, then the Dryad meta complaint becomes absolutely valid.  If you want the benefit of the Dryad, you have to stay alive/be in corrupt form/not drop starfall mana.  If you take away the requirement to be in corrupt form to receive the damage, then you just made the Dryad, who is considered to be better than the rest as a solo hero, head-and-shoulders above the rest and would likely see a nerf incomming.

The requirement to be in corrupt form aids in balance.  See this.  My ideal group is Dryad/Barbarian/Gunwitch/Adept.   I like the idea of flexibilty, but give me three other players that are great at their class and I'll build and stay in Corrupt form, if using a primarily Dryad build, no problem.  There has to be a drawback in getting the corrupt advantage. IF you're soloing and you die, you suffer a bit.  Getting the corrupt bonus while not having to be in corrupt form would make it way too easy.  The fact that you have to be in corrupt form may be one reason why she has not been nerfed already.

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