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Zurkov

Mega-Chicken attack speed bug

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Can we get some sort of fix for mega-chickens attacking at the same speed for 4 rate as 5 and 6 rate?

I've heard several different approaches for fixing it, but my personal recommendation would be to make chickens softcap at 4 rate, so as not to ruin existing chickens for those who already compensate for the bug, and prevent further players from wasting upgrades on a stat that does not improve.

EDIT: Plane corrections.

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It's the same at 4, 5, and 6.

Many players know this already and only upgrade their chickens to 4, so I don't want to penalize existing chickens by making it useful to upgrade them to 6.  We could probably make it so you can't upgrade them past 4, but in the past when I asked about this that idea seemed to bug some people.

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It'd make higher attack rate chickens a rarer item, so I hardly think that people who currently have 6 would have their feelings hurt by it. Can they naturally generate with 6 rate as-is?

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1/32768 chance of rolling with 6

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Shots per second is limited by the maximum animation speed on pets. 

How about this solution?

 ① Detect the max stat value before you hit animation speed cap.
 ② Prevent upgrading past this stat value (for any pet).
 ③ During item creation, if you roll past this value, cap to this value.

And leave existing chickens alone.

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I like that idea. The people who upgraded their chickens to 6 sps (myself included) only experience very minor dps loss. If chickens were changed to scale all the way to 6 sps, those who only upped to 4 sps would experience far more significant dps loss.

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To avoid any unintended consequences right now this fix is limited to mega chickens only.  I don't have an easy way to make a complete list of pets and weapons which hit animation cap before sps bonus cap, unfortunately.

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I think we should leave this as is for right now.  It is a larger change and requires more than time and discussion than 15hrs and 3 people.

This is literally the first I've ever heard of this and have never seen anyone running around with a >= 37k mega chicken with less than 6 sps.  Also, is it the range attack that is limited, the pecking, both?  I'd be surprised to find out that they are exactly the same.

Perhaps a better idea is to speed up the animations, then people who are basing their upgrading decisions based on this quick fix will be hosed.  People who don't bother putting in (or can't, if this goes into several iterations) 6 sps, wouldn't be very happy if a different solution goes into effect that allows 6 actual shots per second.

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@gunnerq69 quote:

It is a larger change and requires more than time and discussion than 15hrs and 3 people.

No, it's a very minor change.  But since it doesn't affect the game much, I don't mind if you want the fix taken back out.
@gunnerq69 quote:This is literally the first I've ever heard of this and have never seen anyone running around with a >= 37k mega chicken with less than 6 sps.  Also, is it the range attack that is limited, the pecking, both?  I'd be surprised to find out that they are exactly the same.

They are exactly the same and are capped at 4 sps, and I have seen other players running around with chickens below 6 sps.  Basically most players who know about it avoid wasting their 1 or 2 upgrades.

@gunnerq69 quote:Perhaps a better idea is to speed up the animations, then people who are basing their upgrading decisions based on this quick fix will be hosed.  People who don't bother putting in (or can't, if this goes into several iterations) 6 sps, wouldn't be very happy if a different solution goes into effect that allows 6 actual shots per second.

There is no reason to affect gameplay here, and I am very strongly against any change that would punish existing players who are upgrading their chickens to 4 or 5 sps, since they've been doing this for years.  No one is basing decisions on this 'quick fix', they made the decisions a long time ago when they noticed it was useless to upgrade to 6.

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[[51525,users]] quot:

This is literally the first I've ever heard of this and have never seen anyone running around with a >= 37k mega chicken with less than 6 sps

When you only play with a limited amount of people you usually avoid encountering people who do stuff differently.

You're basically saying here that :

  • Leave the bug as it is and have people who upgrade sps to 6, not knowing about the bug, lose damage.
  • Make it so people who knew about the bug miss out on their chickens having max shot speed.

That is very limiting and hurt people both ways.

Most people who enter the DDRnG chat or interact with the community and have been farming NM chickens don't upgrade their chickens past 4 sps. Limiting upgrading/spawn sps to 4 would let people who don't interact as much not lose out on the extra damage and wouldn't hurt people who avoided doing so because of the bug.

Limiting it would also make 5-6 sps chickens something kinda rare in a while, just like quietus with projectile speed, making them a collectible item. Making this would also imply that there would be no animation fix on the bug,  so no one would be losing out on actually having the 6 shots speed happen.


Also, if the fix was changing the animation, this would be a buff to mega chickens, which already are a way overused pet due to their damage, easiness to get an stats. The community wants more diversity as you can see by the buff everyone agrees on to make other pets easier to get, so this would go against that logic

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@Plane quote:


There is no reason to affect gameplay here, and I am very strongly against any change that would punish existing players who are upgrading their chickens to 4 or 5 sps, since they've been doing this for years. 

Fixing a bug that causes 99.9% of the playerbase to upgrade their items inefficiently, despite being the intended way of doing so is a problem because 10 or fewer people might get somewhat ruffled?


How about "no"? Can we please fix broken things that are fixable?


To clarify, I'm not asking for any buffs, I want the SPS to either be hard capped at 4, or 4 and 5 to have reduced SPS so that 6 is that actual maximum.

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@Caimen0 quote:

To clarify, I'm not asking for any buffs, I want the SPS to either be hard capped at 4

That would be fine, but gunner objected, so for now I took the fix out.


@Caimen0 quote:

or 4 and 5 to have reduced SPS so that 6 is that actual maximum.

That will never happen.  The community won't accept the CDT randomly making lots of their DPS pets useless. 

I can remember assuring people last year (last time this came up) that the CDT would never do something like that to them because I simply can't imagine a community consensus supporting that change.

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Let's try to keep this civil. 

To put this in perspective, this is a really small problem.  You lose at most 64 or 128 damage from a Mega Chicken if you upgrade it to 6 SPS, which doesn't make a noticeable difference in terms of gameplay.

Solution 1: Don't let players upgrade past 4 SPS.

  ・ Advantages: Players no longer miss out on up to 128 damage, so they don't get frustrated when they find out.
  ・ Disadvantages: I can't think of any (which is why I thought this would be an uncontroversial fix).

Solution 2: Make 4 and 5 SPS slower than they currently are.

  ・ Advantages: Players no longer miss out on up to 128 damage, so they don't get frustrated when they find out.
  ・ Disadvantages: Retroactively ruins lots of players' DPS pets that they've been using for months or years.

I can't see any reason why we would deliberately ruin people's pets over such a tiny problem.  It's not like 4 SPS chickens are something new no one's ever heard of.  The word spread about them a long time ago.  So I think the only options are solution 1, or do nothing.

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@Plane quote:


To put this in perspective, this is a really small problem.  You lose at most 64 or 128 damage from a Mega Chicken if you upgrade it to 6 SPS, which doesn't make a noticeable difference in terms of gameplay.

So correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly, but are you saying that this is a small problem, if the solution that you want is pushed instead of the other one? Because you yourself say that the other solution potentially 'ruins' pets?

That, to me, is textbook not a small problem if one of the proposed fixes makes some people so unhappy.

The problem with this discussion is that, either way, you're hurting a percentage of your players. I firmly feel like the answer should be the fix that affects the least amount of players, not which side complains the loudest. My perception is that it's a vocal minority that knew about the 4sps thing.

@Plane quote:

It's not like 4 SPS chickens are something new no one's ever heard of.  The word spread about them a long time ago.

I have to disagree with this quite vehemently. If this post or the conversations I've had since it was posted are any indication, then the players that know about the 4sps thing are vastly in the minority compared to those that followed what the game says is the best option (which, for DPS pets, is typically the max amount of SPS you can have). I had never heard of such a thing before this post was a thing, and most of those I've mentioned it to had no idea, either. The only chickens I've ever seen with 4sps are Plane's and Thales', and that was still only after this post came about. The only people I've seen say 'yes' to knowing about this are people with either 5k+ hours / are in the CDT / have written half a dozen guides on the game. I would argue that this information is very much privileged, as nowhere that I've ever read- pre-this-thread- ever said anything about the 4sps thing. A simple fix of changing the tooltip to say that >4sps is useless (or even putting that info on the (defunct, i know) wiki) would change that in a big hurry.

I really don't feel like players without privileged information should be punished, because the people with the privileged information don't want their 'edge' removed. That, to me, seems 100% like personal preference standing in the way of good game design. Not calling anyone out, just my two cents.

With that in mind:

@Plane quote:

Solution 2: Make 4 and 5 SPS slower than they currently are.

Out of the two options presented, this one is clearly the better choice for game design, in my opinion. And I think good game design should come in front of anyone's opinions. (But that's my opinion, so feel free to discuss that until the cows come home~)


If "the only options are solution 1, or do nothing", as you said, then my answer would be to do nothing. Or do nothing and change the tooltip. Then, at least, anyone who bothers to read will know the correct way to do it.

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Yep, we're doing nothing.

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@Plane quote:

Yep, we're doing nothing.

That seems a bit quick, lol.

Literally one person has replied to your post...

And I'm reasonably certain that in this whole thread, I'm the only one to say 'do nothing' (and that was only if '2' didn't win out). :x

Edit: ...and is changing the tooltip off the table, then? o.O

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I guess I need to address this:

@talantmajr quote:
@Plane quote:


To put this in perspective, this is a really small problem.  You lose at most 64 or 128 damage from a Mega Chicken if you upgrade it to 6 SPS, which doesn't make a noticeable difference in terms of gameplay.

So correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly, but are you saying that this is a small problem, if the solution that you want is pushed instead of the other one? Because you yourself say that the other solution potentially 'ruins' pets?

When I say it's a small problem, I'm talking about the status quo.  No one is negatively affected by this bug in any real way.  If you're missing 64 or 128 damage off your chicken, you won't actually notice a difference in gameplay.

It turns into a large problem as soon as we start talking about ruining people's existing items.  Let's not turn a small problem into a large one.



That seems a bit quick, lol.

Literally one person has replied to your post...

You're free to keep discussing it, and so is everyone else.  I already removed the fix before your reply, but you've made it clear that the solution is not uncontroversial like I imagined it was, so I don't think it'll be going back in.

If I'm wrong and the community reaches a consensus eventually, someone on the CDT can address the problem at that time.

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Do nothing.
Although I don't mind either of the fixes, I've always upgraded my Chickens to 6 SpS becasue it looks nice and consistent with other pets.
I don't care about 'nickle & diming' what 17-19 more DPS out of my Chickens. So ehhh...

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