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Nigiri_Toro

Balance Dryad: Nerf Vicious Strikes

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Yes Simon, let's do the overhaul.  I see how you'd take it as, "if you don't know how to play the Dryad then...."  I'm not for nerfs after a function has been allowable for over a certain period of time.  I was in deep game-changing debate with a team about three years ago where players were calling for a nerf.  First, I ask why nerfs are ever called for?  This is the question....Why does someone EVER want to take the time to post for a nerf?  I asked a series of questions in regards to this with your post Simon, and you took a point of inference to mean I was saying that you didn't know how to play the Dryad.

If I'm complimenting you on your Mastery gameplay, and telling you how awesome you were, then how could you deduce that I was suggesting that you didn't know how to play the Dryad?

I'm looking for logic here people.  Someone answer me, why do people desire nerfs on shards and heroes?  Let them be or use them.  I was saying that there should be an overhaul, SImon, not a nerf....

HAVE A VOTE:  do you realize how much more exciting the game would become if you changed out a voted tower from each hero, and if votes are split on a hero, no change need.

Example: Squire - Training Dummy - swapped out for an effective trap/tower for the mutators.

EV2 - Buff Beam - swapped out for an effective trap/tower for the mutators.

Abyss Lord - doh!  all of his towers are awesome.  Throw down Colossus in the Temple on those beast lanes.  I don't like giving away strats...skeletal orcs are amazing with Automation, so here lies the delemma. 

Have a vote on which "x amount of heroes" should be overhauled, because hey, the existing heroes need a bit of an overhaul vs a new hero, even though....man vs machine sounds like an amazing builder. 


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@uzar quote:

I don't think it says anywhere zerkers are immune to slow , i think it says resistant to slow I may be mistaken. Proton beams , frosty towers can freeze them to. There are immune to slow lanes in onslaught.

If it says resistant or immune, that´s just splitting hairs. The fact is that it´s immune to any other slow than the slimes slow... (ok some environmental traps work too)

Yeah I´m not talking about freezing which is good, but if I could choose I would much rather have 50% slow to Berzerkers on the protons, than gamble on it freezing them.

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The the maps are breaking the rules to then , these traps almost stop them dead in the tracks , i think they are also on Necropolis map to. I use those traps all the time

@MaverickHunter77 quote:

The Dead Road web environment traps also slow berserkers to a crawl, but maybe environment traps get some kind of priority.


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I think some have missed the overall question. Does the Dryad continue by design to be a solo playable hero? If so keep the oil , remove the slow or make zerkers truly immune to slow , even map trap slows. 

If not a solo playable hero then corrupt form has to go and complete rework of her is in order.

Really that is what it comes down to. Even solo play i still put a cannon or ramster at the end of a zerker lane as i don't trust them ever.

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@ArchaicLotus quote:

HAVE A VOTE:  do you realize how much more exciting the game would become if you changed out a voted tower from each hero, and if votes are split on a hero, no change need.

That's brilliant! And we maybe should have a vote on whether the dryad nerf should happen? 

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This just reminds me how horrible the game is at explaining various descriptions of monsters and game mechanics. It´s mostly "figure it out yourself";) It is pretty funny that I didn´t even know slimes affected Berzerkers, and I´ve been around for some time...

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:

if lady orcs are supposed to be immune to oil they shouldnt be in control burn lanes

Immune to slow != immune to oil.

That's probably where the inconsistency is coming from. I don't think I'm imagining it since so many other players seem to remember it being brought up... But zerkers ARE supposed to be immune to slows. But they're fine in controlled burn lanes so long as the oil itself is applied.

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Dryad is definitely too flexible and powerful builder compared to other heroes atm.

But it is also kinda boring being forced to always be in corrupt form to truly utilize her power.

I think it would be better if corruption form affected only her abilities, while defense related buffs (third bee, oily slow, etc) became shards.

Not exactly a nerf, but more of a qol change.

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Again by design whether on purpose or not the Dryad is a solo-able hero unlike any other hero. If you want to play with a Gun witch or Barbarian then you can't use a Dryad thats the trade off.

You cant just play a Barbarian or Gunwitch without the use of other heroes , that's they way they where designed.

Moving them to shards is  great and it goes to the point then the dryad is no longer a solo hero and needs a tree for her defenses so we go back to just use a ramster.

The question is still the same is the Dryad meant to be a solo hero or not?

@enigma007 quote:

Dryad is definitely too flexible and powerful builder compared to other heroes atm.

But it is also kinda boring being forced to always be in corrupt form to truly utilize her power.

I think it would be better if corruption form affected only her abilities, while defense related buffs (third bee, oily slow, etc) became shards.

Not exactly a nerf, but more of a qol change.


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@xArcAngel quote:
@Nigiri_Toro quote:

if lady orcs are supposed to be immune to oil they shouldnt be in control burn lanes

Immune to slow != immune to oil.

That's probably where the inconsistency is coming from. I don't think I'm imagining it since so many other players seem to remember it being brought up... But zerkers ARE supposed to be immune to slows. But they're fine in controlled burn lanes so long as the oil itself is applied.

I agree with this completely. Debuff applies but slow immune. Need to test in game if huntress oil flask can slow lady orcs now. 

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She is immune to other sources of slow: Frosty Towers can't target her, she isn't slowed by Oil Geysers, protons don't slow her, Boost Aura with Boosted Grasp doesn't slow her, Powder Toss doesn't slow her. Slimes slowing her is most likely a bug.

@uzar quote:

I don't think it says anywhere zerkers are immune to slow , i think it says resistant to slow I may be mistaken. Proton beams , frosty towers can freeze them to. There are immune to slow lanes in onslaught.

MaJean she is incredibly samey and boring, that's why although I have her, I haven't used her since BARBARIAN

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@xArcAngel quote:

Lot of good points made in this thread on the balance, so won't touch that... but one thing I never understood, is why is being able to AFK the game seen as the worst thing in the world?

Why should "good" strategies NOT be rewarded with an AFK run? Why do you expect floors 10-50 to be hard, when you have the ability to go to floor 200+ for a real challenge? I get that "good" builds aren't that hard to make, let alone copy, with this games skill floor and ceiling being so close in that regard... But I just don't get the hatred for the tower defense aspect so many have.

Simply put, I don't think there is a sane balance point where those horrible, abominable AFK runs don't exist. Either the game is easy enough that the people who understand and grind the game a lot will find a way to at least semi-AFK (following which, people imitate it and it becomes the meta, cause people be naturally sheeple), or the game becomes too hard for the majority of the players, and people just get stuck miserably being unable to progress (i.e. the trap meta era).

So can someone help me understand why being able to AFK through a lot of the redundant content that is the ancient power system is so bad? Especially when its a reward for building "properly"?

I think that some people feel that if something can be AFK'd then it must be devoid of challenge and/or thought. I know that some devs don't like that people AFK or want to AFK. I'd like to understand fully what their ideal vision of gameplay is. I cannot picture it. I've seen how this game is played from numerous people and AFK is an aspect that is shared with every playstyle. Maybe they just want you to personally participate in lanes for each combat phase but there is no way to force that playstyle. Trying to force it ends up like the trap meta era. Trying to force it ends up with hard-counters galore. Trying to force it means that they are scared of players actually playing the game.

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There are people talking like onslaught is broken due to the Dryad getting an easy run but if you look at the leaderboards you can see that hardly anybody is playing onslaught.  So I don't see how making onslaught more difficult by reducing the dryad effectiveness fixes anything except for a few bored elite players.  We need to make onslaught more appealing, not less.

Feels to me that onslaught needs less of the hard counter mobs that force players into a smaller solution set which is why we are leaning on the dryad so much.   If we eliminated or softened cyborgs and geodes for example then I'm sure dryad usage would decrease and player satisfaction increase.   

As has been frequently pointed out, the dryad isn't that much fun to play, especially if you are stuck in corrupt form and conserving mana levels the whole game so I'm sure people would love the chance to play less dryad.



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For some reason, reading this whole thing reminded me of a coworker that passed/declined a pay raise twice at work. No extra or more work included, just a pay raise.

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i say make the Dyrad tree aura as big as it is with VS and DS with no shards so I can use VS on my ramsters Emoji_AbyssLord.png . i believe this was mentioned way before mastery mode when we had a post up on Dyrad changes .  the base aura area is as ridiculous as the flame thrower range . I imagine most of these new players doing lower floors will give up before even hitting floor 65. 

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Unless it increased his taxes and would leave him worse off. 

@chickendude33 quote:

For some reason, reading this whole thing reminded me of a coworker that passed/declined a pay raise twice at work. No extra or more work included, just a pay raise.


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@enigma007 quote:

Dryad is definitely too flexible and powerful builder compared to other heroes atm.

But it is also kinda boring being forced to always be in corrupt form to truly utilize her power.

I think it would be better if corruption form affected only her abilities, while defense related buffs (third bee, oily slow, etc) became shards.

Not exactly a nerf, but more of a qol change.

I gotta admit, that might be a good idea. I've never fully experience the Gunwitch yet but for efficiency I gotta use the Dryad, so, yeah, it would be cool if the happens

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@ArchaicLotus quote:

A football season wasn't created to be smashed like Peyton Manning did a couple of years back.  The 100 meter dash wasn't created so that Usain Bolt could run a nearly impossible time to beat.  Roger Federer was not supposed to reach world rank #1 again.  There are people who will exceed the expectation of what is considered a limitation.  I've done this with two other games, and I am doing it now.  Just because there are a small handful of people who are able to do something that was not expected, you don't lash out at the whole due to it.

I don´t really care about this thread anymore, but I must admit this section stood out for me. Is this comparison for real? Are you really comparing yourself to world class athletes?  No wait, don´t answer. I´ve gotten this off my chest now, and that´s all I wanted. Cheers.

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In a public forum where so many people have a hard time understanding topic, you have to go to extremes to help a matter of subject become understandable. It's a scenario-based comparison, not a 'I'm just like these people so pay attention' matter.

Yes, cheers 

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@ArchaicLotus quote:

In a public forum where so many people have a hard time understanding topic, you have to go to extremes to help a matter of subject become understandable. It's a scenario-based comparison, not a 'I'm just like these people so pay attention' matter.

Yes, cheers 

LOL, i tend to do the same thing when making points. Use extremes when making a point to show how it works or not. if it does not work for the extreme cases, then it does not work at all. Not always applicable in all situations, but i empathize with how you were trying to communicate there. 

That being said - given the comparisons made, its understandable someone called it out, ha ha ha. Whatev, we are digressing away from the subject and over analyzing how it was delivered, so....moving on.... Sharkman_insane.png

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It was a matter of records are made and records are broken. Someone had posted that Trendy did not intend for people to make it on the floor that I'm on without having prestiged. Bringing it back around, I was talking about the difficulty of the floors that I'm on so that people don't keep getting bent out of shape in desiring changes based off of where they are now, not the fact that the whole point of this game is to have fun and progress

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@ArchaicLotus quote:

 the whole point of this game is to have fun and progress

That - right there. Exactly. We all may just differ on our views about how to do so - but all i have ever wanted from DD2 is to have fun. 

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I think there's one thing we can all agree on..

rather than crying and crying and crying for trendy to nerf X meta and Y meta simply because It's more viable than other heroes, and having trendy derail from their primary coding objectives to tweak a classes arsenal, it would be much better if everyone just stopped whining, stopped pushing trendy to waste time nerfing the current top meta because its the best, and allowed them to focus on more important matters, such as ancient power, disconnects, bugs, etc. 


Just because something works, whether that be on par or slightly above other strategies, does not mean it needs to be nerfed. This game is meant to be fun, and nerfing everything to the ground is the exact opposite of that. I couldn't care less if one hero is better than another. in DD1, nobody was screaming nerf monk auras, or nerf ev buff beams, or summoner MU, just because it was the meta. Yet for some reason in this game we have a bunch of people getting butthurt because one hero exceeds at what it does. However, i do agree in the fact that there should be multiple metas available to run just to mix things up as the content currently is rather bland and repetitive. Ancient power needs a rework more than dryad, let's be honest.


Seriously, next it'll be nerf ramsters, nerf flame auras, lightning auras, its always something has to be nerfed in this game. Because of mutators and chaos enemies we already are limited to what we can use that works, what we don't need is even less viable counters to that. 

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