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Succ the Fabled

The problem with Trials/Incursions ennemies and Onslaught

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there are some weird things going on in the game at the moment . i was just watching phased enemies run against a tree and not passing through it . sounds silly , i mentioned this in another post , the mananode makes farting noises sometimes right before he vanishes. I have also seen bosses walking in the air on nimbus reach one of them passed through the map and died. 

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I leave and comeback often and I've been fairly critical of Trendy for similar reasons as Jaws states. There is a huge potential to open this game up big time(and I would argue also make money) to "casual" or normal players without eliminating the challenge completely or causing too many "hardcores" to leave(some always will go).

I was gone the last month or two as one of my major complaints was the inventory system,  the totally confusing gear upgrades which I won't hyjack this thread for(but even as a chaos7 player before Onslaught I could not figure the gear system out. Someone helped me and I gained about 3k in stats within hours. I guess that's what I get for not reading wiki's and long forum posts). So maybe I am an idiot but those kind of things push off new players. Most games are lucky if 50% of the players read, write, and care about the forums. The new system, while I have not tested yet, seems much better for managing gear and even makes the pain of Prestige a little more manageable. So thumbs up in my opinion on a problem that has existed for a long time.


Back to towers though, Jaws complaint and as others stated here, is just that there is little option for variety and creativity with the current hard counter thing. The *IDEA* behind an anti-trap/anti-project/anti-CC is fine, but the hard block nature of it, in reality when playing the game, just artificially limits what towers most people use. 

Geodes should absorb/block a % of damage, not reflect all of it.

Cyborks should create an aura that reduces trap dmg by a %, not totally disable. The only reason this one isn't talked about more is because unlike with Geodes some "creative" placement and/or range can make this moot. I'm not a huge fan of this stuff though as it just seems like a stupid workaround and again, alienates new players.

Beserkers should resists a % of CC(not chance, but effect. So slows/stuns/etc are less effective, not completely ineffective).


All of the above just makes much more sense to new players, does not hurt the endgame/hardcore crowd, and opens up far more tower options.

If you are new to an area or even a hardcore player and struggling with enemy X you can still use the "optimal" strategies people use today to deal with the above in the most effective manner. But if you don't care or vastly overpower a level you can use whatever you want. 


Everyone talks about buffing or debuffing towers or how a certain class is OP(which it often can be), but in reality if you just did the above you'd see instant diversity of towers and options for people once the numbers are tweaked a little bit.

As others have stated, while some people with very strong towers share their stories of using projectiles in Geode lanes or whatever, the vast majority of people simply do not use projectiles because between Geodes and Shield Gobs, along with the previous gear/shard hassle, it was always more effective to massively buff a single AoE tower(which has no weakness) and use that. 

Right now it's not about tweaking individual tower numbers, that can always be done, it's about not eliminating entire sets of towers as creative possibilities for the vast majority of people and helping to create an environment where new people want to join AND stay.

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@rangoth quote:

Right now it's not about tweaking individual tower numbers, that can always be done, it's about not eliminating entire sets of towers as creative possibilities for the vast majority of people and helping to create an environment where new people want to join AND stay.

Well said. This last paragraph sums it all up really nice. Why have all the options if you cannot use them, right? 

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@rangoth quote:

Everyone talks about buffing or debuffing towers or how a certain class is OP(which it often can be), but in reality if you just did the above you'd see instant diversity of towers and options for people once the numbers are tweaked a little bit.

As others have stated, while some people with very strong towers share their stories of using projectiles in Geode lanes or whatever, the vast majority of people simply do not use projectiles because between Geodes and Shield Gobs, along with the previous gear/shard hassle, it was always more effective to massively buff a single AoE tower(which has no weakness) and use that. 

Right now it's not about tweaking individual tower numbers, that can always be done, it's about not eliminating entire sets of towers as creative possibilities for the vast majority of people and helping to create an environment where new people want to join AND stay.

So much this.

A ton of defenses are actually quite powerful but in the state of the game versatility trumps all. For example, explosive traps absolutely nuke enemies but are completely invalidated in a lane with cyborks. Another example, I often call ballistas nuke-poons because they are capable of quite insane hits, but you need to place them in optimal angles and well Vanguards and Geodes exist. In both these cases you could just use bees or ramsters. They will do a little less work but do not face any counters and will work in any lane (except CB if by themselves). Why go through any of the effort it takes to use something else when you could just place something just as good but with no hassle?

This only worsens when you consider that Ancient Power encourages you to use as little as possible to lessen upgrade costs. Now now of course players always have the choice to use other things but it cannot be denied that the game strongly encourages you to NOT spice it up. You are essentially wasting money and time.

Eliminate these arbitrary limits (because that is really what they are) and I guarantee that a whole lot more defenses will be used. Freedom has nothing to do with difficulty. The characteristic of challenge that players want isn't such a blatant limitation, it's to be given circumstances that make them consider the options available to them. It's about giving players tools and then situations where those tools are useful. 

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@BeerGoggles quote:

I basically use the same things, except no nimbus. I will also use reflect for ever hex lane and possibly "throwers" if it's concerning

@direnels quote:

 onslaught has me down to ramsters , hornets , nimbus , slimes , PDT and SGT. really wish geodes would just absorb like so many people suggest . 


Me too, though I would add Hailstorm, Cannonballs, Obelisk and Colossus, to the my list. Less frequent are Snaking Sands (destructive pylon), Sand Viper, Flame Aura and LSA.  

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@Succ the Fabled quote:


@Plasma quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Although I do like the challenges in Onslaught, it does get tedious at times (using the same defenses again and again - I'm on 109 now). So....

Definitely agree. Just buff the other heroes till they're viable. Doesn't matter if the "Hardcores" complains. If the mass wants the fun factor, then it's check. Period.

But but even if everything is viable you'll just use one defense or strategy repeatedly :smirk:

In a perfect world where all the defenses were all as viable, I'd use them all!

Exactly! In PVZ or PVZ 2 sometimes I would like to try using other types of stategy, but alas, the PVZ series is kinda notorious for it's Hard Counters and it's efficient strategies. Although that's kinda why I still like the game ;)

While PvZ is also a tower defense game, DD2 is another type of Tower defense game, no same formula works on all games I suppose.

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@Lagmonster quote:

Hehe i must be the only crazy one out there using boost auras ;) 

I like using them. For the slow factor alone, they can be very useful, as well as boosting barricade stats. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:
@Lagmonster quote:

Hehe i must be the only crazy one out there using boost auras ;) 

I like using them. For the slow factor alone, they can be very useful, as well as boosting barricade stats. 

They are definitely nice to use in C7.

 But when you start to climb the Onslaught floors past 55, I really start to doubt the viability of it. But then, I couldn't be sure as I didn't really experiment with it as I am currently a "victim" of the Dryad meta.

Maybe Exglint would know as he/she (sorry not gonna assume) climbs floors without using dryad defenses.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

They are definitely nice to use in C7.

 But when you start to climb the Onslaught floors past 55, I really start to doubt the viability of it. But then, I couldn't be sure as I didn't really experiment with it as I am currently a "victim" of the Dryad meta.

Maybe Exglint would know as he/she (sorry not gonna assume) climbs floors without using dryad defenses.

Oh, i hear you on that. For me, it is always something i only ever put down if i have extra DU to play with. It is never a primary build. I only whip it out when there is more than 1 schedule spawning from a single lane, so i place a trio of FA's down and plop the Boost right in the middle of all 3. If we had more DU per stage, i suspect i would use it way more often. 

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:
@Lagmonster quote:

Hehe i must be the only crazy one out there using boost auras ;) 

I like using them. For the slow factor alone, they can be very useful, as well as boosting barricade stats. 

They are definitely nice to use in C7.

 But when you start to climb the Onslaught floors past 55, I really start to doubt the viability of it. But then, I couldn't be sure as I didn't really experiment with it as I am currently a "victim" of the Dryad meta.

Maybe Exglint would know as he/she (sorry not gonna assume) climbs floors without using dryad defenses.

5 Proton nodes in a line, 1 sand trap in front of the 3rd node, BA behind the 2nd node and BA front of the 4th node, Frosty tower off to the side if the 3rd node = Game Ogre lane that moves slower than dirt. My go to lane setup on Game Ogre and its only problem is if they are Yeti for it Kappa. But yeti can be stun locked by a hero and the proton will help take him out. Other than that I do use it in some other places if I have the extra DU and there are no cyborcs or cursi-kaze.

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@Exglint quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:
@Lagmonster quote:

Hehe i must be the only crazy one out there using boost auras ;) 

I like using them. For the slow factor alone, they can be very useful, as well as boosting barricade stats. 

They are definitely nice to use in C7.

 But when you start to climb the Onslaught floors past 55, I really start to doubt the viability of it. But then, I couldn't be sure as I didn't really experiment with it as I am currently a "victim" of the Dryad meta.

Maybe Exglint would know as he/she (sorry not gonna assume) climbs floors without using dryad defenses.

5 Proton nodes in a line, 1 sand trap in front of the 3rd node, BA behind the 2nd node and BA front of the 4th node, Frosty tower off to the side if the 3rd node = Game Ogre lane that moves slower than dirt. My go to lane setup on Game Ogre and its only problem is if they are Yeti for it Kappa. But yeti can be stun locked by a hero and the proton will help take him out. Other than that I do use it in some other places if I have the extra DU and there are no cyborcs or cursi-kaze.

Nice. Is rippling explosions included or you just use deadly, boosted grasp and the shard that increases boosting by a certain percent?

My normal solution for yeti is building Reflect Beams so that the snowball of death bounces away.

Thanks for the answer though!

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@xArcAngel quote:

I kinda feel like this is most utility defenses...

agreed. If we boosted DU on almost all stages, i think the creativity in our builds would go up dramatically, and many of the issues we cry about needed buffed or nerfed would go away. Same goes with shard space on relics - you are only allowed 3, so you have to go with range/rate/power/HP. All the fluffy fun stuff gets left out as you cannot afford to use it. 

I really hope TE finds a way to make utility towers and shards more realistically usable. Right now it's like a really mean tease. It's here...but you cannot use it, ha ha ha....grrrrr......Emoji_TNT.png

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Nice. Is rippling explosions included or you just use deadly, boosted grasp and the shard that increases boosting by a certain percent?

My normal solution for yeti is building Reflect Beams so that the snowball of death bounces away.

Thanks for the answer though!

I use Deadly Strikes, Boosted Grasp and Rippling Explosions. Tbh I just threw rippling in there because I had it laying around and an open shard slot and I didn't really know what else to use since I didnt really care for the boosting part of it

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Nice. Is rippling explosions included or you just use deadly, boosted grasp and the shard that increases boosting by a certain percent?

My normal solution for yeti is building Reflect Beams so that the snowball of death bounces away.

Thanks for the answer though!

I had no idea the RB worked on the snowballs....so good to know. Thank you!!!! 

I find it odd that after you go through all 7 chaos tiers, that even more new enemies are introduced in Onslaught and you are not given the same time to learn who they are, how they work, and how to counter them. Just another reason why this game needs an in-game Encyclopedia SO BAD. 

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@Exglint quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Nice. Is rippling explosions included or you just use deadly, boosted grasp and the shard that increases boosting by a certain percent?

My normal solution for yeti is building Reflect Beams so that the snowball of death bounces away.

Thanks for the answer though!

I use Deadly Strikes, Boosted Grasp and Rippling Explosions. Tbh I just threw rippling in there because I had it laying around and an open shard slot and I didn't really know what else to use since I didnt really care for the boosting part of it

I see. Yeah...me too. Used rippling during my C7 gameplays before onslaught or mastery came out due to my fond memories of "Purge Evil" in the NM4 days.

I agree boosting just sucks right now. Maybe change the Initiate's Flame Aura into boost aura and revert the "boost aura "into the Serenity Aura, things might be different. 

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They spawn 6 Yeti (I think) in the incursion and on top of that each wave they give a small description each wave about the new enemy in there.

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@Exglint quote:

They spawn 6 Yeti (I think) in the incursion and on top of that each wave they give a small description each wave about the new enemy in there.

Where is the description and what does it say? I am curious. That is the only Incur map i have not played yet. Going to have to fire that one up tonight now i think. 

I have yet to see any instructions in any other Incursion maps tho. I am still trying to figure out how to do that darn DA one from C5, and after playing the C4 cleansing map like 5 times, i have only now figured out how to actually cleanse something. I get so frustrated with Incursion maps. They have VERY specific requirements, but they don't tell you what that is and it changes on each map. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Nice. Is rippling explosions included or you just use deadly, boosted grasp and the shard that increases boosting by a certain percent?

My normal solution for yeti is building Reflect Beams so that the snowball of death bounces away.

Thanks for the answer though!

I had no idea the RB worked on the snowballs....so good to know. Thank you!!!! 

I find it odd that after you go through all 7 chaos tiers, that even more new enemies are introduced in Onslaught and you are not given the same time to learn who they are, how they work, and how to counter them. Just another reason why this game needs an in-game Encyclopedia SO BAD. 

Or a Dungeon Almanac! Eh? Eh? ;)

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@Jaws_420 quote:
@Exglint quote:

They spawn 6 Yeti (I think) in the incursion and on top of that each wave they give a small description each wave about the new enemy in there.

Where is the description and what does it say? I am curious. That is the only Incur map i have not played yet. Going to have to fire that one up tonight now i think. 

I have yet to see any instructions in any other Incursion maps tho. I am still trying to figure out how to do that darn DA one from C5, and after playing the C4 cleansing map like 5 times, i have only now figured out how to actually cleanse something. I get so frustrated with Incursion maps. They have VERY specific requirements, but they don't tell you what that is and it changes on each map. 

Its been a while since i last played it but its to the left of the middle of the screen somewhere around the chat box. They give little hints like "Frost Gobu (Sword ones) chill when they attack", just simple little things about them. I don't believe it says anything about Yeti but with 6 of them in map you can play around with them.

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@Exglint quote:

Its been a while since i last played it but its to the left of the middle of the screen somewhere around the chat box. They give little hints like "Frost Gobu (Sword ones) chill when they attack", just simple little things about them. I don't believe it says anything about Yeti but with 6 of them in map you can play around with them.

Thanks. I will check it out tonight for sure. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:

agreed. If we boosted DU on almost all stages, i think the creativity in our builds would go up dramatically, and many of the issues we cry about needed buffed or nerfed would go away. Same goes with shard space on relics - you are only allowed 3, so you have to go with range/rate/power/HP. All the fluffy fun stuff gets left out as you cannot afford to use it. 

Now they've changed the layout and the way that shards add to defences instead of relics, it's probably not that difficult to add more shard spots to defences.  It would be too much power creep to have this available too early in the game but could be nice if a special upgrade item drops post floor 60 that you can use to unlock an extra shard spot.  

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@Kruntski quote:

Now they've changed the layout and the way that shards add to defences instead of relics, it's probably not that difficult to add more shard spots to defences.  It would be too much power creep to have this available too early in the game but could be nice if a special upgrade item drops post floor 60 that you can use to unlock an extra shard spot.  

I like that. Could be our version of C8 gear, so to speak. It does not go up in value or GS, but we get another slot. That is something i would grind to achieve, but not reset for though unless it applied to all relics at once. 

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