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[GB] n0ught

Dungeon Defenders Lag

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So I think we have all experienced the lag on Moonbase.

I think this should be fixed, since it's been out for a long time, I'm assuming there's a reason why.

Also, is there a reason why you can't just increase the health of standard mobs?

Another thing which you may want to look into is just a quality-of-life thing - when you go to upgrade or repair and you press the hotkey, it seems to do some kind of network check because there's a significant lag between button press and action on laggy maps like Moonbase


<3

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@[GB] n0ught quote:

So I think we have all experienced the lag on Moonbase.

I think this should be fixed, since it's been out for a long time, I'm assuming there's a reason why.

Also, is there a reason why you can't just increase the health of standard mobs?

Another thing which you may want to look into is just a quality-of-life thing - when you go to upgrade or repair and you press the hotkey, it seems to do some kind of network check because there's a significant lag between button press and action on laggy maps like Moonbase


<3

the reason people do moobase survival is amount of mobs so condensing them would ruin the survival

the lag part shouldnt be a thing if your hosting

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I made some optimizations in Update 3, and I have some more ready for Update 4.

However, the core problem is that Moonbase NMHC survival can get over 500 monsters at once.  The simultaneous monster limit on this map is 155, but monsters that are spawned at evenly spaced intervals do not count toward this limit (and neither do mage skeletons), and on Moonbase a lot of spawns are evenly spaced.  That's why Moonbase is so ridiculously fast (like 70 minutes for waves 18–35) but also why it's hard (a huge number of djinn pouring out at once with hundreds of other enemies your LTs can't hit because of limited chain length) and also why the FPS drops so low.

On Mix Mode this no longer applies because the spawners are no longer evenly spaced, so it's properly limited to 155 (plus mage skeletons), which makes Mix Mode easier, slower, and better FPS.  If I limit Moonbase NMHC to 155 monsters at once, it becomes very much like mix mode: easier, slower, and better FPS.

So fixing Moonbase NMHC would probably involving nerfing the map severely, and I don't think the community really wants a nerf to the meta armor farm.  We can't make changes that the community doesn't want, so for the time being I'm focusing on other sorts of optimizations without addressing the core problem.

Another major problem is that I can only optimize Lightning Towers so much without changing their behavior.  They take a wildly varying amount of time to chain, which leads to FPS jumping up and down, and unless someone comes up with a creative solution, then to some extent we're stuck with that if we want LTs to keep doing what they're doing.

The biggest optimizations I've done are:

 ・ Optimized the mana token code (the 8.2 update made mana token generation horribly inefficient)
 ・ Getting rid of needless sqrt calls (mostly replacing VSize and VSize2D with VSizeSq and VSizeSq2D wherever possible)
 ・ Making lightning towers stop checking if they should chain dead enemies over and over (the answer was always no)
 ・ Rewrote some Lightning Tower code to avoid unnecessarily complex loops
 ・ Removing the host-only volume check outside taverns (it was checking every volume on every map for every item dropped)

I think people will see sizeable improvements, but that depends on their hardware, build, stats and so on, so I can't say for sure.  Moonbase is significantly better for me in DDDK but still not good; we'll have to see whether that translates into significant improvements for the player base when we get into beta.  A lot of the optimizations will apply to other maps as well, so for example on Temple o' Love hopefully FPS won't get as bad for players.


@[GB] n0ught quote:Also, is there a reason why you can't just increase the health of standard mobs?
No, but no one's asked for this and there is no reason I can think of why the community would want this change.

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Thanks for the extensive reply, what I meant by that last bit was to have dynamic health based on the difficulty of the level. So is it possible to simply reduce the number of mobs and increase the health on specific maps?

@Plane quote:

I made some optimizations in Update 3, and I have some more ready for Update 4.

However, the core problem is that Moonbase NMHC survival can get over 500 monsters at once.  The simultaneous monster limit on this map is 155, but monsters that are spawned at evenly spaced intervals do not count toward this limit (and neither do mage skeletons), and on Moonbase a lot of spawns are evenly spaced.  That's why Moonbase is so ridiculously fast (like 70 minutes for waves 18–35) but also why it's hard (a huge number of djinn pouring out at once with hundreds of other enemies your LTs can't hit because of limited chain length) and also why the FPS drops so low.

On Mix Mode this no longer applies because the spawners are no longer evenly spaced, so it's properly limited to 155 (plus mage skeletons), which makes Mix Mode easier, slower, and better FPS.  If I limit Moonbase NMHC to 155 monsters at once, it becomes very much like mix mode: easier, slower, and better FPS.

So fixing Moonbase NMHC would probably involving nerfing the map severely, and I don't think the community really wants a nerf to the meta armor farm.  We can't make changes that the community doesn't want, so for the time being I'm focusing on other sorts of optimizations without addressing the core problem.

Another major problem is that I can only optimize Lightning Towers so much without changing their behavior.  They take a wildly varying amount of time to chain, which leads to FPS jumping up and down, and unless someone comes up with a creative solution, then to some extent we're stuck with that if we want LTs to keep doing what they're doing.

The biggest optimizations I've done are:

 ・ Optimized the mana token code (the 8.2 update made mana token generation horribly inefficient)
 ・ Getting rid of needless sqrt calls (mostly replacing VSize and VSize2D with VSizeSq and VSizeSq2D wherever possible)
 ・ Making lightning towers stop checking if they should chain dead enemies over and over (the answer was always no)
 ・ Rewrote some Lightning Tower code to avoid unnecessarily complex loops
 ・ Removing the host-only volume check outside taverns (it was checking every volume on every map for every item dropped)

I think people will see sizeable improvements, but that depends on their hardware, build, stats and so on, so I can't say for sure.  Moonbase is significantly better for me in DDDK but still not good; we'll have to see whether that translates into significant improvements for the player base when we get into beta.  A lot of the optimizations will apply to other maps as well, so for example on Temple o' Love hopefully FPS won't get as bad for players.


@[GB] n0ught quote:Also, is there a reason why you can't just increase the health of standard mobs?
No, but no one's asked for this and there is no reason I can think of why the community would want this change.


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@[GB] n0ught quote:

Thanks for the extensive reply, what I meant by that last bit was to have dynamic health based on the difficulty of the level. So is it possible to simply reduce the number of mobs and increase the health on specific maps?

Possible perhaps, but most likely won't be supported by community. For maps like mb, we want more mobs since it means more drops.

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Ok. that makes sense, I just think there's got to be a way to adjust the visible problems without changing the gameplay

@jyutta quote:


@[GB] n0ught quote:

Thanks for the extensive reply, what I meant by that last bit was to have dynamic health based on the difficulty of the level. So is it possible to simply reduce the number of mobs and increase the health on specific maps?

Possible perhaps, but most likely won't be supported by community. For maps like mb, we want more mobs since it means more drops.


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